do you need winter tires and/or AWD if you drive in snow?
 

To answer those questions, how about some testing and math.

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As far as the tires go, the answer is "yes" (assuming frequent driving in snow). As far as AWD goes the answer is "it depends".

For the folks that didn't/aren't watching the video.

avg stopping distance per tire type (winter tires <50% of summer tires)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1703379298.jpg

incline that different cars/tires can climb in % (45º =100%)
Tires are the biggest factor with drive being second (but still huge)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1703379331.jpg

acceleration (not really that important, but a good visualization of the performance difference due to tire type and vehicle drive)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1703379314.jpg

Both of our main vehicles are AWD (Macan S) or 4WD, my truck. I have winter tires for both. We get real winter here with ice/snow typically from mid November to mid March on the ground at any time. We also drive through the mountains a lot to visit my kids. The Macan summer wheels are 21s and the available tires are very performance biased. I got a set of 19's and dedicated studless snow tires. I hate studs. They ruin the roads around here and should be banned.

To answer the question, NO.

I drove in 1974 914 2.0 in snow deep enough that the engine mount cross-member was leaving tracks in the snow. We had a full on blizzard, (35 MPH winds, and over an inch per hour snowfall for more than 3 hours) near whiteout conditions. My grandmother was several miles away and needed to get home, several more miles away. My 914 just trudged along on regular tires. I got her to her house, and then back to my house.

Everyone managed to do it from the dawn of driving to the late 1970s on bias ply tires, no traction control, no ABS, and just two wheel drive.

I drove my El Camino home from work in a ice storm with 3/4 inch of ice on the roads, and it was wet ice, when the rear end was a peg leg. That was the day I decided I will change the rear end to limited slip. I made it home on roads so slick, that when I stopped in front of our house, and Elky slid sideways to come to rest against the curb just from the slope of the street. It was several hours of work to get the driveway cleared of ice to get it up the driveway into the garage.

We never lived anyplace in the states with snow. We were stationed in northern Japan twice in a place that got a lot of snow. The first time that we lived there (I was a kid) I remember my dad having studded tires for the cars for the winter. I'm pretty sure that when we went back (about 3 years after we left the first time) studs were no longer allowed because of the damage to the roads. So we had snow tires, and then if it was really bad, you could put chains on which then had to be taken off if/when the roads were cleared. Neither time that we were there did they put down salt. The roads were always plowed, but there were periods where you never saw the roads because they'd be covered in a thick, packed layer of snow and ice.

Anyone who argues against dedicated winter tires hasn't owned them for a real winter. In direct comparison to anything else, there is none.

No doubt, they are wonderful for the folks that live in areas with a lot of snow. Clearly better. If I lived in Denver or Boulder, yea, I would have 4 wheel drive winter tire beater. As there is no reason for me to have to do that, I just say home on the few snowy or icy days we have.

Bias ply tires are fine when everyone has the same tires. When the car in front of has a stopping distance that's 50 feet shorter than yours, that's a problem.

In real winter weather, you need snow tires. The insurance cost reduction for four snow tires isn't based on guesses.

In my almost 40 years of living in MN at driving age, I have never owned an all wheel drive or 4 wheel drive and I have done just fine, although front wheel drive makes a big difference.

I can completely vouch for snow tires though, I bought my first set probably 8 years ago and the first major storm afterwards was a mess and I decided to get off the backed upped main road and use surface roads through the city. There was a huge hill and at there were at least four vehicles stuck or spinning out on the hill; I drove around them all and made it home without issue.

If you need to travel: snow tires and experience will get you almost anywhere.
All wheel drive is good when you are acquiring additional experience :D
One of the most capable snow vehicles I have driven was my '93 Passat turbo diesel with Michelin Arctic Alpin snow tires. Amazing traction and smooth power delivery. I recall passing snow plows with that car.
Both of our fwd VWs get their winter boots installed around the first of November because you never know when Mother Nature will test you to see if you are paying attention.

Best
Les

AWD is likely bad for most people, they underestimate the road conditions, people in 4wd trucks are possibly the worst at it. Would enjoy seeing them fly by on the highway only to see them 100ft off the highway in the ditch 5 minutes later. We don't usually have much snow here but I have winter tires for both cars, stopping distance is the important part. One insurance claim will cost more than a couple sets of tires.

4WD without winter tyres just gets you to the accident quicker in icy/snowy conditions

Winter tyres will help you not have an accident

For me winter tyres are just the best invention since the wheel

I live in the UK drive a 4WD but fit winter tyres so I can drive a 2000 miles across Europe and back in winter without ever worrying about what the weather will throw at me

I guess that includes chains too. Out here people who ski carry chains. The CHP will stake out spots for mandatory installation. Or turn around. There's usually some hustler a bit down the road with some used and new overpriced chains.

What you need depends on the conditions. We live on a sledding hill that some years turns into a few inches of water ice. I can easily get up in my truck with chains on the front. Studs can do it with a lot of drama, winter tires… no.

One year a delivery kid drove down in his dads minivan. Was stuck for 5 days until dad and friends arrived. I loaned them picks and shovels and in 4 hours they chipped a 400’ path for the tires. Thats a lesson he will never forget.

Mostly we are fine driving fwd in snow with 4 season tires. Use your common sense. What 100% isnt ok is snow driving with extreme summer tires. Nope, nope, nope.

Driver is far more important that the hardware.

I remember when I drove a terrified guy home one winter who had a perfectly fine working 4wd jeep. He just lost his mind on a steep hill.

Same with a woman on a bridge. There was maybe 40' of slick ice and she was trapped in the middle bawling. I turned her around and got her 20' to dry pavement.

The answer is sort of what Kevin, the Cajun Chef told us years back in a cooking class when someone asked about what ingredients were appropriate: "Watchoo got?"

Be well, Pellies!

Here in west Michigan, we can have the worst roads in the winter because of Lake Michigan.
I haven't used snow tires for at least 30 years. Just all-season tires with good tread.

My Civic is front wheel drive with LSD and it is incredibly good in snow as long as the depth is below the clearance.

When the Cayenne first came out, I was all excited to drive one in the snow. I quickly found out that even with ground clearance and AWD, the Cayenne with performance tires was no match for snow. Many of our customers had a dedicated set of winter tires/wheels that we stored for them and changed out twice a year.

+1
I learned to drive in NY in the early 70's and biased ply tires needed help: studded snow tires. Problem - those snow tires were in the rear on RWD cars. You still had to understand HOW to drive in snow or you were an accident waiting to happen. Also, nothing will help you if you have ice on the road other than metal studs and they are banned in most places. NOTHING! Even then, if you drove studded tires on dry ground you will lose most of the studs pretty quickly.

So, do you have to have snow tires and AWD? No but if you can get them then you are improving your odds.

p.s. I prefer not to drive in snow here in TN mostly because of the other drivers who don't have a clue.

yes.

but in the case of my wife its a 4WD tundra with studded winter tires and a couple hay bales in back keeping her on the road.





p.s.
i drive an FJ. the thing is a little tank.

:rolleyes:
Well then clearly, this tech is useless. We should probably stop making winter/snow tires. We should probably also stop making max/extreme/ultimate performance summer tires too. Actually, radials are also unnecessary by that rational and the statement above. We could all just go back to bias ply and we'd be fine with no repercussions!

Wait, I think I've stumbled across another step in the progression. Cars! We don't need horseless carriages. For many, MANY years before we had cars, we had horses, pack animals, camels, or feet to get us around. We should probably go back to that because it would solve the whole "which tire" dilemna. :D

Lots of dumarses running around Texas in the rain and farther north (DFW area) in the snow with 4WD/AWD in the winter thinking they can drive warm/dry speeds. They find out.