Engine Flush before Oil Change
 

Getting ready to do oil change on our Land Rover Disco 4 and thinking about using Liqui Moly engine oil flush. However, I just bought an oil vacuum extractor after I was told LR has a tube for oil extraction right under the oil filler cap. Pretty excited to not have to drop the heavy ass belly pan.

Just curious if using a flush would be better if the oil was drained the old fashioned way at the pan, letting gravity do the work and not trying to suck up all the grunge that the flush dislodges.

Thoughts??

For something like that I'd drain out the bottom. Suction out for regular changes is fine but I'd guess that the Liqui Moly may free-up something that would eventually settle in the pan. I'd want it all out.

I often think about a flush too on my kid's 4 runner. Only because it has 200k on it but the oil is still gold in color after 5000k oil change. I am just anal about sludge in any of my engines.

I think it would make sense to let gravity do all the work instead of sucking it through a small tube. Do the same, dran from the bottom on the next oil change just to get rid of all of the engine flush. After that, extract the oil through the cap as they oil will be clean of sludge.

May I ask why do you think it needs a flush?

2010 with 150k on the clock. Just seems like it is time.

I feel the same way but I often wonder if there a change some damage or leaking after all the sludge is keeping leaks at bay?

I’m a big fan of putting some ATF or Marvel’s Mystery Oil in the crankcase and taking it on a few hundred mile high speed road trip before changing the oil on old engines. It tends to do a great job cleaning and unsticking the oil control rings, (bottom rings on pistons), but draining it really good and long from the bottom is essential, IMO. If I really suspected sludge or other heavy dirt in the engine, I’d invest in an oil pan gasket and remove the pan as well to inspect.

Sucking the oil out through the top is only ok if it’s always been changed on time or sooner.

I had the same thought.

It was making some ticking sound recently but then I inherited it from the wife and my commute is highway and longer. Ticking gone. Plus, I keep it clean inside so I think it appreciates me more.

How much ATF or MM oil would you put in the crankcase, Dennis?

Youtube is full of tales regarding engine flush products. Some say they're great, some say they are a waste of money, and some say they are bad because of freed sludge clogged oil passages harming the engine.

Your call, but if the car is at 150K, running fine, I'd tend to think no flush...you have been changing at proper intervals with a good quality oil, right?

No opinion on the suck old oil out gadgets...

Lake Speed Jr. on a new Valvoline oil out there...maybe switch to this instead of flush? (edit) 22 minutes, but interesting....an oil that removes carbon & sludge? Hmmm. Engine oil flushes briefly mention at around 15 minutes. Lake speed says no...don't use 'em.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyyZDghgdCI&ab_channel=TheMotorOilGeek

That’s a great question. It’s not something that I do as a matter of course but if I had an old car that might have had some really dirty oil in it in the past, I’d probably throw a quart of ATF in a couple hundred miles before an oil change. It harms absolutely nothing and it’s super detergent.

Extreme situations call for extreme measures, though. Here is a true story to illustrate: a guy I know once bought an old mini truck, (maybe Mazda or Ranger but doesn’t matter), with a “bad motor.” It smoked like a crop duster and used something like a quart of oil every 100 miles. The truck was in NorCal, 4-500 miles away and he had to get it home so he bought some huge jugs of oil and a bunch of ATF, just to experiment. He had nothing to lose since he was planning on having to completely rebuild the engine anyway. I think that he told me that he threw about a half a gallon of ATF in it and set off on the highway. This would be half the oil capacity of the engine, more or less. It was a 4-banger.

Within 100 miles, it stopped smoking completely. With 200 miles, it stopped consuming oil. When he got it home to L.A., he changed the oil and filter and has been driving it for years now with no issues. The oil control rings were obviously totally stuck and gummed up and the ATF cleaned and freed them. I usually don’t buy the whole “tune up in a can” deal but this is an exception.

Also, if you look online, Marvel’s is the same price or cheaper than ATF in the present time. It’s better than ATF because it’s mineral oil.

When my BMW reached 240,000 miles it was time to replace the leaky oil pan gasket. I had been changing the oil every 5000 to 7500 miles and using either Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic the whole time. The oil pan was remarkably clean.

One last thing; in case you think that the guy with the mini truck was some idiot who just got lucky and did not blow up his engine, the truck and the story belongs to one of the best and long standing machine shops in SoCal. It is their parts runner. They know engines. :)

The best thing possible to do is always change your oil on time and use the best oil and filter available. Nothing beats that.

The “engine flush” that some repair shops try to sell people is complete BS IMO and in fact could really be harmful for the reasons stated above on this thread.

Denis, did you have a chance to watch the video I posted above?

Not yet, Paul but I will when I get home. Nothing like a good engine oil discussion to really get me riled up! :)

I just bought this jug on sale at Autozone for this car:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719885180.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719885180.jpg

Same here on my volvo xc70. Mobil 1 synthetic every time. At 250k ish 260? I don't remember, pulled the pan.

Clean as a whistle. Top end clean too.

- one thing to add though. Mostly highway miles. Long run times, enough to burn off condensation. I think the synthetic and the highway miles helped.

I have been using a vacuum extractor on my LR for a number of years. It's nice not to have to crawl under the car and not remove any engine covers (the oil filter is also on top of the engine) - but the extractor is slow.

Many YouTube videos on using these extractors and comparing to draining from the pan. No difference in the amount of oil removed. Videos show that after vacuum extraction, the oil pan drain plug is removed and nothing else comes out.

My daily driver El Camino came with a v8 305 from the factory. It went 300,000 miles and that engine was worn out, and started smoking.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719929469.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719929569.JPG

I took that engine apart just to see what was worn and how clean it was. The valve guides were shot, and the piston rings were worn. The bottom end was very clean.

I took it to the scales and sold it as scrap for $70 bucks. I installed a brand new 350 that was $1,700 delivered to my door. That was way cheaper than any machine work on an old engine.

Just regular oil changes and oil filters kept it clean. Then and now, when I change the oil, and check the level on the dip stick I have to get a reflection off of the dip stick to see the oil on the dip stick as it is clear. It only has a little color after 3,000 miles.

My 911 is the same way. Very clean inside.

Use premium oil and filters. Change at recommended, or lower, levels. Not need for any additives or flushes.

I am not sure that's true with some of the 'newer' engines. DI, high operating temps, thin oil from the OEM, oil can get cooked in new engines.

I have never flushed an engine, but I am not positive that it's a pointless exercise. I'm still undecided.

Watch the video linked in #10. Very informative. What's Lake Speed Jr. know? Quite a bit, actually...certified lubricate expert, formerly of Joe Gibbs racing...knock NASCAR all you like, but those "good ol' boys" are like drag racers...they know engines. I remember asking Grady Clay where he got all his engine know how...he replied that he used to hang out at drag strips. (edit) In the video he mentioned that Gibbs racing used low viscosity oils...that was a surprise to me...I'd have guessed the opposite.

It is extremely desirable to have a clean engine with all oil and coolant passages clear and no sludge on rings, etc. The argument is whether it is smart to try to "flush" the gunk out or just keep it clean in the first place with regular oil changes. You also cannot discount the importance of using the best filter available.

Off-brand or store brand oil, (like the STP brand in Autozone), can be 100% as good as Mobil1 or other name brand oils. You need to learn how to read the back of an oil container, where the additives and certifications are. Filters are another story, however. There can be a huge difference in filtering between brands. There are studies done that are published online showing the ineffectiveness of K&N filters, for instance. I always only use dealer filters or known OEM brands for my old Mercedes cars, like Mann and Hengst.

Drag racing guys know more about building powerful engines than anyone but let's face it, endurance isn't a big factor for them. Still, some of the most brilliant engine people are in that world. :cool:

Oil science has advanced far beyond the days of when I began driving...then, mostly single weight oils with a few additives. Multi weight oil was just coming onto the market, and nobody heard of synthetic oil...although it was out there, mainly military use.

I laugh when I see a brand of oil brag that their brand is used by a famous drag racer.
Top drag racers tear down the entire motor after each run!

I am from the stone age (late 1960's - 1970's muscle cars). Back then motor oil was not very high tech. My `67 Chevelle Super Sport ran straight 50 weight. The technology of modern motor oil and the additives already in it is a amazing. I am very hesitant to put additives in since you can screw things up more than fix things.

I've been told motor oil flush can:
-dislodge deposits which will then clog up some other place
-create a problem because the deposits are helping the oil rings seal
-be a problem if it is not completely removed (how do you get it all out?)
-be just snake oil: there is no 'miracle in a can'.

Are they true? Dunno. What I do know is that I am very careful to do oil changes myself with the right oil and a quality filter. The max time on a car that doesn't get a lot of mileage is 1 year. Cheap insurance.

A friend got hold of an old Chevy pickup w/200k+ on it. Was fixing it up for his son to use out at the river to get his boat to/from the water.
We put a qt of Sea Foam in the engine and another qt in the gas tank before he drove it out to the river. As far as I know it's still running OK. This was over two years ago.

Years back a co-worker used an engine flush product prior to an oil change. It ended up clogging the filter before he got to the oil change and cost him an engine replacement due to oil starvation.

Wow, that sounds like a seriously sludged up engine.

My first car, er vehicle, was a '58 CJ5 Jeep, F-head engine. The sludge in the lifter galley was so thick it could have passed for grease. It smoked like a m-@#$% and the pistons fell out when we undid the rod caps with the engine inverted on a stand. We had a really good laugh when that happened.

I do not suggest it

Nope

Close the thread. No further comments needed.

One more data point- I purchased Miko (2012 Acura TSX Wagon 2.4L) new in September of 2012. Now with 304K miles, I've averaged 6,500 miles between oil changes. Never did any flushing or additives. Valve adjustment is recommended every 100K, so at 300K I asked the Tech to film the valvetrain. Oil consumption is now at 1/2 qt. every 4K miles. I'm not sure if that says more about Honda 4-cylinder engines, regular oil changes, or the non-use of additives.

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+1.

Mike knows more about oil than the rest of us put together but to be fair, no one is really advocating for oil additives here other than the type that come already mixed in. I would only throw some Marvel’s or ATF in right before an oil change under rare circumstances.