Gas line repair for the home and Merry Christmas

[otto_kretschmer]

Two weeks ago South West Gas showed up at my house and did a drop test on my house's natural gas system and found there was a leak somewhere. They shut the gas off and now I have to either fix it myself or get a licensed plumber.

The last time I used a plumber he charged an excessive amount compared to the amount of work he did. Commercial property requires a licensed plumber but there is an exemption if you are the home owner.

Technically the job is simple. The leak is in the foundation so I'm going to bypass the old system and replumb the house. I'll use schedule 40 black steel pipe I can get at the local plumbing supply or either of the big box stores. It threads together with the yellow teflon tape and pipe dope to seal. I'll be doing a drop and soap bubble test every couple joints as I do the work.

The biggest fly in this soup is getting the permit from the City of Tucson. They have you do it online and its not especially transparent.

Has anyone gotten permits through their city online system? I've created an account in their system and started the ball rolling but I'm going really slow.

It's Christmas eve so Merry Christmas everyone.

I'll just put it out there that I bet Zeke has done this but I haven't noticed him here in a while, but maybe I'm not paying attention.

[A930Rocket]

What type of foundation do you have that the gas line is in… slab, crawlspace, etc.

Have you thought about a flex type piping? You can do long runs with less fittings. We use it on every house.

[otto_kretschmer]

The house was built in the late 60s and the gas line is in the concrete so its not realistic to dig out the old line and replace the entire line. I'll rout the new line about 7 feet above the ground and into the house. There is no need to use any flexible lines except for the connections from the appliance to the isolation valve at the end of each leg. Steel pipe is easy to assemble and can take a beating. I don't have to worry about it getting punctured.

[cabmandone]

Most likely leaking because no one sleeved the line passing through the concrete. Without seeing the layout it's hard to offer advice. I do like the flex suggestion. Enter the home with a pipe nipple long enough to connect to the meter. Put a metal header designed for flexible lines on the end, or build a header using T's in the home. I like the manufactured headers since they eliminate potential leak sources. Pull the line to where it needs to go. The flex line is stainless steel with a PVC outer coating. It's easy to work with and if there's a leak, it's at the header or the point of use. For leak testing I went with piece below. I quit using black pipe years ago. I have all the tools to run black pipe but it's too much like work.

OH YEAH! No matter what you pass through, be it a concrete wall or wood, put a sleeve over the line. I typically use a plumbing tailpiece large enough to go over the line that enters the home.

Tools needed: Tubing cutter for flex line, two adjustable wrenches. Maybe a hammer if you have to install pipe hangers.

Leak test: https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/flexible-gas-pipe-fittings-accessories/pro-flex-trade-bell-test-gauge/pftg-b1230c/p-1699697311238222-c-9529.htm?exp=false

Gas Line: https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/flexible-gas-pipe-fittings-accessories/pro-flex-trade-csst-flexible-gas-tubing/pfct-3425/p-1444445271632-c-9529.htm?exp=false

Header: https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/flexible-gas-pipe-fittings-accessories/pro-flex-trade-4-port-cast-manifold/pfmn-bbb/p-1444445270978-c-9529.htm?exp=false

[billybek]

Not sure if your code would require a swing joint where the line is changing directions to enter the home.
Here due to freeze/thaw, it is code to allow some flexibility and movement.

[Alan A]

The guy that ran our line - propane tank to cooktop - used flex outside and black iron inside. Not sure if that was code or what, but it passed inspection and has worked just fine for the last 18 years.

[otto_kretschmer]

This morning I scheduled an inspection for tomorrow. I hooked up the furnace on the roof Monday and pressurized the system to 15 psi and its still at 15 psi today. Maybe Friday SW Gas will turn on my gas and I can get back to normal and not the ice box my house is now.

[masraum]

Glad you have probably got it worked out. WTF were they thinking doing the test this time of year, wankers!

Good luck with your test and getting turned back on.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by masraum

Glad you have probably got it worked out. WTF were they thinking doing the test this time of year, wankers!

Good luck with your test and getting turned back on.

I think they monitor the gas usage and noticed I was using more compared to last year.

[otto_kretschmer]

Passed inspection today. The inspector did it over the phone with Facetime. I just gave him a tour of my work starting from the meter. It was all over in 10 minutes. Now I'm waiting for SW Gas to get to me.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

The leak is in the foundation so I'm going to...

A bit late...but
Everything up to the meter is the responsibility and under color of authority of whom, exactly?
You or the utility company.

So they don't mind you installing in a little bypass run from the street pipe

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

The biggest fly in this soup is getting the permit from the City of Tucson. They have you do it online and its not especially transparent.

So they don't send out a physical worker to test for leaks after the fact?
"Looks good. Signed off."

Who assumes complete liability when the house explodes?

In the rental I have outlet NG/CO alarms. They did not trip. A local city inspector's machine found a micro leak. Fixed. For the first time I was glad to be under external oversight.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by john70t

A bit late...but
Everything up to the meter is the responsibility and under color of authority of whom, exactly?
You or the utility company.

downstream of the meter is my responsibility

So they don't mind you installing in a little bypass run from the street pipe


So they don't send out a physical worker to test for leaks after the fact?
"Looks good. Signed off."

Who assumes complete liability when the house explodes?

In the rental I have outlet NG/CO alarms. They did not trip. A local city inspector's machine found a micro leak. Fixed. For the first time I was glad to be under external oversight.

Upstream of the meter the pressure is 60-80 psi so tapping into that is a little more challenging than the 1/4 psi after the meter.

I showed the inspector with my phone the pressure gauge I had on the system and I pressurized it to 15 psi after I finished the last leg to the furnace Monday. It was still holding 15 psi yesterday.

I found the inspection to be a joke but I was happy to pass and get approval and one step closer to getting gas again. I have the utility scheduled to turn service on Monday morning.

[otto_kretschmer]

SW Gas came and turned on the gas. I was happy to do the dishes with hot water again. The oven was holding out for a couple hours but the valve must have got the message there is gas again and started opening when the knob is turned on.

[cabmandone]

Wow! What a saga that was! Glad you got it fixed.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

SW Gas came and turned on the gas. I was happy to do the dishes with hot water again. The oven was holding out for a couple hours but the valve must have got the message there is gas again and started opening when the knob is turned on.

Good to hear you you’ve got hot water again!

After an extended period of time or first time use, I will either loosen and bleed the gas line or repeatedly turn it to lite. I do this with Fireplaces and gas cooktop/ovens, etc.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Good to hear you you’ve got hot water again!

After an extended period of time or first time use, I will either loosen and bleed the gas line or repeatedly turn it to lite. I do this with Fireplaces and gas cooktop/ovens, etc.

I'm surprised the gas company didn't light the appliances. They do that around here if requested. I typically start with the appliance at the end of the run. Once that one is bled, the rest go pretty easy.

[Mike80911]

Lucky it was such an easy process. My 87-year-old neighbor called the gas company because he smelled gas in the house. They came out shut his gas and informed him that the pipes he had were 1/2" new code requires 3/4" So he had to hire a licensed plumber to replace every gas pipe in the house. Between pulling the permit and final inspection his gas was off for 8 months. How do you justify leaving an elderly couple without heat or hot water for 8 months? The actual job only took about a week the rest of the time was waiting for the city to issue the permit and inspect.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

Lucky it was such an easy process. My 87-year-old neighbor called the gas company because he smelled gas in the house. They came out shut his gas and informed him that the pipes he had were 1/2" new code requires 3/4" So he had to hire a licensed plumber to replace every gas pipe in the house. Between pulling the permit and final inspection his gas was off for 8 months. How do you justify leaving an elderly couple without heat or hot water for 8 months? The actual job only took about a week the rest of the time was waiting for the city to issue the permit and inspect.

That is a complete dik move on that gas guy. The old guy had a completly functioning system minus a possible gas leak that could have been something simple like a valve. His house may have been up to code with the 1/2" when it was built.

[Brian 162]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

I'm surprised the gas company didn't light the appliances. They do that around here if requested. I typically start with the appliance at the end of the run. Once that one is bled, the rest go pretty easy.

I used to work for the local gas utility. We always re-lit and checked that each appliance was working properly

[Baz]

I have natural gas just for my furnace - nothing else. So I get the gas turned off every Spring and then back on every Winter, so I don't get charged a monthly service fee. There's no charge to turn it off but of course there's one to turn it on because they insist on making sure the furnace comes on OK. Every single year - it takes a while because air gets into the line somehow. At some point I would like to add a bleeder so I can bleed it to save some time.

Most of the time the techs who come out are good guys. One year the guy couldn't get it to come on and declared a thermocouple to be bad, so he'd have to come back. 20 minutes after he left I had it going just fine.