VW in financial trouble

[pwd72s]

Not much to say, really....but wondering how Porsche will be affected?

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/starvation-vw-union-head-warns-3-plants-closing-thousands-layoffs-amid-auto-crisis

[rfuerst911sc]

Another example of poor planning by management trickling down to hurt the workers . Instead of going all in on the latest fad ( EV ) how about you design one EV model and see how it performs/sells . Oh no that's too simple , let's jump in full force and spend billions of dollars and go over the falls . Idiots . And there will be others .

[The Synergizer]

And how about those idiots at Stellantis?

[john70t]

Nissan went "all-in" on the EV.

Their chigau gaijin CEO, Carlos Ghosn, had to escape Japan in a box.
To escape prison.
They are still looking for him...
https://www.theautopian.com/fugitive-ceo-carlos-ghosn-ordered-to-give-his-superyacht-back-to-nissan-is-definitely-not-going-to/

[berettafan]

bought a new gti this past summer. love the car. while at the dealer I sat in their SUVs to see what they were about. bottom line, IMO, generally sporty looking exteriors, severely lacking interiors and zero product separation. It's all the same power plant with different panels around it. who the heck wants a 2 liter full size SUV? just stupid.

[Crowbob]

Supposedly Toyota is on the ropes, too. Very expensive recalls and very late to the hybrid party. From now on all Camrys are hybrid. Build date over a year for Prius Prime PHEV.

Don’t know if it s true.

[911boost]

Toyota invented the hybrid with the Prius........

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Another example of poor planning by management trickling down to hurt the workers . Instead of going all in on the latest fad ( EV ) how about you design one EV model and see how it performs/sells . Oh no that's too simple , let's jump in full force and spend billions of dollars and go over the falls . Idiots . And there will be others .

VW tried that, but figured out that their “engineers” (like most of the major cars on companies) aren’t the correct ones for the new technology, hence, VW invested heavily in a company who’s engineers understand the technology and needs.

[aschen]

Toyota late to the hybrid party?


Volkwagon audi has nobody to blame but themselves. GTI has always been decent but their core cars really havent been compelling in a long time. Mostly I think you have all the pain of german car ownership with none of the charm. TDI was their savior for a while but we know how that story goes.


I think we maybe due for a near term reckoning on many car brands: VW, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Alfa (in the us anyways), Infinity, jeep, dodge.

Besides tesla, some of the other EV newcomers will replace these brands in a decade or so. Rivian, lucid, or whatever EV company comes around for second place

It is assured EVs will continue to gain marketshare it will just take longer than politicians thought

[Crowbob]

Yes. Toyota did invent hybrids. At least they were the first to build and market one.

But subsequently, supposedly, somebody dropped the ball. I think it was one of the Toyodas himself, which is why we aren’t hearing much about it.

[fastfredracing]

[QUOTE=aschen;12347751]Toyota late to the hybrid party?
Mostly I think you have all the pain of german car ownership with none of the charm.

That pretty much nails it for me . There was a time , when I loved VW, they lost me sometime in the late 90's .
Most of it is boooring yawn .
I've thought about a GTI so many times over the years, for a fun fast hot hatch, then reality sets in " why would I do that to myself "

[john70t]

Originally Posted by 911boost

Toyota invented the hybrid with the Prius........

Small correction:
Ferdinand Porsche 'invented' the hybrid with the Porsche Miixte.
(about 1900)

And then diesel-electric Panzers during WW2.
(which were also over-engineered lol.)

Today's premier US Army tanks, M1 Abrams, are kerosene turbine-electric hybrid.
They can travel for half a block until refueling is need.

[aschen]

Hybrid is a pretty broad term, but the real engineering triumph from Toyota is what they term "hybrid synergy drive" sometimes called ecvt.

Much more elegant than incorporating an electric motor in parallels with a conventional drive train or using a bunch of clutches to engage and disengage drive components. It uses 2 motors and a single planetary gear set to manage power for the prius, highlander, sienna and rav4. I think bigger trucks and some lexus vehicle get a more conventional hybrid system with multi speed gearboxes.

[RANDY P]

VW is European. To them EV IS the future- why they are all-in. What they miscalculated was the acceptance rate.

Here, not so much.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

VW is European. To them EV IS the future- why they are all-in. What they miscalculated was the acceptance rate.

Here, not so much.

Europe and UK car companies are being forced into selling EV's by the European and UK government's/policy makers way too fast

EV charging infrastructure isn't mature enough and new EV's are unaffordable

Was obvious to any idiot a period of transition of hybrids is needed to develop the EV technology before going full EV

2nd hand EV prices have plummeted, in the UK more diesel cars were sold in the last few months than new EV's as buyers are not buying into the EV dream

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

VW tried that, but figured out that their “engineers” (like most of the major cars on companies) aren’t the correct ones for the new technology, hence, VW invested heavily in a company who’s engineers understand the technology and needs.

And how is that working out ?

[WSH]

Hey, I've got an idea: let the consumer decide

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by The Synergizer

And how about those idiots at Stellantis?

or Boeing

[Alan A]

VW is in trouble.

Good. Serves them right for switching from cheap ok cars to pricy electric ones no one wants.
Capitalism amirite…

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Europe and UK car companies are being forced into selling EV's by the European and UK government's/policy makers way too fast

EV charging infrastructure isn't mature enough and new EV's are unaffordable

Was obvious to any idiot a period of transition of hybrids is needed to develop the EV technology before going full EV

2nd hand EV prices have plummeted, in the UK more diesel cars were sold in the last few months than new EV's as buyers are not buying into the EV dream

I wish diesels were available here again.
We had a Jetta diesel wagon for a while - it got ungodly good gas mileage on the highway.