Jewish couple fleeing in '38 sell art - descendents seeking restitutioneking resti

[masraum]

This is a weirdly written story. I feel like we're missing a part, possibly a big part of the story.

A couple sold their art in '38 in Germany and left because they saw things turning for the worse. I'm supportive of Jewish or other folks that lost their stuff in the holocaust getting their goods back or restitution for the goods. That seems reasonable to me. What seems weird to me is the lack of detail in the article. I'm assuming that when they sold their art, they were swindled, having to sell for pennies on the dollar. I'm surprised that isn't explicit in the article.

The way the article is written, it almost comes off like "they sold their stuff and left" (were fortunate) and now the descendants are trying to cash in. I'm sure that's not the case, but the way the article is written that's how it reads.

It's amazing how many folks are able to prove ownership and are then able to have items returned or be recompensed for them.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/museum-settles-with-heirs-of-jewish-couple-who-sold-a-16th-century-painting-as-they-fled-the-nazis-180984981/

Museum Settles With Heirs of Jewish Couple Who Sold a 16th-Century Painting as They Fled the Nazis

A 16th-century portrait created by Lucas Cranach the Elder and his workshop will be auctioned next year under an agreement between a Pennsylvania museum and the descendants of a Jewish couple who fled Nazi Germany during World War II.

The Allentown Art Museum has had Portrait of George the Bearded, Duke of Saxony in its collection since 1961, when it purchased the work from a New York gallery. The oil painting is thought to have been created around 1534.

In 2022, the museum received a restitution claim for the painting from the descendants of Henry and Hertha Bromberg.

Henry Bromberg, who served as a judge in a magistrate’s court in Hamburg, had inherited the painting from his father. After Adolf Hitler rose to power, the German-Jewish couple sold their collection and left Europe in 1938. The Brombergs arrived in the United States in 1939, living first in New Jersey and later settling in Pennsylvania.

The museum and the descendants disagreed about the timing and location of the sale—did the Brombergs sell the piece before or after leaving Germany? But the parties were still able to reach a compromise, “rather than everybody standing their ground and going to court,” Nicholas M. O’Donnell, the attorney for the museum, tells the Associated Press’ Michael Rubinkam.

The painting will be sold in January 2025, and the proceeds will be shared between the museum and the family in an undisclosed arrangement. The auction house has not released a valuation of the piece.

Max Weintraub, the museum’s president and chief executive officer, says in a statement that museum leaders considered the “ethical dimensions” of the painting’s history.

“This work of art entered the market and eventually found its way to the museum only because Henry Bromberg had to flee persecution from Nazi Germany,” he says. “That moral imperative compelled us to act. We hope that this voluntary act by the museum will inform and encourage similar institutions to reach fair and just solutions.”

In the statement, the descendants—which include the couple’s grandchildren and a close family friend—say they were “pleased” with the “fair and just solution.” They have recovered several other works from the Brombergs’ collection in recent years, though they’re still seeking around 80 pieces.

In 2016, the French government returned a 16th-century portrait attributed to Joos van Cleve or his son to the Brombergs. Two years later, French officials handed over three 16th-century paintings by Joachim Patinir. The descendants have also reached agreements for two other pieces that were in private collections, according to the New York Times’ Graham Bowley.

Before the painting heads to auction early next year, the museum will display it alongside another piece owned by a German-Jewish family before World War II. The installation will illustrate the “different trajectories of the artworks during and after the Nazi period,” per the museum’s statement. The display, which is on view through October 20, will also explain the museum’s decision to return the Cranach portrait to the Bromberg family.

Born in 1472, Cranach was a prolific German Renaissance painter, woodcut artist and muralist. He and his workshop also painted numerous portraits of Martin Luther, the German theologian who sparked the Protestant Reformation.

Christie’s specialists are now conducting a careful analysis of the artwork in order to confirm its attribution.

“This painting has been publicly known for decades, but we’ve taken this opportunity to conduct new research,” says Marc Porter, chairman of Christie’s Americas, in a statement, per the AP. “It’s leading to a tentative conclusion that this was painted by Cranach with assistance from his workshop.”

[Bill Douglas]

Umm, an interesting one. They did sell it. They didn't leave it there or have it stolen from them. But a degree of duress.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Umm, an interesting one. They did sell it. They didn't leave it there or have it stolen from them. But a degree of duress.

I believe I have read in the past how Jews were forced to "sell" items, but received a tiny fraction of the value of the stuff. But I'd expect an article like this to explicitly state that rather than the way it was written which sounds like a bogus money grab. (which is not the case, I'm sure)

[Bugsinrugs]

My parents lost everything. Family and all possessions. They did receive a monthly old age check from the German government. But, it took a lawyer and years to get that.

[WPOZZZ]

If the art was sold under duress, I can see a claim. If sold willingly (albeit pennies on the dollar) so they coud flee, it is a cash grab.

My family has a similar history. After Pearl Harbor was bombed, the US gov't did not want Japanese to own boats. My great grandfather had a fishing boat on the West end of Oahu. According to my mother, he was forced to sell the boat for pennies on the dollar. From what she said, he never really got paid for the boat. Do we have a claim for rstitution? I seriously doubt it.

The same goes for the Hawaiian landowners who sold their property to non-Hawaiians. Back then, it was sold for what they thought was a good price. Hawaiians have been lamenting for decades how the white man, Japanese and Chinese stole their land. My feeling is they sold it for what they thought it was worth and they were fine with it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

If the art was sold under duress, I can see a claim. If sold willingly (albeit pennies on the dollar) so they coud flee, it is a cash grab.

My family has a similar history. After Pearl Harbor was bombed, the US gov't did not want Japanese to own boats. My great grandfather had a fishing boat on the West end of Oahu. According to my mother, he was forced to sell the boat for pennies on the dollar. From what she said, he never really got paid for the boat. Do we have a claim for rstitution? I seriously doubt it.

The same goes for the Hawaiian landowners who sold their property to non-Hawaiians. Back then, it was sold for what they thought was a good price. Hawaiians have been lamenting for decades how the white man, Japanese and Chinese stole their land. My feeling is they sold it for what they thought it was worth and they were fine with it.

I had actually considered mentioning the Japanese that were detained and put in camps after losing everything in my original post. I believe I've heard about some restitution for them, but I think it was pretty small compared to what was lost, homes, businesses, everything. But I didn't want to compare that experience with three original subject.

But thank you for sharing your family's story. It's more valuable/meaningful than the original subject.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

My parents lost everything. Family and all possessions. They did receive a monthly old age check from the German government. But, it took a lawyer and years to get that.

Thank you for sharing.

[sc_rufctr]

Yep justice (sold under duress)...

Meanwhile multiple German companies have now given money to Holocaust survivors and their families.

At some point WW2 will truly be in the past but that a few years away.

[LWJ]

It sounds identical to the situation of Japanese internment camps being forced on people during WWII. I have a very very close buddy whose ancestors were forced into a camp with a few days notice. How does one liquidate everything under those circumstances. Poorly. That's how.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by masraum

I had actually considered mentioning the Japanese that were detained and put in camps after losing everything in my original post. I believe I've heard about some restitution for them, but I think it was pretty small compared to what was lost, homes, businesses, everything. But I didn't want to compare that experience with three original subject.

But thank you for sharing your family's story. It's more valuable/meaningful than the original subject.

Restitution was for being placed in an internment camp. This was a violation of their civil rights as US citizens. Under Reagan, the US gave surviving internees $20k each. One of my uncles received that $20k, not sure about anyone else in the family.

[917_Langheck]

Originally Posted by LWJ

It sounds identical to the situation of Japanese internment camps being forced on people during WWII. I have a very very close buddy whose ancestors were forced into a camp with a few days notice. How does one liquidate everything under those circumstances. Poorly. That's how.

Ya, you really don't liquidate. However, if you were lucky you had neighbors who understood and took care of your farm or store until you returned. That was rare, but did happen.


As to the painting

Anytime one needs to move goods to leave immediately, that isn't the time to wait for the highest offer. When leave or get rolled up into a ghetto is the choice, or the like, that is duress. Surprised to find that is difficult to fathom

[CurtEgerer]

Does there become a point in time where claims to monetary or social damage are no longer valid? We can't change history. Beyond the people who were directly involved (who are very obviously due compensation), things get sketchy in these types of claims and start to sound more like gold-digging than anything else the further out in time we go. We've all got very bad things that have happened to 'us' if we dig far enough into the past. I'm pretty sure my ancestors in Austria got swindled on the sale of a castle back in the 1300s and, well, I want to talk to a supervisor about getting my family castle back. I coulda been a King!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by LWJ

It sounds identical to the situation of Japanese internment camps being forced on people during WWII. I have a very very close buddy whose ancestors were forced into a camp with a few days notice. How does one liquidate everything under those circumstances. Poorly. That's how.

Except that these folks liquidated before they were forced to leave. They saw the writing on the wall and were able to get out ahead of being forced. I have no doubt that things had gotten bad.
Per the following link https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-jews-during-the-holocaust it sounds like many/most folks had lost their jobs by the start of the war, and, of course, crystal night occurred in Nov 1938. So the folks in the original post got out in the same year that occurred.

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

Restitution was for being placed in an internment camp. This was a violation of their civil rights as US citizens. Under Reagan, the US gave surviving internees $20k each. One of my uncles received that $20k, not sure about anyone else in the family.

Right, $20k while not nothing, doesn't come close to repaying or repairing what was done.

"In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 which officially apologized for the incarceration on behalf of the U.S. government and authorized a payment of $20,000 (equivalent to $52,000 in 2023) to each former detainee who was still alive when the act was passed."

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

Ya, you really don't liquidate. However, if you were lucky you had neighbors who understood and took care of your farm or store until you returned. That was rare, but did happen.


As to the painting

Anytime one needs to move goods to leave immediately, that isn't the time to wait for the highest offer. When leave or get rolled up into a ghetto is the choice, or the like, that is duress. Surprised to find that is difficult to fathom

Except that these folks weren't being rounded up and put into ghettos. That didn't happen until after they left the country, at least, that's the case according to the reading that I've done on the subject. These were the fortunate folks who were able to get out before things got really bad (crystal night, ghettos, etc...). But since Crystal Night occurred in 1938, and the original article said that they left in 1938 (and the Nazis had been in power since 1933) I'm sure things were bad.

Still, I believe I said multiple times that things were bad, and these folks probably got pennies on the dollar. My issue was that the article seemed, IMO, to be poorly written, by not including more detail.