I have yet to see much Fed aid to WNC to attach strings to.

Whose fault that WNC does not have an ocean/ports/etc.? God's?

Hurricane Helene affected the following states:

Florida: Made landfall in Florida's Big Bend region
Georgia: Experienced catastrophic damage
North Carolina: Experienced severe destruction, with about half of all deaths occurring in the state
South Carolina: Experienced catastrophic damage
Tennessee: Experienced catastrophic damage
Virginia: Experienced catastrophic damage

Hurricane Helene also caused damage in Alabama, Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia.

As I understand it, Asheville was largely a tourist, retirement, and college town, and pretty small at 100K pop. Before Helene, the town was growing fast, unemployment low (3-4%), on many “best places” lists - so seems hard to (rationally) claim local govt was running it into the ground.

What’s the future hold? Having the colleges there is very helpful, but the tourism/retirement industry . . . Not sure when that comes back.

As for roads and bridges, considering Helene was all of three months ago, I’d think are still in the cleanup/debris clearance phase. There is a ton of Fed infrastructure funding available but it takes years not weeks or months.

If you have lived there (unless wealthy), it is hard to claim that it has not been run into the ground. Crime in the city is quite high (largely due to homelessness (which the city entertains gleefully) and the city's reimagining police work and defunding the police. There is very little industry/work/middle class. Yes...it is a nice place to pass through as a tourist (it is very pretty), but it is almost impossible to make a decent living. Yes...if you have money (earned elsewhere), it is a good place to move to/retire as you can outbid the poor locals for housing and then they can wait on you in restaurants for minimum wage. It is often ranked as a nice place to visit but not to live.

The colleges are liberal arts...no medicine, engineering, law. Little to help locals improve their lot (maybe teach). The only jobs for liberal arts majors there are service industry (fast food and hotels) with low wages. When any good jobs come to the area, the companies hire (for any their decently paid jobs) from elsewhere. These folks also come in and bid up the prices on housing. It is hard to attract tech/industry when there are no engineering schools. A "tourism/retirement industry" is not one where most folks (adults) can make a living. The only ones that are making bank on fast food and hotels are the folks that own them that live elsewhere. It is why there are so many working poor there now.

Tell someone that cannot get to their home that it is reasonable to have to wait for years to build a path for them.

Asheville is like many other overly gentrified spots-great place to live if you have $$, or to hang out in for a short time ie vacation, but the folks that make that happen can't afford the place. So they live outside of town in some area that may or may not have survived the storm. Most of WNC is like that, in fact much of Appalachia runs that risk-the "cool" towns are gentrifying and driving out the original residents and funky folks that made them "cool" as housing becomes stressed/unfordable.
Its not quite like living in a van in Jackson or Aspen, but that's the idea.

You're describing economic issues broadly faced in similar tertiary cities/large towns and their lower-skill, lower-income residents - all over, not just in NC or even in the US. Hardly unique to Asheville.

As for the person waiting for the road to their home to be rebuilt - that's why they're called "disasters" rather than "inconveniences", I guess?

I get a strong feeling that you have never lived in rural NC or Asheville (as I have).

One would have hoped that things would have improved in the city (and surrounding area) in the last 50 years, but it has not. I have watched with my own two eyes. Things are actually worse. The area is neglected by the Federal and State government. City leaders continue to do stupid things that drive up taxes and then waste them on nonsense. They are only concerned with tourism that lines the pockets of those that buy them. The lack of a middle class or enough industry to have one seems an easy yardstick to measure with. There will never be one without schools or industry.

If the road to Martha's Vineyard was gone...or the one to Beverly Hills...how many years would it take before at least some sort of road was constructed so folks could get to their homes? Surely not the "years" you expect these citizens to wait. A lot of people still lived on dirt roads before this storm...but now there are no roads in some places.

Okay, fine, everything sucks. Can we get back to post-Helene status? I wasn't really asking about the last 50 years in one particular town.

Fint is entitled to his opinions ... but he does not speak for other NC natives or folks who live in Asheville.

My relatives and friends who live there .... thrive :)

But they have been hit hard ... as have a lot of folks.

Asheville is a small thriving city ... pretty unique in the NC mtns ... and just 2 hours away .... I am familiar with it ;).

Rebuilding will take years tho', and they will ... it's what folks do.

Other mtn towns like Boone and the Ski areas, touristy areas, and the still rural, impoverished areas..... are nothing like Asheville ... a different world.

Carry on ...

Asheville will :)

Why minimize the issues that people face there (as has been done more than once here)? There is a big difference between a person that has worked their entire life on a tiny wage to own a tiny home and have it destroyed in a day by flooding (when there is no insurance compensation) and a person with a million-dollar home destroyed elsewhere where insurance will pay them for replacement and likely a place to live while they rebuild?

If you were not interested in the rest of the story, then why refute what I posted (a person that spent many years there, owns multiple properties there, and still lives there part of the year?

KC is entitled to his opinions ... but he does not speak for other NC natives or folks like me who live in Asheville.

Asheville is devastated....and far from thriving. The surrounding area is worse. Lucky folks like me lost thousands. Others lost everything. Yes. Rebuilding will be done by more carpetbaggers who will come in and buy the land/small family farms from those that lost everything and have no money to rebuild.

Asheville will be rebuilt (as the state and county will pour money into repairs for tourism). Little will be done to improve life for locals/natives (or those outside city limits). They will be stuck doing the service jobs for that tourism or moving elsewhere (as they cannot afford to buy in their own hometown). Rural areas will suffer for many years.

Poor fint :(

My objection, and this is a 100% outsider perspective. My dad was from Randleman, does that count?:)

FEMA took forever to show up for aid. When FEMA showed up they actively interfered with the aid efforts that were being managed by locals, i.e. you can’t go up that road/trail it’s too dangerous. Or you can’t rebuild because now your land is a flood plain. FEMA offered a $750 check that many residents say is nearly impossible to claim. A few weeks later FEMA says they are all out of money and basically jumps ship.

Contrast with, CA fires and the government says they will 100% fund relief efforts for 180 days. Double standard much?

You never went there I guess.
The local government ruined what was once a lovely town. Soft on crime policies made it … unpleasant …

Have you been to Boone in the last few years?
The amount of construction there was insane. 321 was a construction site.

But then to be fair so was 25 south from Asheville. Too many Yankees retiring there and bringing their voting habits.

My take ... watching the recovery efforts here ... destined for the mtns.

The local, state, private, and federal responses were ALL overwhelmed ... but they were doing the best they could with limited access and infrastructure damage.

Could it have been better ... of course!

Don't know what you guys expected ... and why ;)?

Same as it ever was in rural NC areas ... west, piedmont, or east.

Or even Pettyville : D

To me at least, the local and state folks were doing their absolute best. At the federal level, the people who call themselves the EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY? Huge disappointment. They have one job and they totally botched it.

And from what I watched daily on the local news reports, the Fed was doing what was needed by the state, local, and private efforts... and it was massive... and yet not nearly enough. The nature of disasters ... methinks.

Yeah I’m not there so I’m stuck with fake news from halfway across the country….

Poor KC. I guess your home was spared (obviously).

From what I have seen in person, they are not. Most real help has come from volunteers and charities. Maybe you need some better news sources.

Millions are earmarked to fix the parkway and the interstate (as expected) so others can pass through...but no one seems to be fixing local roads and bridges. A lot of money may have been spent, but it does not seem to be getting to those most in need.

According to the Charlotte Observer (state newspaper), '78 roads only have partial access to four-wheel-drive vehicles and 184 roads remain closed as of today.'

The Observer also noted that 'Asheville had the highest unemployment rate – 6.1 % – of any metropolitan region in North Carolina in Nov for the second month in a row." Since it only counts folks that can and are actively seeking employment...it is likely much higher. One can only imagine what it will have worsened to when Dec is reported.

The paper also reported that 'at the end of November, Buncombe County alone had a total 1,152 kids without permanent homes (mostly due to the disaster), some living in tents, cars and campers.'

I don't think Feds have set foot in most of the county (or the state for that matter) as there are not even roads in many areas for them to travel on (per the article above) ...although they claim to have visited all local communities. I have only seen volunteers....and paid for the services I have received (at probably 4 times the cost it should have been). I can afford it, but it was not always that way...so I can empathize. Apparently other folks cannot.

Millions are earmarked to fix the parkway and the interstate so others can pass through...but no one seems to be fixing local roads and bridges. As noted, 78 roads have partial access to four-wheel-driive and 184 roads remain closed as of today.

I think fint is just full of facts and FOS .... and one of the out-of-state whiners who just likes to whine. Most NC natives I know aren't like you, nor am I.... thankfully. Not at all... and the NC natives I know are thriving and happy .... WTF happened to you?

You should get out more. Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you tell them how they fit. The eastern part of the state is nothing like the mountains. If you don’t see the suffering, you don’t know much about the western part of the state at all. Of course you think you know it better than someone that grew up there and spends much of each year there….because you read about it in the news…provided by folks that did not go there either.

Fint, Let me ask an uncomfortable question directly to avoid hemming and hawing.

If there's a difference in response in rebuilding areas, how much of that is because of expected economic return? I know people live in hard-hit areas, but what did they provide to other people outside of those areas such that they would want the government to make it a priority to rebuild?

In other words, what is the industry of the mountainous areas that the rest of the state and country are desperate to get going again using public funds? There's the human interest, of course, but since when has the government ever done anything just because it was the right thing to do, and not because it was of economic or political value?

Edit: The question on industry sounded rhetorical but is genuine--what comes out of the area that makes money for wealthy people or the government?

I expect it has more to do with influence. That is why I find it difficult to be silenced about the issue here as some are wont to try to do. As soon as you pretend there is no problem and stop talking about it, a search for solutions goes away and the squeaky wheel gets the grease (smaller but more "popular" problems in more affluent communities). As throughout my lifetime, problems in rural Appalachia are ignored and folks look the other way. As I noted...schools, roads, bridges, housing are all ignored until wealthier people come and find a way to take the land from the inhabitants (or find a way to use them).

Back to your question...I believe the response is largely based on population and how they vote or contribute money (wealth/political affiliation?) …and I do not believe it should be that way. Folks (taxpayers) that live in one part of the state (or county) are just as deserving of decent roads as another. There is no reason why wealthy people in million-dollar homes in the same county should have well-maintained paved roads for almost a century yet the poor still live on unmaintained dirt roads in 2025. The same was true for electricity, running water, phone service and internet.

An example...Why should a child have to miss weeks of school each year because they live on that dirt road (bus stops at the end of the pavement for snow or ice) almost every time it snows while other kids do not? All it does is increase the chances that child will get poor grades/drop out and have the same financial struggles as an adult as his parents. If K-12 schooling is a basic right for citizens, then the ability to get to school and not be excluded should be the same. After a big snow, the poor kids are stuck at home while the more affluent are back in class. A week later (sometimes two) when the snow melts off, the rural poor kids come back to class way behind. Sometimes (although they are not supposed to) they get an F for assignments or with much less time for projects as teachers are pretty quick to forget that they were not there (a handful from each class). They miss school sports and lose their positions on teams, miss school pictures, theatrical productions, the day the military recruiter or the college admissions guy came by to recruit/talk about scholarships, etc. through no fault of their own. If the busses cannot service all bus routes, then school should be cancelled for all. Pretty soon, the poor folk's roads would be fixed, and they would be cleared after storms like everyone else's. Now, few know or care.

As far as your question regarding industry. There essentially is none. There were once small manufacturers...sewing factories paying minimum wages, but those went overseas. Others went to where there was illegal immigrant labor and where they could pay less than minimum wages and use child workers.

There never will be any real manufacturing...as the infrastructure does not and will never support it. Over time, the land will be bought up by wealthy carpet baggers who prefer it to stay that way...so they can eventually take it/buy it up for pennies and use it for vacation homes and logging/mining...and the residents will end up in some urban cesspool/ghetto or working in their service industry as many do now. Then the roads/infrastructure will come/be repaired. For the new masters/owners. A disaster like this (where insurance will not make folks whole and a begrudging response by state and Federal government) speeds the process of displacing the locals in favor of out of more favored folks who grease politicians' pockets from elsewhere.

Restoring infrastructure is always going to be by priority order. Obviously a major road is going to get repaired before a minor road, and a dirt road that serves a few homes is going to be last.

On the “hollowing out” of that area, and countless other rural areas, what exactly is the solution? What will cause a company to locate a factory, logistics facility, semiconductor fab, data center, etc there?

Unless someone can solve that puzzle, the area had to play the cards it was been dealt. Natural beauty, cute old town, artists, brewers - what’s the best hand you can make from that? Desirable tourist and affluent retirement and college town seem pretty logical.

I don’t know if those are still the cards, or if some of them are gone and not coming back. That’s kind of what I’m trying to ask in this thread.

As noted earlier, hundreds of roads are out, not just dirt roads. We diverged into dirt roads (that serve quite a few homes) because we were discussing your second question (infrastructure). Of course, no one will relocate industry to a place where there is no infrastructure.

It seems to me that each tax-paying citizen in a county/state deserve equal consideration in having the state/county-maintained road to their home/property to be maintained. The dirt roads should have been paved decades ago just as other folks' roads.

You make it sound like the bush country in Africa where wealthy people from the outside come to spend money to see the wildlife and gawk at uncivilized natives in tents. Liberal Arts college students and social security retirees (with the proceeds from their expensive home sold elsewhere) bring nothing but higher prices for locals that do not share in the hotel/restaurant/tourist profits. The competition for goods and services (and particularly homes) simply prices them out further. As noted with the critique earlier, a college that taught something that could be used for a decent salary would go a long way to help...but the city/county/state government lauded here simply do not make choices like that.

The road to the rich guy's house should have no priority over the road to the poor guy's home. It should be a priority for everyone to be able to get to/from their home (as well as fire trucks, police, ambulances, etc.). Not just the monied few. We are not talking major roads/Interstates here. They serve everyone.

For the bolded--how much of the disparity in provision of services do you see in more suburban or urban areas? Interestingly enough there are many very wealthy neighborhoods near me that have dirt or gravel roads, even within 15 miles on downtown Detroit. If areas of poor housing are getting the **** end of the stick close to cities while the wealthy get the best, yes that's a bad use of public funds.

If we're talking remote, rural areas, though? My realpolitik question is: Does it make sense for the public to be on the hook for providing the same infrastructure and services to remote areas that don't provide significant economic benefit?

Edit: Thanks for your detailed response, though, it's interesting to hear about lived experiences for these regions.

I really cannot think of any wealthy areas in that county that have dirt/gravel roads. That seems pretty odd (even for Detroit). In general, the state builds and maintains the roads. A state road to a residence in a wealthy part of the state (or county) or to a home in a poorer part of the state (or county) should have equal consideration. The narrow dirt parts are dangerous and very difficult for many cars even without a disaster.

I am not sure how you define "remote, rural areas." They are remote due to poor roads, but people commute to jobs in the city. There are others, but the dirt roads I am talking about are about 15 miles from the center of Asheville as the crow flies or 25 miles by existing roads. I think I have walked every foot of it as I had to walk/hitchhike to or from work/school functions starting in the 7th or 8th grade to my elementary school 6 miles away. Then about 9 more (15 total) to high school and the entire 25 miles to things in the city. After school to Asheville to work was only about 10 miles (actually less ... probably 6 or 7 mi because I only worked on that end of the city). I was already the 15 miles closer because the bus took me to high school. One could almost always get a ride (hitchhiking) for part of the way as a young teen (even late at night coming home) because you looked harmless (and folks felt sorry for you because it was cold/wet).

Yes, the public should be on the hook for the road to poor folks houses the same as for rich ones. Both ay taxes. Some not as much, but after 100 years of taxes, folks should have contributed enough to have a road.

It is weird and I don't know how or why it's like this, but check this out on satellite: https://maps.app.goo.gl/EybJ4KQkH95HZ9ea8

That residential road is a mile and a half from the priciest mall in the state. It's a mystery.

But when I'm talking about remote I'm talking about the places I've been through in west NC and TN where there's a town of 50 people at a crossroads over a stream in the middle of nowhere. When something happens there's going to be no motivation from the state to repair that infrastructure unless that crossroads impacts freight through the state. If we're talking dirt roads close to town that become inaccessible to school buses when it snows so those kids just don't get picked up then no, that's a problem.

I would guess those are private roads on private property. The subdivision my home in Virginia is in is similar and has private (but poorly paved) roads. The builder planned it that way to save money. The state/county will take them over/maintain them if the subdivision (HOA) will expand/build them to their standards first. Since the subdivision is large and spread out (10+ acre lots), it would be very expensive to improve them as necessary now (a couple million dollars total). Most residents refuse to have their HOA fees raised that much....so we have to pay for any maintenance/repairs just like in a gated community (ours is not presently gated).

Yes. Wealthy outsiders and their property have no needs to cross these roads. But, I don't see that as the important issue here.

These roads have been barely accessible to school busses as long as I can remember. I well remember the bus turning around and dumping out the kids where the pavement ended when there was snow...and walking home in my sneakers (with holes in the bottom). I usually gave the small kids (6- or 7-year-olds) a ride on my shoulders when it was not too icy. I tried to walk down and get the bus on subsequent days (as I knew it would not come up that stretch), but it was difficult (steep and slippery) and it was almost impossible to time the bus as it also skipped any other slippery dirt roads. Since it was a 2hr bus ride, it was always still dark and cold to get there any earlier and stand for an hour...to only walk the two miles back home to find out school was cancelled or on a 2-hour hold. I usually just stayed home and cut wood, hunted, or read a book on those days. It was bad enough that it was that way in the 60s/70's... but this is 2025. Kids should not have to suffer to go to school.

I have family and friends who have lived in Asheville and the NC mtns for decades. I watch daily local news reports from 3 local stations reporting throughout... from reporters who grew up, went to school, etc. there.... and I am right here at ground zero for efforts heading west. I see real NC people making decisions and making progress. The rescue efforts have been intense... but not perfect.

Fint .... contact your NC senators and your NC state legislature reps.

Or just ***** on a car forum...

You have never lived there and have never witnessed the current devastation (or suffered from it). You have lived your life in the wealthiest area of the state with many fabulous colleges (with multiple schools of engineering, law, and medicine), military bases, plentiful Federal and state jobs, and almost obscene with job opportunities. You had parents with the wherewithal to send you to college and you often brag about your well-paying job and retiring in your 40s. As noted, you should walk a mile in the shoes of someone that had nothing and had to leave home for a decent job...or any opportunity beyond toiling in the fields or flipping hamburgers for folks like you. Maybe you should take your remarks that trivialize the suffering of these folks elsewhere.

"Ground zero" is not where you are and not where you will ever be. You should see the world before you tell those that have what it is like.

I have never met or ever even heard of a reporter that came from the poor, dirt farm, dirt-road poverty of the rural Appalachian Mountains where I grew up. I would know them as that entire end of the county went to the same high school. I have met few with even a decent job (unless they fled the area while rather young like I did). Yet you somehow listen to reporters from there every day. Amazing. Why are they not on the stations I watch in Asheville or eastern TN? I just watched a piece on the Fox Business Channel (national news) today that featured an NC Congressman who described exactly what I have here (and the lack of assistance by FEMA).

Yes, I do keep up with the area (every day) ...as I live there for part of the year, have a home there and invest there (even though I can make a better return elsewhere). I have friends and family that live there. Visiting a brew pub in the gentrified area of Asheville where out of state owners lure tourists and hippies and take advantage of cheap labor and local tax dollars (which are largely spent to attract tourism) really does not count.

The question was asked about how things were in the area (in this car forum). I a explained the situation (someone that has been there and seen the devastation) ...and received nothing but derision, nonsense, and personal attacks from those that have not. Of course, that is why so little has been done by governmental entities (just as always for that region) ...because it is easier to spout misinformation and ignore actual issues.

"Rescue efforts" by governmental entities have not been "intense" as you seem to believe. They were late in some areas and nonexistent in others. As always, the wealthy and influential will eventually be helped and the rest will continue to suffer....and guys like you will have sore arms from patting yourself on the back and telling others just how virtuous you were/are.

The wealthy political class that you defer to is not interested and have had decades to make long term decisions and investments in the area and have not. They recognize that there are not enough votes and/or payoffs to be had from the rural poor or are as misinformed as you (never been there). The answer is not to quickly move on from this disaster to the next and sweep these poor people under the rug once again. Stop trying to make this political and get it hidden in PARF (as you are wont to do) when the world is not as you perceive it to be (when your argument fails). If you have no actual information to provide and don't want to discuss it, you should probably just leave this to those that do.

Complaining on a car forum (in an off-topic area) is a good start. Otherwise, folks on that forum think things are great...because you will tell them that. Obviously, there is interest, or the question would not have been asked. One has to start somewhere.

A positive story courtesy of the Amish, https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1914679392632033447

I am friends with a number of the Amish and Mennonite folks here. Some have been helping as well...lots of connection between the folks here and in PA.

They have helped me on the farm since I moved here with all the old tobacco barns. From decades ago:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1745422442.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1745422442.jpg