Psychedelics and the psychology of end of life

[cockerpunk]

I do sincerely believe that the world would be a better, healthier place, if more people had used/tried psychedelics.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/05/1210327976/psychedelic-drugs-psilocybin-roland-griffiths-depression-cancer-meditation?utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR0xAIooW0DXV5YO2rCabrfjCYUkMbsLhymKOW3D-_qYjh_CLBmk-6iHbnk

[ckissick]

As a long time Dead Head, I have some experience in this realm, and I agree. I haven't done any of it since I was in my 20s because it's very intense and I just don't feel the need. My daughter who is now 22 dropped a tab while in college, had a great time, and ever since she hasn't felt the mild anxiety and depression that bothered her beforehand. She also doesn't feel the need to do it again.

[Bob Kontak]

I agree that the right stuff, the right time AND front end guidance could work towards achieving serenity.

From the link:

The true method of knowledge is experiment," from the poet William Blake.

Perhaps this is the origin of the modern day expression "Eff around and find out".

[fastfredracing]

It changes your perception on the world .

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I agree that the right stuff, the right time AND front end guidance could work towards achieving serenity.

From the link:

The true method of knowledge is experiment," from the poet William Blake.

Perhaps this is the origin of the modern day expression "Eff around and find out".

oh set and setting is critical for sure.

[ramonesfreak]

having had much experience in this, all I can say about myself is that if i was facing cancer or something terminal, I would likely stay as far away from these substances as possible. that’s just me and based on my own observations

as for your suggesting that if more tried = better/healthier place, I again have my reservations. I can agree regarding certain aspects of the experience but my own experiences tell me that it is a rare group of people that can come away with something positive from it. I think a great many people would end up shattered

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

having had much experience in this, all I can say about myself is that if i was facing cancer or something terminal, I would likely stay as far away from these substances as possible. that’s just me and based on my own observations

as for your suggesting that if more tried = better/healthier place, I again have my reservations. I can agree regarding certain aspects of the experience but my own experiences tell me that it is a rare group of people that can come away with something positive from it. I think a great many people would end up shattered

huh, what was your set and setting?

"bad trips" are a thing of the past IMO, based on poor set and setting or poor companionship. the closest ive been to a bad trip, which i have had, set and setting ... the only way out is through.

[ramonesfreak]

I couldn’t possibly tell you because I used these substances, specifically LSD and mushrooms over the course of 20 years. I’m not telling you that a “bad trip” formed my opinion. I’ve certainly had those.

This is a very complicated topic to discuss just by the very nature of what it is. I can say that I think people, not all, but probably most, will have great difficulty assimilating back. I’m not sure the general public has the tools necessary to know how to use their discovery. I do not think one needs to have the intellect of a Terence McKenna but….one needs to be careful about what they go looking for.

I am not discounting the positive benefits these drugs can have in certain clinical settings - in fact I have reached the conclusion that such a setting is probably the only setting they should be used.

Personally, this is a double edge sword scenario. On one hand I can not deny the benefits I received as hard as those benefits may be to define, and on the other hand I feel very fortunate that I survived with my mind mostly intact.

[911 Rod]

Micro dosing for depression is a "thing".

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

This is a very complicated topic to discuss just by the very nature of what it is. I can say that I think people, not all, but probably most, will have great difficulty assimilating back. I’m not sure the general public has the tools necessary to know how to use their discovery. I do not think one needs to have the intellect of a Terence McKenna but….one needs to be careful about what they go looking for. .

this paragraph is baffling to me. what are we "assimilating back" to? what is that process "assimilating?" what is "their discovery?"

what happened to you?

[ramonesfreak]

Assimilate means your mind thought (about things, and yourself) one way before the experience and a different way after….maybe not until the 3rd time or 100th time…..and now you have to adjust

The basic issue is that at some point, again maybe it takes 3 times, maybe 50, your brains get a bit scrambled. I can’t put my finger on just exactly what I’m talking about and that in itself is a problem.

To the extent you continue on with this, I would suggest NOT touching LSD and sticking just to the mushroom. Further, I am of the firm belief that these drugs are best used for some limited purpose, not as weekend fun. You take what you need from it and move on.

[ramonesfreak]

You ask what happened to me….my answer is I DONT KNOW. It’s sorta funny but not really. I simply can’t remember “how I was” before. I just know I’m different now. I do have very high anxiety partially due to being hyper aware of everything all the time…

[bivenator]

Psychonaut, a user of psychedelics. I think that like so many things in life, they aren't as bad for you as the govt tells you and they aren't as good for you as the artists contend.

I am a firm believer in the power of psychedelics to improve PTSD and other disorders. The most effective use of psychedelics for this group involves cognitive therapy following the use. You can't simply trip balls and the next day be cured.

It is very common for a new user of psyches to experience depersonalization and/or depression following a trip.

Persons with certain personality types or mental health issues i.e. schizophrenia should not take them.

I read many antidotes for 1st time users that report difficulties dealing with day to day mental health following psyches usage.
I believe this is what ramonesfreak refers to in his post regarding assimilating back.

[GG Allin]

I wish I had the nuts to smoke some DMT. I don't. That said, the stuff is fascinating.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Assimilate means your mind thought (about things, and yourself) one way before the experience and a different way after….maybe not until the 3rd time or 100th time…..and now you have to adjust

The basic issue is that at some point, again maybe it takes 3 times, maybe 50, your brains get a bit scrambled. I can’t put my finger on just exactly what I’m talking about and that in itself is a problem.

To the extent you continue on with this, I would suggest NOT touching LSD and sticking just to the mushroom. Further, I am of the firm belief that these drugs are best used for some limited purpose, not as weekend fun. You take what you need from it and move on.

I have used LSD, its not my personal favorite for a few reasons. honestly, the biggest reason is that its too ****ing long. im tired, i wanna sleep. i dont want to go on a 12 hour marathon trip where you can tell science invented this drug, because only scientists would be that ****ed up as to be like "yes, this, we want to distill this"

every time i have used a psychedelic, i have come back slightly differently. thats the power of them, they can literally re-write your brain. its not as simple or easy as "huh, i guess im just over that now" but in a lot of ways, it also kind of is that easy.

i characterize the trip on psychedelic, in two phases, the meltdown, and then the rebuilding.

during the meltdown, you are having your entire ego, your entire self, basically meltdown down to nothing. your being broken apart and the boarders between you, and everything else melt away. your ego, your self, kind of stops existing. you are the floor. you are the sun. you are the grass. you are the sky. you can feel the vibration of your molecules, all the clichés are true lol. this can be scary, esp at first. it can also lead to some struggles, as you try not to let go of yourself, because you are scared of what else there could be. you can be scared of who you are, and what you have done. and you can struggle a lot with your own biology, your own body. the worst trip i ever had, i had a rough meltdown, i had to spend what seemed like hours, but really was only like 45 minutes, planning my next breath. trying to regulate my breathing was a difficult task at that point. i couldnt tell when i needed to, and so had to purposefully measure time and then breath. it was not comfortable.

and then there is my favorite part, which is the rebuilding. once you have been broken down, you start to rebuild. you start to figure out and remap the boundaries of your body. and your self. and your feelings. and as you rebuild, you kind of get to rebuild yourself better. you have the opportunity to analyze things about yourself that you never could before. and you can kind of pick and choose how to fit yourself back together. pants make sense again.

the only way out, is through.

i also do not advice week in/week out usage. several times per year MAX imo. although MDMA, kind of "the party psychedelic" i could see using more often, as long as you can deal with the hangover. which isn't terrible, but its not that great either, and other drugs have better after effects.

i have limitied experience with micro dosing YMMV. though i have known people who swear by it.

[ramonesfreak]

ok, so you know what I know. and do you think that your typical person can handle the melting and rebuilding, as you call it?

As I tried to say, and you did-- it will re-write your brain. Indeed it does just that....I call it scrambling the brains.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

ok, so you know what I know. and do you think that your typical person can handle the melting and rebuilding, as you call it?

As I tried to say, and you did-- it will re-write your brain. Indeed it does just that....I call it scrambling the brains.

i dont think im special or lucky for having had the experience and being here to talk about it.

why dont you think a typical personal can handle it?

[ramonesfreak]

the experience is one of the more emotionally and intellectually intense experiences that you can have and I do believe that the mind is left permanently change.

Im just not convinced that my neighbors would know how to process and understand it. I think it can really upend your relationship to reality.

The Syd Barretts and Peter Greens of the world are not that rare.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

outside of a clinical setting, the experience is one of the more emotionally and intellectually intense experiences that you can have and I do believe that the mind is left permanently change.

Im just not convinced that my neighbors would know how to process and understand it. I think it can really upend your relationship to reality.

The Syd Barretts and Peter Greens of the world are not that rare.

i dont know why you would think that your neighbors wouldnt know how to process it and understand it (kind of weird phrase, that seems loaded with a subtext assuming there is only one way to process and understand things).

what do you and I have that they don't?

[pwd72s]

Gee Cocker, is it okay if I say "no thanks"?