build access door through wall into attic - how would you?

[masraum]

I've got an upstairs bathroom and 3 closets that need access doors built that will allow a person to crawl through to get into the attic. Since this is Texas (hot) and this is from conditioned space into unconditioned space, the doors also need to be insulated (probably using foamboard).

I'd like the doors to look decent. I'd kind of like them to "blend in" with the walls as much as possible. Having them insulated, I think, adds a bit of complexity.

2 of the doors will definitely open in. 2 of the doors may be able to open out which is nice/better in some ways but probably adds more complexity to have the face flush with the inside wall.

The openings are 36-44" tall and 18-22" wide.

I've been thinking:

1. frame the holes (already done, one or two may require a header, then finish with corner bead for a square, finished, flush look.
2. build a small hollow door with foam board insulation as "fill." Frame out of 2x2 (or maybe even 1x2) with 1/4" ply for the face (maybe use 3/8" lightrock for the face in the bathroom). Then at least 2-3 layers of 3/4" foam insulation in/behind the frame. I'd originally thought of having a plywood face on the back of the door too, but I'm not sure if that's necessary.
3. some sort of door stop with weatherstriping along the edge. Or maybe a tear drop shaped weather stripping to seal the gap around the door.
4. Possibly using one of those magnetic door catches (bump the door and it pops open) for the bathroom.
   
   Maybe the same for the others or something else (small hook and latch or something simple

Any other thoughts? I've seen some folks that build a frame and attach that to some drywall so the face is drywall. I could go that route in the bathroom where visual aesthetics is more important. I could probably still build the door similarly. I've been using 5/8 fire rated drywall in the house to help with sound, but for a door like that it seems like a "lightrock" 3/8" or 1/2" would be better, still with a frame and foam board. I think you can sometimes get half sheets, or small sheets at some HW stores.

In the closets, the doors will likely be all or mostly hidden behind clothes or boxes so smooth plywood should be "good enough"

Any thoughts, why that won't work, inadequacies, improvements?

[1990C4S]

I would do something with trim that makes a seal, maybe mdf wall paneling/wainscotting? Make them open into the room and the trim plus a magnet hold them closed.

I would also consider making the door a crawl entry, not walk in. Easier to hide.

You don't want hot air coming in.

[stevej37]

Smaller than what you want...but my house has three of these upstairs. They require some bending and sliding, but they aren't used often. They are 14X22"

[look 171]

Steve, no. 2 is twist-o-rama.

Use a hidden cabinet hings (because they are adjustable) for the out swinging. Get Classic core plywood. Due to the MDF outer layers, they stay straight. Glue rigid panel in back due to its lightweight and that helps keep doors from twisting during seasonal changes. Will the area around the door be drywalled? If so, use a metal drywall J-bead, square that up during install and mud over that for that perfect finish. Make sure the gap between the door and the edge of the drywall bead is 13/32" and the 3/4" door will fit perfectly. Cut door to fit hole last once all drywall work is done

Use the none self close hinge (I like Blum) and a baby safety catch so there's no need to have a handle. Upon finish, all you see is a 3/32" gap.

https://www.amazon.com/Rev-Shelf-RL-201-1-52-Lock-Security/dp/B00KYBAJ1K/ref=asc_df_B00KYBAJ1K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693129867830&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7002340911737847136&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030984&hvtargid=pla-308793711723&psc=1&mcid=debe06b7d72f306fb5f705039ac9170f


In terms of sealing the gap for better insulation value, just use a rubber window gasket on the attic side.

[look 171]

Hope you understand the chicken scratch and the mess.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Steve, no. 2 is twist-o-rama.

Use a hidden cabinet hings (because they are adjustable) for the out swinging. Get Classic core plywood. Due to the MDF outer layers, they stay straight. Glue rigid panel in back due to its lightweight and that helps keep doors from twisting during seasonal changes.

Good info, thanks!

Will the area around the door be drywalled? If so, use a metal drywall J-bead, square that up during install and mud over that for that perfect finish. Make sure the gap between the door and the edge of the drywall bead is 13/32" and the 3/4" door will fit perfectly. Cut door to fit hole last once all drywall work is done

Yep, drywalled. Good stuff, thanks again.

Use the none self close hinge (I like Blum) and a baby safety catch so there's no need to have a handle. Upon finish, all you see is a 3/32" gap.

https://www.amazon.com/Rev-Shelf-RL-201-1-52-Lock-Security/dp/B00KYBAJ1K/ref=asc_df_B00KYBAJ1K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693129867830&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7002340911737847136&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030984&hvtargid=pla-308793711723&psc=1&mcid=debe06b7d72f306fb5f705039ac9170f


In terms of sealing the gap for better insulation value, just use a rubber window gasket on the attic side.

Awesome!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I would do something with trim that makes a seal, maybe mdf wall paneling/wainscotting? Make them open into the room and the trim plus a magnet hold them closed.

I would also consider making the door a crawl entry, not walk in. Easier to hide.

You don't want hot air coming in.

The holes are already there, some are bigger, some are smaller depending upon location.Opening into the room is the easiest for sure, and probably the easiest to do, seal, and insulate.

[cabmandone]

Post some pics of what you're dealing with and I might be able to come up with some ideas. Initial thought is use some premium pine boards for the jambs. Frame doors with 1x3 premium lumber and insulate with 3/4" foam board in the center of the frame. Use another 3/4 piece of foam with the foil facing as the interior "facing". This should give you around R-9 I think. Put paintable birch on the side facing out into the room or closet. For the door stop I'd go with a premium 1/2" thick board using a router or run it through a table saw to give yourself a gap to put weather stripping in. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, look at your front door and how the piece that acts as the door stop is cut to allow for weather stripping.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Post some pics of what you're dealing with and I might be able to come up with some ideas. Initial thought is use some premium pine boards for the jambs. Frame doors with 1x3 premium lumber and insulate with 3/4" foam board in the center of the frame. Use another 3/4 piece of foam with the foil facing as the interior "facing". This should give you around R-9 I think. Put paintable birch on the side facing out into the room or closet. For the door stop I'd go with a premium 1/2" thick board using a router or run it through a table saw to give yourself a gap to put weather stripping in. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, look at your front door and how the piece that acts as the door stop is cut to allow for weather stripping.

just a photo I found on the 'Net that's close to portraying our situation. The framing of the walls is 2x4.

I need to make access doors in the knee wall in 4 corners of our home. The hole (gap between the studs) is 18" on one, and ~22" on the other 3. And the height will vary from 36" - 44" depending upon location.

[cabmandone]

Have you looked up "knee wall access door"? If you're dealing with drywall, You can pretty much make the opening a common size couldn't you?
Just an example.
https://marwincompany.com/knee-wall-access-doors.php

[look 171]

Qh, its on the knee wall. Flip that and make it vertical. Frame it just like a mini door and insulate the exterior with rigid foam. Pretend you are building a cabinet door Use a piano hinge to keep one side rigid or jsut use hidden cabinet hinges like I mentioned. Does blended in mean no frame and just 3/32" gap? With paint, it will only have 1/8" or under but expansion will sometimes cause it to bind do bevel your saw and cut a 2 degree or slight bevel on the strike edge. it will never stick on ya unless you have huge wet/dry seasonal changes. Since its only 3/4", there shouldn't be any issues.

On my post, its 3/32" not 13/32.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Have you looked up "knee wall access door"? If you're dealing with drywall, You can pretty much make the opening a common size couldn't you?
Just an example.
https://marwincompany.com/knee-wall-access-doors.php

As old as this house is and the fact that nothing is a standard measurement means, I probably can't use standard sizes. But I'll check it out.

Originally Posted by look 171

Qh, its on the knee wall. Flip that and make it vertical. Frame it just like a mini door and insulate the exterior with rigid foam. Pretend you are building a cabinet door Use a piano hinge to keep one side rigid or jsut use hidden cabinet hinges like I mentioned. Does blended in mean no frame and just 3/32" gap? With paint, it will only have 1/8" or under but expansion will sometimes cause it to bind do bevel your saw and cut a 2 degree or slight bevel on the strike edge. it will never stick on ya unless you have huge wet/dry seasonal changes. Since its only 3/4", there shouldn't be any issues.

On my post, its 3/32" not 13/32.

Yes, our doors are vertical, not horizontal. In the closets, a frame would be fine, but in the bathroom, no frame, just the 3/32" gap would be ideal.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by masraum

As old as this house is and the fact that nothing is a standard measurement means, I probably can't use standard sizes. But I'll check it out.


Yes, our doors are vertical, not horizontal. In the closets, a frame would be fine, but in the bathroom, no frame, just the 3/32" gap would be ideal.

We do it all the time on some of the more modern house we work on. If you want me to clean up the drawing for you, I can do it later tonight. Learning how to make paella with my oldest while mom is kicking back with her feet up on the sofa watching Korean Drama. Wtf, we aren't Korean and do not understand one word of it and her and our friend Cindy Garcia are always glued to the TV and talk about the damn show. I don't get it?

[look 171]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Have you looked up "knee wall access door"? If you're dealing with drywall, You can pretty much make the opening a common size couldn't you?
Just an example.
https://marwincompany.com/knee-wall-access-doors.php

A hardboard door can be cut, fill with expansion foam for rigidity and insert the pine stick back in there in the lower section of the door. Its much cheaper to use a good grade of plywood with adj hinges in case it moves, making Steve the super hero when his wife complains about the sticking door with a simple half a twist of a screwdriver.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

We do it all the time on some of the more modern house we work on. If you want me to clean up the drawing for you, I can do it later tonight. Learning how to make paella with my oldest while mom is kicking back with her feet up on the sofa watching Korean Drama. Wtf, we aren't Korean and do not understand one word of it and her and our friend Cindy Garcia are always glued to the TV and talk about the damn show. I don't get it?

LOL!

Nope, I understand your diagram just fine. Thank you!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

A hardboard door can be cut, fill with expansion foam for rigidity and insert the pine stick back in there in the lower section of the door. Its much cheaper to use a good grade of plywood with adj hinges in case it moves, making Steve the super hero when his wife complains about the sticking door with a simple half a twist of a screwdriver.

That's probably what I'm going to do. The house is pier and beam and does move a lot based on wet and dry periods since the ground moves a lot. Probably not a lot of danger of some of these doors moving much, but I'm sure there'll be some.

[look 171]

Good luck. I sneaked in to watch the vid on paella when I run into a jam on the stove and now I am checking Pelican. What an addition this place is. Let me know if you have questions.

[David]

We have several doors like that in our house going from rooms or closets into attic space behind them. They're just wooden doors with no insulation and there doesn't seem to be much heat transfer.

[herr_oberst]

Walking thru the neighborhood this morning, and this door that someone had put out on the street as a freebee made me think about this thread. This door is about 4' tall.

After seeing this, I'd be tempted to celebrate the little doors instead of trying to hide 'em. I definitely march to a different beat, so I'm sure mine is a minority opinion.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by masraum

That's probably what I'm going to do. The house is pier and beam and does move a lot based on wet and dry periods since the ground moves a lot.

If there is any buried wood, or wood near ground level, take a a long thin screwdriver and see if it punctures it as low as possible. I'll post on my deck rebuild soon.

Also might want to channel uphill water around or away from the foundation with grading. That will also help in the longevity.

You can also buy https://www.homedepot.com/p/Wolman-1-qt-CopperCoat-Green-Below-Ground-Wood-Preservative-6-Pack-1904A/204746310 and spray/brush in on the low spots which will help with termites as well. It's got a strong odor even outdoors so be warned.


I just cut in a square space of 2x12 and have a basic drop-in drywall/plywood/glued foam layers/wrapped sides with aluminum tape so it slides block.
A drop-down ladder is on the upgrade radar, but they are not very well insulated and there might not be space.