Negotiating salary on the GS scale…?

[Arizona_928]

As some of you might already know the federal GS schedule is a playground. GS 11 has an education requirement of a PhD, or three years of graduate school leading to a PhD. I was flown out for an interview for an agency. They seem to like me as I was given a verbal offer but at a lower GS scale than what I was expecting. The offer was from the main supervisor for a 9, which will be bumped up to a 11 after a year… is it worth it to fight for the 11? Is this an HR issue?


Any advice would be appreciated.

[Synchro Joe]

GS-9 seems low with those education criteria. Normally the grade level assigned to open positions are clearly posted on the announcement. Mid-level positions are in the GS-8 to GS-12 range and top-level positions (senior managers, high-level technical specialists, or physicians) are in the GS-13 to GS-15 range. There are trade offs in play with 'equivalent documented experience' vs degrees, etc. I was GS-12 for many years before retiring after DHS took over. Too much politics.

[John Rogers]

After I retired from the Navy in 1985 I went in to Civil Service for several years. I went into an organization names DECAS which watched General Dynamics make cruise missiles and launchers as a GS 9 then moved over to Naval Station SD still as a GS 9 then my job was raised to GS 11 which was nice. The whole pay level thing was managed by people in Washington DC with input from local managers who wanted to keep or hire people they needed. I then went to COMNAVAIRPAC as a GS 12 in charge of the Admiral's Staff IT needs which including installing one of the first fiber optic LANs in the San Diego area (first gulf war time). My boss, the Chief of Staff and even the Admiral tried to get use 3 division heads raised to GS 13.....no luck so I left to work as a Senior Oracle DBA at double the salary!

Looking back the major advantage to civil service was job security although there was one time when federal spending forced folks to take early retirement as best I can remember. John Rogers the oldracer

[jrj3rd]

Consider negotiating for a higher step on the 9 scale if they a fixed at a 9. That pay bump will stay with you your entire career.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

Consider negotiating for a higher step on the 9 scale if they a fixed at a 9. That pay bump will stay with you your entire career.

Good point!
Is this something i negotiate when i get the tjo or the final offer?

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Good point!
Is this something i negotiate when i get the tjo or the final offer?

Unsure of how it works with the feds, but with my state job,,,, The base salary is just that. Then at hire they evaluate you and based on how much you exceed the basic job posting requirements, you get bumps of 2-5% depending on what area (education vs experience) up to a total or 20% over base

So... when I applied for a Java dev position that required a HS diploma and 2 years experience or a 2 year degree... with a 4 year degree and 20 years of Java experience and 35 years of programming experience plus systems skills... My extra degree level was worth 5%, each year of experience beyond minimum in posting was 2% and at that point we all just started laughing 'cause I had already exceeded max bumps.

[Seahawk]

My wife is a former SES that reverted back to a GS-15 position to stay out of DC.

What they are offering is a "ladder" GS 9 to 11 and perhaps beyond. Not bad.

As far as "steps" go, they are generally negotiable. If you are getting a ladder to an 11 in a year I would not make the "step" a deal breaker. Here are the rates:

https://www.generalschedule.org/GS-9

Depending on your degree, the scale slides up. Make sure you understand what your degree means for pay: My wife is an engineer and hr salary is a a level beyond the general pay scale.

All that said, will you be in the Pentagon or DC/Arlington in general? It matters.

Good luck! Oh, use and abuse TSP.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

My wife is a former SES that reverted back to a GS-15 position to stay out of DC.

What they are offering is a "ladder" GS 9 to 11 and perhaps beyond. Not bad.

As far as "steps" go, they are generally negotiable. If you are getting a ladder to an 11 in a year I would not make the "step" a deal breaker. Here are the rates:

https://www.generalschedule.org/GS-9

I agree, It's not the time to be greedy. It pays more than a post doc and I'm pretty sure my SC transfers. OTOH, I think it's a good idea to pose soft inquiries to HR once the paperwork starts rolling. Self advocate.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Depending on your degree, the scale slides up. Make sure you understand what your degree means for pay: My wife is an engineer and hr salary is a a level beyond the general pay scale.

I'm not sure I am catching that one. For my field they list this general description for the pay scale. I"m currently on the ZP pay scale. Which I understand as more merit base.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

All that said, will you be in the Pentagon or DC/Arlington in general? It matters.

Good luck! Oh, use and abuse TSP.

It's not in DC.

Thanks!.

[Seahawk]

Just make sure you go in at the highest, non-basic wage scale you can...it is worth the effort to understand every thing you can with HR.

Also, make sure the "step" to 11 is in writing...any time I brought people into my organization when I was in the government, I always made sure there was a plan in place if, detailed in writing, they came over.

I am glad to hear you will not be in DC...very difficult arena to get started in.

Best.

[Synchro Joe]

Also, the salary is also dependent upon whether or not there is a locality adjustment involved. General Schedule salaries will be higher, depending on the locality in which you work. For 2024, the top five locality areas with the highest percentage pay raise include:
Seattle-Tacoma, WA (5.7%)
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA (5.62%)
New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT-PA (5.53%)
Rochester-Batavia-Seneca Falls, NY (5.46%)
Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA (5.44%)

https://executivegov.com/articles/federal-salary-cap-pay-scale-locality/

[Ayles]

These salaries seem low. Is there more to it than the stated number? Is actual take home pay much higher than the stated steps due to bonuses or other types of compensation?

[Arizona_928]

The girlfriend is a high gs at a va. They get performance pay based on productivity... A few thousand irrc (I tune out when she talks about the va). I’ve asked how productivity and performance are rated in a few interviews, and the hiring managers seem to not like that specific question. Which kinda eludes that the hiring managers aren’t directly involved in the funding aspect… or just the specific row and column.

The pay is low and there’s few positions tbh. For how many years of education (especially in US where the PhD is 5 years)…. It’s quite the scam. Post doc is 50k. Research scientists (at uni) ~60k. Professor (non tenure) is capped around 75ish and tenure track starts at 75…. Gov postdocs pay 95k and are quite competitive. Which means if one doesn’t have 3 first author publications in high impact factor journals, that’s a no go (unless one falls in the dei)…. The market is overly saturated with science majors with only university experience, and entry level positions are being bombarded with PhD applicants…. With how universal things have become, it seems that one is competing against the entire workforce of the world for a few slots… I’ve tried to break away with experience in hazardous waste disposal and safety… Should find a picture of me bulking HF into 55 gallon drums.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

They get performance pay based on productivity... A few thousand irrc . I’ve asked how productivity and performance are rated in a few interviews, and the hiring managers seem to not like that specific question.

Performance pay is very subjective and arbitrary depending on the organization.

With, "Pass/Fail" for GS's it is nearly impossible to do fairly and there is always a lot of issues.

I ran the bonus pool for a large acquisition command as the CoS and established criteria as best I coulf for the PMA and Staff.

The key for you is to get hired and started. There are, once you get in the club, a lot of opportunities at your disposal.

Again, Good luck!

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

As some of you might already know the federal GS schedule is a playground. GS 11 has an education requirement of a PhD, or three years of graduate school leading to a PhD. I was flown out for an interview for an agency. They seem to like me as I was given a verbal offer but at a lower GS scale than what I was expecting. The offer was from the main supervisor for a 9, which will be bumped up to a 11 after a year… is it worth it to fight for the 11? Is this an HR issue?


Any advice would be appreciated.

Rules are much like union...where experience is key. You mut have a year of experience to compete for a job at a level beyond entry (for the degree).

You are being offered a position on education alone. The education requirements for grade are only if you are entering a position without experience. If you have a PhD and no experience, Grade 9 is the maximum. You need an equivalent of a year's experience at a 9 (or comparable in the private sector) to qualify for the 11. If you had a year's experience in a similar job at the GS 13 (private or Fed), you could compete for a 14 or lower in that series.

If you have experience at the next lower grade (or a higher grade) in the private sector, you can negotiate for a within grade step that pays up to one step more (3%) when entering civil service (f the hiring official is willing/wants you badly). If your previous pay in the private sector was GS-9, step 6, you could negotiate for as high as GS-9, step 7.

If the 9 you are looking at promotes to 11 without competition in a year, that is called a developmental position. Sometimes they tell you that you will get promoted (but it is not automatic) ...unless officially a developmental position. They often call these positions "9 target 11_ or similar depending on the grades.

[Arizona_928]

Thank you for the breakdown.

That makes a lot of sense on the developmental route. They kept mentioning as i gain experience it'll go higher. The supervisor seems like a straight shooter and said they are ultimately looking for a supervisor scientist at the 11-12 and asked if i would be interested in a dual role doing lab and regulation for now. I verbally accepted and they built the position this last week... I think the advancement is there and the team is friendly.

[fintstone]

Someone else mentioned this...but certain series get extra pay (over the posted rate) if low graded. I don't know what series you are looking at, but if an engineer, that is definitely the case in many places (if a GS-9). See the attached example:

https://www.opm.gov/special-rates/2024/Table041401012024.aspx