Tight, sporty mid size SUV that isn't a maintenance nightmare?

[berettafan]

Every so often i look at my f250 fuel bills and think 'man i could save a LOT of money driving something else during the week'. sedans sit too low for me so it seems like mid size SUV is right. Room for guns, golf clubs and dogs if needed. Sporty would be a need though. So I keep ending up perusing used Cayenne and X5 listings. Upper 20's mpg on highway sounds decent.

But inevitably i find post after post of horror stories about transaxles, plastic pipes, etc falling apart. Honestly a model Y kinda makes sense but they do feel heavy and have no sound to enjoy. And when battery goes you're $14k into it. Might as well be rebuilding a Porsche or BMW six at that point right?

MDX? Hondas we owned in the past were soulless regardless of power. Has that changed significantly?

Saw a Durango RT this morning and it sounded awesome but i would imagine it's about as sharp as a butter knife in handling. I think i would prefer tossable. Don't need 500hp, just fun and some ability to rotate and break a wheel loose here and there.

So what have you guys found in this arena that is maybe DIY friendly? i've put 38k miles on my f250 which i bought in dec of '21.

[Tim Hancock]

My daily driver 6 cylinder "base" model Cayenne has about 240k on the clock and still is going strong. Any work/maintenance has always been DIY... never had it in a shop for 100k plus miles I have owned it.

[Zeke]

I would love a Cayenne but the rep they have does not jibe with Tim's experience. I've concluded after reading here and there for maybe a year now that about $1000/yr is needed to be budgeted for repairs. That's with no DIY. It's unfair to include DIY in annual expense because that is not the norm for that type of vehicle.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Every so often i look at my f250 fuel bills and think 'man i could save a LOT of money driving something else during the week'. sedans sit too low for me so it seems like mid size SUV is right. Room for guns, golf clubs and dogs if needed. Sporty would be a need though. So I keep ending up perusing used Cayenne and X5 listings. Upper 20's mpg on highway sounds decent.

But inevitably i find post after post of horror stories about transaxles, plastic pipes, etc falling apart. Honestly a model Y kinda makes sense but they do feel heavy and have no sound to enjoy. And when battery goes you're $14k into it. Might as well be rebuilding a Porsche or BMW six at that point right?

MDX? Hondas we owned in the past were soulless regardless of power. Has that changed significantly?

Saw a Durango RT this morning and it sounded awesome but i would imagine it's about as sharp as a butter knife in handling. I think i would prefer tossable. Don't need 500hp, just fun and some ability to rotate and break a wheel loose here and there.

So what have you guys found in this arena that is maybe DIY friendly? i've put 38k miles on my f250 which i bought in dec of '21.

Not sure how new you are thinking or price of extra vehicle but make sure to do all of the math. Buying another car to save on fuel expenses generally only works if the extra vehicle is very cheap to buy and insure. I'm possibly buying a car to replace my DD and the quote for full coverage insurance I got yesterday knocked me for a loop. Maybe it's my zip code but I am in my 60s with zero accidents or tickets and have been with AAA for ages. I have a few other vehicles on the policy but they are very lightly driven.

The SUV you are buying would have to be very cheap to buy, insure and maintain plus get excellent fuel mileage for it to pencil out. What fuel mileage does the F250 get city/highway?

[berettafan]

Getting 11.8 around town in the truck. 15 or so on longish highway trips. If i were to make a change it'd be trade the truck on a less expensive sporty SUV (my God am i getting old) with good mpg (bury me now!) and spend 10-15k on a weekend truck like an older Tundra.

I do love my truck but looking at a 10yr plan to be ready for semi retirement has me rethinking certain spending habits.

[Otter74]

Speeder makes a good point, but if you're going to buy a relatively-efficient SUV for commuting, a Mazda CX-5 would be a good choice to fit your brief. I'd also consider a Ford C-Max - it's not exactly an SUV, more of an MPV in the European mold (it was developed for that market), based on a Focus but taller, and with a slightly taller driving position to match. They're not sports cars, but they're pretty nice to drive (we have a bunch of them in the fleet at work) and with the hybrid powertrain they're very fuel-efficient.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I would love a Cayenne but the rep they have does not jibe with Tim's experience. I've concluded after reading here and there for maybe a year now that about $1000/yr is needed to be budgeted for repairs. That's with no DIY. It's unfair to include DIY in annual expense because that is not the norm for that type of vehicle.

I can only speak for my '08 base model Zeke which does not have as many complex systems to go wrong (no air suspension to go bad for example). It is the gasoline VR6 engine that is a VW design. This engine is typically very reliable and can easily go to 300k plus. In sport mode it is plenty quick. I rarely use sport mode, but it always surprises me when I do push the button. I have pulled a trailer weighing 6000 lbs and it was no problem. Only issues I can think of having in the last 10 years or so of ownership was an electric cooling fan replacement, a leaking coolant flange replacement, high pressure fuel pump replacement, air/oil separator replacement, tires and brakes once each. Not bad for a car we bought used with over 100k on it.

This was my wife's daily until the miles got to around 200k which is when I typically buy her something newer and then I daily drive the old one. She now drives a '13 base Cayenne that now is around 100K which is similar but has next gen body and 8 spd vs 6 spd trans.

My only worries for either car are with the transfer cases, but so far I have had good luck with changing the oil with Ravenol a couple times each.

[vlocci]

Not sure of what your are looking to spend budget-wise but can offer this suggestion.

I'm about to put my '14 Cayenne Diesel up for sale only because the kids are older and we really need a 3rd row vehicle. 30+MPG on the highway and in town. 1000 mile range per tank. Absolutely bulletproof and not subject to all the long term maintenance issues of the Porsche/VW non-diesel line. I love this SUV!

In the last 10 years / 80,000 miles I have spent exactly $536.40 on unplanned maintenance per my super anal spreadsheet of vehicle costs. One battery and one failed window switch, both dealer installed since we were away from home when they broke.

Beyond this it has been just general preventative maintenance (wipers/oil/brakes) which are easy to DIY and remarkably inexpensive.

[bob deluke]

We’ve owned 6 Volvos, a few XC70’s , a C30,a C70 and a Bertone coupe. all were used, not too high mileage and pretty much bulletproof. Brakes tires oil changes and a couple axle bearings. Plenty of room on the XC70 for dogs, groceries, lumber, feed, concrete bags, fences, etc. seats are heated and super comfortable. Heated windshield, steering wheel, decent stereo. Our 2014 has 110K miles on the odo and all I’ve done in 40 thousand miles of ownership is a battery, and rotors/pads all around. Has regular oil changes and maintenance is relatively easy. Has the T6 Turbo, plenty of grunt when needed. Will probably sell it in the spring and buy a used XC60. Some of the most reliable, inexpensive cars I’ve ever owned. Can’t say the same about the 4 Porsches I’ve owned over 20 years.





pretty bulletproof

[pwd72s]

Tight & Sporty

Easy maintenance

Choose one.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Getting 11.8 around town in the truck. 15 or so on longish highway trips. If i were to make a change it'd be trade the truck on a less expensive sporty SUV (my God am i getting old) with good mpg (bury me now!) and spend 10-15k on a weekend truck like an older Tundra.

I do love my truck but looking at a 10yr plan to be ready for semi retirement has me rethinking certain spending habits.

Ok, got it. Replacing the truck. I was reading it as adding a vehicle to save on fuel. I love those newer Super Duty trucks but unless you really need it and it makes you money, they are very hard to pencil out.

[berettafan]

Paul you're pissing in my corn flakes!

Speeder sorry for the vagueness of my initial post. I dearly love a lot of things about my truck and maybe if i were driving say 5k miles per year i wouldn't be going through this thought process. It really does ride and handle nicely for an essentially 1 ton truck. Factory 35's on 18" wheels cover up a lot of sins.

[jim72911t]

I love my X3, but it’s older, with the last of the N/A I6 engines. Maintenance is a breeze, it is sporty enough that I’ve thought about taking it to the track, and it’s cheap to buy and run. This is the first time since 1987 that I haven’t had a truck and for the most part it’s been fine. If we need to haul lumber or go to the dump (we are remodeling our 2nd house in 4 years) we hitch up the enclosed trailer or rent a truck for 25 bucks.

It is waaay better than any truck for a DD, that’s for sure.

[cockerpunk]

cayenne have things like 1000 dollar power steering pumps. id shy away.

if you want something economical and fun to drive, then dont get any crossover or SUV. none of them are economical or fun to drive compared to things actually built to be economical and fun to drive. compromises are never good at anything.

[Steve Carlton]

What's your budget and how many miles do you want to put on it?

Generally, I'd say something Japanese, but most (if not all) are fairly soulless. MDX might be the best of the lot, as far as I'm aware. Maybe an INFINITI? The new Mazda CX-90 is supposed to be awesome. I have no idea if it's sporty enough. Mazda tends to be a sportier Japanese maker, although 2nd tier in terms of reliability IMO.

[speeder]

Just about anything that isn’t a truck or huge SUV gets ~25 mpg in city mileage these days and the fuel savings will be substantial with the miles you drive. Even most luxury cars get 30 on the highway.

I love trucks when they are doing what they’re designed for but don’t enjoy driving mine in the city. Maybe you don’t live in as urban an area.

[rfuerst911sc]

Everything I have read about VR6 engine Cayennes is the engine is rock solid . Cast iron block so no bore scoring BS . Base models with standard suspension eliminate all the air adjustable crap .

The only weak spot I am aware of is the transfer case and that is mostly certain model years . The TC doesn't hold much fluid so it is wise to change every 30k . Some guys change it every 2nd or 3rd oil change . That might be overkill .

I am still on the hunt for a VR6 pepper wagon , I will find one eventually that talks to me 😋

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Everything I have read about VR6 engine Cayennes is the engine is rock solid . Cast iron block so no bore scoring BS . Base models with standard suspension eliminate all the air adjustable crap .

The only weak spot I am aware of is the transfer case and that is mostly certain model years . The TC doesn't hold much fluid so it is wise to change every 30k . Some guys change it every 2nd or 3rd oil change . That might be overkill .

I am still on the hunt for a VR6 pepper wagon , I will find one eventually that talks to me 😋

Yep.... spot on.

Tab Tanner, a former poster on here owns a german car repair business in Ohio and he is the reason we bought our first VR6 Cayenne. He had one back then when I told him all the problems I was having with my BMWX5 my wife was driving at the time (front differential took a crap). He recommended the V6 Cayenne (ONLY the V6 Cayenne) as he had one with over 200k on the clock and used it exclusively as his shop truck. He has hauled cars on a trailer all over the country with it. He still has it now with over 300k on the clock and it still runs great. While he likes the turbo and S models, he told me (knowing I DIY and only buy used and rack up high mileage) that the VR6 engined Cayennes that have passed through his shop have never had serious issues while the 8 cylinder more complex cars do have more issues as they age and rack up the miles.

[berettafan]

so does that carry through 2018? Looks like base models through then were vr6 engines.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

What's your budget and how many miles do you want to put on it?

Generally, I'd say something Japanese, but most (if not all) are fairly soulless. MDX might be the best of the lot, as far as I'm aware. Maybe an INFINITI? The new Mazda CX-90 is supposed to be awesome. I have no idea if it's sporty enough. Mazda tends to be a sportier Japanese maker, although 2nd tier in terms of reliability IMO.

Well I've spent time looking at stuff from $15-45k. Upper range being certified x5 or Cayenne base or Tesla Y. The Cayennes are quickly slipping out of that range though for certified.