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If your fighting it pro se, you have little chance because while the state has the burden of proof, you still need to know how to cross examine the cop properly. It’s not easy, especially when you have no idea what you are doing and the judge is hurrying you along because the courtroom is packed and he has to get to all the cases before lunch. I’ve handled a lot of these cases for friends and co-workers and getting in touch with the prosecutor to make a deal is always step number 1. If they don’t want to deal, get a lawyer.
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My one and only ticket was 65 in a 50, written for 58 in a 50 (59 wouldve doubled the fine)
Had option of traffic scool and 0 points when I paid online via county tax office. Had spam for traffic school before I even finished paying but that is a different matter ... |
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Our traffic attorneys will never even attempt to cross examine an officer on the stand. They know if it goes that far they have already lost before the trial even begins. The deck is that heavily stacked. Attorneys have no chance - lay people are simply cannon fodder. If a traffic attorney in this state sees that it is going to trial, because the officer actually waded through the paperwork successfully, they will plea bargain with the DA to a monetarily equivalent non-moving violation. Lay people that try to do this will never even get a meeting with the DA. They are not a dues paying member of "the club". Again, and I stress - this is here in Washington. Other states vary. It pays to learn how your state operates. |
When I was in England, Waze notified me about speed cameras.
I am going to make some calls today. The thing that bugs me most about this is if I don't act now with the good advice above, I could explain the circumstances as time of day and 30 leading to 40 during the zoom session and that I'd be happy to plead a non-moving violation and pay the $145, but there is a very real chance they could still just say screw you and find me guilty of the moving violation. If that were to happen, and it could, I wonder how bad it would be for me if I asked them if they too have to get someone at Target to open a case to buy toothpaste and laundry detergent because of theft. Apparently expensive toothpaste is a big theft object. I don't know how you steal a gallon of Tide though. |
Good luck Shaun! Here .... they just want your $, and make it really easy (for most of us) to "go it alone" .... cops will even tell you how as they hand you the ticket ... btdt several times. Don't know how it is there .... but contacting a local atty who handles these types of cases might be "the best way" too...
I'm just glad I don't live where Higgins does ... when driving :D. |
Dont wait for the zoom call, call the court and ask for the prosecutor's # and call him/ her. What I have done in NY as an attorney is here in NY so listen to Jeff as well. I dont know how your state works but first thing I would do is call that prosecutor TODAY and try to work it out. If you wait until the hearing, the cop is likely there and spent time preparing and is ready to go. Unless the copy knows his case is flawed, your gonna lose.
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I have a PhD in Traffic Science from all the traffic school I attended. In the old days it was either a few week nights on an all day Saturday in a class. That hurt.
Once I got a speeding ticket in Mammoth Lakes after skiing when I lived in Westwood. Back then you could get tickets in different counties and they weren't centrally tracked by the state. I called the court clerk and asked if they had traffic school. She said yes, but I had to ask the judge. Up and back almost 200 miles each way and the judge said yes. To be safe, I took the all day Saturday class up there, so another nearly 400 mile day on top of class. Got another speeding ticket 20 minutes away from home on the way back. |
Called district court, ended up calling and leaving a message with the ticketing town's police prosecutor. Cops no longer show up, they just have one guy that goes to these things and the magistrate decides guilt/innocence. So I expect to call again and talk with him this afternoon, explain the circumstances and ask for a non-moving violation deal.
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No cops? Wow. Prosecutions only witness doesnt have to appear. Nice due process you got there. geez
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Whatever happened to the right to meet one's accuser in court? As bad as things have gotten here in Washington, at least that is still a requirement.
Kind of a tangent here, but relative to the steady de-evolution of our justice system, in this context with regards to traffic enforcement. The accusing officer doesn't even have to show up in your state. The accusing officer in my state need provide no evidence whatsoever, just his statement that you were speeding. In neither state (I assume in yours, I know for sure in mine) are we afforded a jury trial. How, why, have we allowed this to happen? One of the very bedrock cornerstones of our Republic is the notion that if any agent of the government, at any level, accuses a citizen of wrongdoing, at any level, that agent must then prove guilt not to government agents, but before a jury of our peers. Not theirs. Somewhere along the way, at least insofar as traffic citations, we have given that up. I, for one, believe we should endeavor to regain that right of citizenship. Jury trial or no trial for any and all instances wherein the government is the accuser. "Beyond reasonable doubt" in all cases wherein the citizen stands accused by the government. But, alas, I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness. So many seem so willing to give up the fight. *Sigh* Sorry for the hijack, Shaun. |
The "red light cameras" here (long removed) were a private company deciding and pocketing 90% of the "civil citation" .... I just told 'em ... I ain't paying jack .... just a pic of the back of my van going through a VERY short yellow light .... imagine that. No day in court, no recourse .... nothing .... just $$$.
Used to be a LEO had to witness an infraction .... not on I-95 south of Savannah.... one cop with a radar gun .... 30 LEOs writing tickets for something they never witnessed. Whew .... did that brief pucker a few times .... just glad they didn't have 50 :(. |
Yeah, Traffic Solutions Inc. outa Arizona, I believe. We still have their cameras all over Washington. The difference here, though, is that as long as we enter the intersection under yellow we are legal. There has never been any incentive for them to shorten yellow light times, as they have in other states where one must clear the intersection before it turns red. If memory serves, they have lost a number of lawsuits over shortened yellow light intervals.
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If I can't get ahold of the police prosecutor on Monday I'll hire a lawyer. Left a message yesterday around lunchtime and said I'll call back to avoid phone tag. Called at 2:30ish and just got voicemail, didn't leave a message. |
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But yeah, a laser jammer would be nice to have. Fortunately, out in the country, I almost never see laser. I only see that in town where there's more traffic and they need something more precise. |
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And I know that there were some VERY corrupt places in Louisiana where departments were able to keep the funds from anything that they confiscated, so they confiscated a lot of stuff based on false charges. That's likely a bit worse than unethical speed traps. |
I did it just this week.
You can do it online here. Both charges were withdrawn yesterday. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1699127172.jpg |
Coburg, Oregon...be careful driving I-5 near there...they annexed the land next to the Interstate in order to write tickets...
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Latest update, have made a lot of calls, can't talk with anyone. The police prosecutor doesn't answer his phone. So my options are:
1. Leave a message asking the police prosecutor to call me back. I seriously doubt that he will. 2. Go to the zoom meeting, have a map showing the short 30 into 40 and explain the time of day and speeding up to the 40 zone and no traffic/safe conditions and hope they say OK, they'll knock it down to non-moving but pay this. I already paid $20 I think just to have this court session which I also think is unconstitutional. God I wish I had time to mobilize a way to fix this system 3. Find an hire an attorney on Yelp. What do you guys think. |
#1 never admit to anything
#2 hire attorney if they dont call back. call backs are hard to get in this business...it has always been like this as far as I can remember. |
Main thing I do if no clear solution: go to court dressed well with a good attitude.
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Call the court clerks office and ask how the hearing will proceed. In my neck of the woods, the prosecutor reserves a little time before hand to meet with all of the poor SOBs that got the tickets.
I agree with the above advice, suit and tie and a briefcase. |
I remember the last time I got a speeding ticket.
My brother was with me, we were heading up to Willow for a Sunday of watching the races up there. Coming over the Sepulveda pass on the 405 the cruise control on my Mustang wouldn't hold it back at 70 mph because of the grade, so I switched it off and took my foot off the gas. I'd seen the motor cop up ahead but he'd gotten off on the off ramp to the 101, so I switched the cruise back on at the bottom of the hill to let it pick back up at 70. Cop had 'paced' me from the outer on ramp lanes and pulled me over before we got to the under pass for the 101. Said he clocked me at 75. My brother immediately says NO WAY as he's sitting in the passenger seat with the cop talking thru his open window. I figured if he wanted me to do 55 then I'd sit in the fast lane and clog traffic up at 55 all the way to Rosamond. Kind of ruined my day as it wasn't worth it to take time off work to go fight it. I think I did traffic school for a whole day one Saturday. I had the only shiny black car out that Sunday morning so kind of stuck out like a sore thumb since there wasn't all that much traffic out anyways. Was I speeding? Well, I wasn't going the speed limit, but I wasn't the fastest guy out there either. Did the cop pace me correctly? Probably not as the radii of the turns were such that he had to go 75 to keep up with me doing 65-70 based on the difference in distance traveled around the turn. Did he fill his quota that morning? Probably. |
Here's the latest and nearly final info. The police prosecutor called me back. He was very nice.
There is no reduce to non-moving violation ability in MA. I am surprised but I shouldn't be. MA for decades/century was a state where you could only buy auto insurance from an instate broker that you had to visit at their physical offices, that is to say the insurance lobby in MA bought the legislature years ago. ONly 10-15 years ago could you get Geico, etc. So things like no reduction to non-moving and no traffic school are remnants from days gone by and I doubt even with a ballot initiative which would win overwhelmingly would change this infrastructure. The Italians and Irish who built this state are insanely corrupt, just look at our roads. Basically he tells the officer's side of the story via officers notes and then I tell my story and the constable decides. If there's any good news I asked if I could see the officer's notes and he said he would email me them. On dress. Yes, shirt and tie. but it's zoom. |
Yikes. I wonder if an attorney can get it dismissed. To some extent, the system takes care of its own, including attorneys.
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Maybe look into offtherecord.com ?
I've never used them and only heard their adverts. GL |
^^^Thanks, I got a quote of $245 which is reasonable
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What do you get for $245?
How much is the fine now and about what happens to your insurance if you don't get another ticket? |
A local attorney is hired it looks like.
Fine is $145. |
What are you hoping to get out of this?
Guilty with a reason doesn't usually go over very well with a judge. |
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Ordered a driving record so he could see it. Most recent was a minor accident in 2016 that was my fault, then speeding in 2012, ran out of gas in 2012, it was my old Ducati and I had forgotten to reset the tripodometer (that's a ticket here) and then speeding in 2006 and beyond. |
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Be a rebel! Don't wear pants! |
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It's time to start offering bribes :D...
Good luck Shaun! |
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haha, no points but it does show up on your record.
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