Hanging lights between joists

[zakthor]

I’m putting t8 fixtures between joists. Joists are 22.5” apart. Joists are 8’ up.

I want the bottoms of the lights even with the joists so I don’t lose overhead, so fixtures must be centered to spread light properly.

I’ve got some old 1x4 scrap so thinking I’d run 1x4 between joists to hold the fixture brackets. I made a form so can place everything perfectly…. Was thinking to toe nail the 1x4 into the joists but… it’s weak old wood, 1x4 probably will crack. Looked online but not seeing any cheap plastic brackets to hold 1x4.

How would you mount the fixtures up between the joists? Fixtures maybe weigh 5lb each.

I could use chain but it would be aggrevating.

[rwest]

Pre drill holes in the wood and use screws so the boards don’t crack.

[Crowbob]

There are brackets with adjustable lengths on which are electrical boxes. These are mounted between the joists. Not meant to be exposed. Something like this:

https://i0.wp.com/litestoreusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/75806-Arlington-FBRS4200R-Steel-Fan-Fixture-Mounting-Box-with-Adjustable-Mounting-Bracket.jpg?fit=800%2C800&ssl=1

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by rwest

Pre drill holes in the wood and use screws so the boards don’t crack.

I’ve got to install 48 of these boards. 200 fasteners. I’ve got a nail gun… I’m too much of a wimp to predrill and screw them all.

I can just go buy newer wood but id prefer to use up this nasty old decking.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

There are brackets with adjustable lengths on which are electrical boxes. These are mounted between the joists. Not meant to be exposed. Something like this:

https://i0.wp.com/litestoreusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/75806-Arlington-FBRS4200R-Steel-Fan-Fixture-Mounting-Box-with-Adjustable-Mounting-Bracket.jpg?fit=800%2C800&ssl=1

That’s extremely heavy duty. Not to mention it looks a little pricey. Am I underestimating how strong the mounts should be?

[john70t]

Use pre-drilled screws instead of nails. Use 2x4 instead of 1x4 between the joists. Maybe even hangers for more strength and accuracy.

If ceiling is finished there are heavy-duty drywall anchors rated for 50# ea.
Don't have to patch and paint.
They will only be as strong as the drywall: Non-damp location, 1/2" min, screwed next to the load point.

[Alan A]

If it’s finishing level why not just screw to joist? They need to be supported on multiple sides?

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by zakthor

That’s extremely heavy duty. Not to mention it looks a little pricey. Am I underestimating how strong the mounts should be?

There are lighter-weight products not meant to support much of anything. Much cheaper, too. I used a similar product to hang fixtures centered on the ceiling panels which fell between the existing joists.

[70SATMan]

Is it open space above the joists or is there sheathing/sub floor? Depending, I’d find it far more aggravating and time consuming installing wood hangers (even 2x4) between the joists. Each piece would need to measured pretty accurately for good fit. No way would I bother with 1x4 in the method you’re suggesting. Not because it wouldn’t hold, just the pain in the A$$ install work.

Since you’re saying you want to run the lights parallel with the joists and up into the space between the joists with nothing proud of the joist bottoms, I’d do lightweight chain IF there’s sheathing on top of the joists to screw into.

If nothing above the joists and your lighting layout has multiple fixtures lined up side by side, you could also drill perpendicular through the joists in-line and run heavy galv wire from one side completely through to the other which would create hangers like the 1x4s in your mind. Then hang the lights from the wire using S hooks.

I’d also use MC cable directly into the lights and not use boxes.

[john70t]

For future reference:
I had a bunch of new 4' T-8 florescent ballasts go bad. Different mfrs.
It might have been the damn Sylvania 'green eco' bulbs I used, or transformer spikes, or other.

I tried a bunch of those 'Plug-and-Play' 'Direct replacement' LED bulbs. Different mfrs.
None worked. They still use the juice from the ballast.

I started converting the fixtures to Ballast-Bypass LED. Marked the fixture so nobody else would use the wrong bulbs.
So much better now. Instant on. Full bright even in cold weather. No flicker.
And you can get different spectrum color tone bulbs.

It can be tricky.
Use the correct new small wire nuts and carefully wrap tight with tape starting from the wires.
Use logic, not necessarily the chart. Some bulbs use both sides.
If your cord isn't marked, split it and use a Non Contact Voltage Tester Pen to find the hot side.
https://www.rablighting.com/downloads/instructions/t8-ballast-bypass-single-ended.pdf

[Zeke]

You don't say where on the joists the 1 x 4's are but you should just use cleats above or below the 1 x 4's and not edge toe nail them with a gun. Nail the face if you can from below the cleats at an angle towards the joists.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Is it open space above the joists or is there sheathing/sub floor? Depending, I’d find it far more aggravating and time consuming installing wood hangers (even 2x4) between the joists. Each piece would need to measured pretty accurately for good fit. No way would I bother with 1x4 in the method you’re suggesting. Not because it wouldn’t hold, just the pain in the A$$ install work.

Since you’re saying you want to run the lights parallel with the joists and up into the space between the joists with nothing proud of the joist bottoms, I’d do lightweight chain IF there’s sheathing on top of the joists to screw into.

If nothing above the joists and your lighting layout has multiple fixtures lined up side by side, you could also drill perpendicular through the joists in-line and run heavy galv wire from one side completely through to the other which would create hangers like the 1x4s in your mind. Then hang the lights from the wire using S hooks.

I’d also use MC cable directly into the lights and not use boxes.

Ok! I wanted to avoid going into the weeds but what the heck. You need to know more to better think outside the box. And maybe you'll point out some other ways I'm being dumb and bad. Please let me know I welcome all criticisms, constructive or not.

The fixtures are sunco vapor-sealed direct-wired single-sided led t8, they were $21 each. I'm feeding them with soow from a nema4x junction box. Six lights per box. The soow and liquidtight conduit travel through holes in the wood above the joist.

This is for a covered work area next to the house. The 2x12 joists are all covered by 2x12 cut diagonally lengthwise to provide a slope for the polycarbonate roof. So the overhead 'sheathing' is sloped.

The area is dry but for code and wiring purposes its the summit of k2.

You're sure right its tricky cutting the 1x4. I've made 8 pieces to 1/32 and they go right in but yeah its tedious. I just didn't think about the toe nailing. It is crappy wood but also its old dry douglas fir that doesn't want to be nailed.

I'm going to think through this wire idea. I'd need 4 wires and some small holes. I could build a piece to place the holes. Wow thats a pretty nifty idea.

Only thing that gives me pause is that the hanging fixtures can move and maybe that is no bueno because the soow comes through the joist above. With a static fixture there'd be no motion. I guess I'll need to ask inspector.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by Zeke

You don't say where on the joists the 1 x 4's are but you should just use cleats above or below the 1 x 4's and not edge toe nail them with a gun. Nail the face if you can from below the cleats at an angle towards the joists.

I want to place the 1x4 at 3 1/2" from the bottom of the joist.

Yeah the face nailing will really suck, the wood is old and too hard. I didn't even try.

What sort of cleat are you talking about? I just need the cheapest plastic joist hangery-type thing to hold them in place. I need about 50 of them so price matters.

[70SATMan]

If I'm understanding correctly, your joists are level and the slope is created by the cross boards on top?? If so, then I'd definitely do the solid wire hanger. Chain hanging is allowed by codes so, I wouldn't sweat the S hooks on a wire hanger. Even with sloping sheathing, I'd still do chain vs the between board stringers.

If the wiring is protected as it appears then the TYPC MC can still be used. SOOW is overkill IMO and then the armored would take care of any movement issues you might have. It'll also be easier to route and install. Also, you mentioned liquidtight conduit?? Is that feeder to the J-boxes? You should not run any bundled cable within conduit. Only individual circuit wires.

If the height wasn't an issue, I'd be screwing the fixtures directly onto the joists cross ways instead of parallel between the joists but, I understand you wanting to maximize the overhead clearance.

[look 171]

Don't over think or engineer this. Forget toe nailing and all that you see on U tube or a book. Your light weight nothing so this is what I would do and forget nails, use a self-drilling deck screw and a drill. Save your elbow or your manly arm muscles to the pretty girls.

[look 171]

All right, where did my picture go?

BTW, those round circles are your lights

[look 171]

Oh, forgot. Instead of measuring each one, make a jig and mark it with a pencil and hammer or screw away.

[zakthor]

Ok well i had 45 minutes today before it got dark. Experimented with some scrap bits and toe nailing works fine. Put the 1x4s into one ‘bay’ : Two nails per side and i can do a pullup on a span.

I measure each span with laser measure and they come out just fine.

Tomorrow ill align two lights, cut a piece to space the brackets on the spans and if i can cajole an assistant this will be done pretty quick.

I was hoping there was an easier way but this will be fine.

Ps: Think for the group think i didnt want to miss something obvious. Ive got a nail gun so screws suck.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

If I'm understanding correctly, your joists are level and the slope is created by the cross boards on top?? If so, then I'd definitely do the solid wire hanger. Chain hanging is allowed by codes so, I wouldn't sweat the S hooks on a wire hanger. Even with sloping sheathing, I'd still do chain vs the between board stringers.

If the wiring is protected as it appears then the TYPC MC can still be used. SOOW is overkill IMO and then the armored would take care of any movement issues you might have. It'll also be easier to route and install. Also, you mentioned liquidtight conduit?? Is that feeder to the J-boxes? You should not run any bundled cable within conduit. Only individual circuit wires.

If the height wasn't an issue, I'd be screwing the fixtures directly onto the joists cross ways instead of parallel between the joists but, I understand you wanting to maximize the overhead clearance.

The area isnt dry. Electrician said it needed to be treated as wet.

Conduit is to boxes. Soow is whips from boxes to fixtures.

Youre probably right about the chain. Sounds pretty easy now as i sit by the fireplace…. eh… i guess ill learn the hard way.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by rwest

Pre drill holes in the wood and use screws so the boards don’t crack.

Ha, those were going to be my exact words.