Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)
-   -   Question for the Pond Experts - Can I reduce Flow? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1166964-question-pond-experts-can-i-reduce-flow.html)

Tidybuoy 09-12-2024 02:45 PM

Question for the Pond Experts - Can I reduce Flow?
 
My pond pump is too powerful. I tried a smaller pump and it puts out too little. My current pump is creating a waterfall that is almost like Niagra and way too loud.

I'm wondering if it will damage the pump for me to add an in-line ball valve where I can adjust the water pressure.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Vern

stevej37 09-12-2024 02:59 PM

Maybe put a T in the line to the waterfall and direct the second line back into the pond?

1990C4S 09-13-2024 05:20 AM

Yea, diverter T with an orifice in one of the output lines. Maybe make a simple flow control.

masraum 09-13-2024 05:35 AM

I like the above idea of a diverter valve. If it's a valve then you can "tune" it as 1990C4S said.
The only other thing that I could think of which may be problematic would be adjusting the voltage or current to the pump. I know that in some circumstances reduced voltage or current will slow something down without causing issues, but then in other cases, it can harm equipment. I'm not sure how to determine if your pump is the former or latter.

911 Rod 09-13-2024 05:41 AM

Why not just a valve on the line?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726234995.jpg

id10t 09-13-2024 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 12320265)
I like the above idea of a diverter valve. If it's a valve then you can "tune" it as 1990C4S said.
The only other thing that I could think of which may be problematic would be adjusting the voltage or current to the pump. I know that in some circumstances reduced voltage or current will slow something down without causing issues, but then in other cases, it can harm equipment. I'm not sure how to determine if your pump is the former or latter.

Putting a PWM on the power circuit may be able to do that for you, though I think they only work w/ DC stuff... all I know about 'letrissity is that it is to be respected 'cause it can kill you ded

masraum 09-13-2024 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911 Rod (Post 12320271)

Would a valve that limits flow stress the motor with backpressure?

911 Rod 09-13-2024 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 12320283)
Would a valve that limits flow stress the motor with backpressure?

Not sure, but we do this everyday with a well or lake pump.

vash 09-13-2024 07:08 AM

I got a "B" in fluid dynamics. from memory, you won't hurt your pump. I remember everything you add downstream of the pump will add friction. elbows, T's, length of pipe. you could T it off and run a secondary outlet underwater somewhere for added current.

I think if you choke it off with a ball valve type thing, the water exiting that valve will increase in velocity (velocity = flow/area - I think). might be even more noise and excitement.

masraum 09-13-2024 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash (Post 12320353)
I got a "B" in fluid dynamics. from memory, you won't hurt your pump. I remember everything you add downstream of the pump will add friction. elbows, T's, length of pipe. you could T it off and run a secondary outlet underwater somewhere for added current.

I think if you choke it off with a ball valve type thing, the water exiting that valve will increase in velocity (velocity = flow/area - I think). might be even more noise and excitement.

Agreed, reducing aperture will increase pressure/speed.

masraum 09-13-2024 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911 Rod (Post 12320336)
Not sure, but we do this everyday with a well or lake pump.

There you have it, a man speaking from experience. This sounds like the way to go. (assuming pressure/speed increase isn't a problem).

911 Rod 09-13-2024 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 12320383)
There you have it, a man speaking from experience. This sounds like the way to go. (assuming pressure/speed increase isn't a problem).

I nothing but .....when using the sprinkler with my lake pump I adjust the height by closing my valve a bit.

Rusty Heap 09-13-2024 08:03 AM

simple. speed controller on motor.

wdfifteen 09-13-2024 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 12320283)
Would a valve that limits flow stress the motor with backpressure?

The greater the head pressure, the harder the pump has to work.

At the very least, throttling the line will use more electricity because the pump is working harder.

Working harder means more heat, which will shorten the motor's life. Significantly? That would be up to you.

Worst case scenario is the flow is so restricted, there isn't enough water flowing through the pump to keep the motor cool. That will cost ya.

Adding a tee and a line back to the pond with a valve in it that would control the bypass flow would be the best option.

john70t 09-13-2024 11:42 AM

If it's purpose is to put O2 into the water and clean it up, consider an aeration diffuser system instead of sprinkler fountain.
Makes more sense to move air instead of water.

Tidybuoy 09-13-2024 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911 Rod (Post 12320271)

This is what I got and will install this weekend. I'm thinking I only need to restrict by about 25% and this will be the easiest solution. Time will tell if it's hard on the motor but they are not extremely expensive - about $150

Tidybuoy 09-13-2024 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 12320539)
If it's purpose is to put O2 into the water and clean it up, consider an aeration diffuser system instead of sprinkler fountain.
Makes more sense to move air instead of water.

I have an air pump and a diffuser. This pump is recirculating the pond water to a filter and then back to the pond via waterfall. If the ball valve doesn't work (i.e., increasing pressure & sound) then I will divert the water to another area of the pond. I already have two 1.5" lines feeding the waterfall and moving one of them to feed directly into the pond is an easy fix. If I go that route, I have simply added a shutoff valve and that is no big.

masraum 09-13-2024 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 12320424)
The greater the head pressure, the harder the pump has to work.

At the very least, throttling the line will use more electricity because the pump is working harder.

Working harder means more heat, which will shorten the motor's life. Significantly? That would be up to you.

Worst case scenario is the flow is so restricted, there isn't enough water flowing through the pump to keep the motor cool. That will cost ya.

Adding a tee and a line back to the pond with a valve in it that would control the bypass flow would be the best option.

That's what I was thinking (in much less detail). Seems to me that the best solution is to be able to vary the pump volume/time (why I was thinking about vary the voltage/current) (AKA "speed controller on motor" as Rusty Heap said).

Rusty Heap 09-13-2024 07:18 PM

pick your wattage.......... $30.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ac+motor+speed+controller&crid=2ZVMV8FVREFI7&s prefix=ac+motor+speed+controlle%2Caps%2C194&ref=nb _sb_noss_2

red 928 09-14-2024 12:41 AM

Restricting the discharge flow will reduce
the load on the motor.
At deadhead conditions, the HP requirement
it at it's very lowest.

But it can also cause low-flow recirculation
in the impeller.
That causes hydraulic turbulence and vibration
and could reduce the life of the bearings and impeller.
But on a low-energy pond pump
it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal.
As mentioned above, the best way to do it would be
to reduce the speed of the pump.

WPOZZZ 09-14-2024 12:44 AM

For my waterfall, I have a catchment basin of 30 gallons. The filter discharges into the basin, then the overflow creates the waterfall.

stevej37 09-14-2024 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ (Post 12320903)
For my waterfall, I have a catchment basin of 30 gallons. The filter discharges into the basin, then the overflow creates the waterfall.


That's how mine works also...except my basin is about 5 gals.

Rusty Heap 09-15-2024 10:05 AM

My Project is currently in the layout phase.......still placing and angling ponds setting elevations.

Scored a cool LARGE fiberglass waterfall off craigslist for up on the deck, then cascading through several ponds to recirc.






http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726423367.jpg

Ric B 09-15-2024 10:20 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726424332.jpg. My 550 at the Salem Pond. :cool:

masraum 09-15-2024 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric B (Post 12321619)

What sort of water pump does your 550 use? :D

stevej37 09-15-2024 10:52 AM

^^^ It must have the Porsche diverter valve in it. :D

BK911 09-15-2024 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 12320424)
The greater the head pressure, the harder the pump has to work.

At the very least, throttling the line will use more electricity because the pump is working harder.

Working harder means more heat, which will shorten the motor's life. Significantly? That would be up to you.

Worst case scenario is the flow is so restricted, there isn't enough water flowing through the pump to keep the motor cool. That will cost ya.

Adding a tee and a line back to the pond with a valve in it that would control the bypass flow would be the best option.

Reducing flow reduces power consumption.

In our systems we reduce flow by:
Bypass with valve - pump puts out 100% flow but some bypasses back through pump.
Valve after pump - increases pressure drop of system decreasing overall flow.
VFD - varies pump speed electrically

Sometimes we use all 3 depending on application.
In your application, valve after pump.
Make sure you keep it cracked about halfway.

Tidybuoy 09-16-2024 10:35 AM

Well, I have updated my pond situation. I added a ball valve to slightly restrict the flow. This did not have any effect on the pressure at the waterfall because the restriction is increasing the pressure to the inlet of my biological filter, but the output is just a gravity feed once the water level reaches a certain point. A couple of pics below:

From Pond Pump>to Anti-backflow valve> to Flow Control Ball Valve> to UV Filter> to Biological Filter> to Waterfall. Pond is on other side of the fence. The valve is only restricted 25-30%

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726511369.jpg

My Baby Pond:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726511561.jpg


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.