Bernstein, The greatest 5 min. in music education

[Steve Carlton]

I thought this was an interesting presentation of music history. I don't know anything about music theory, but there's someone here educated in this stuff. Thoughts?

[flatbutt]

He throws so much theory in there that it would be difficult to explain it at all without a foundation in music theory.

His concluding remarks regarding chromaticism vs diatonicism don't go far enough in lay terms so I'll give it a go.

First, consider the notation scale. A note on every line and space. Starting with C and moving up the scale D,E,F,G,A,B,C.
Each of those notes has been assigned a "scale degree" and a name:
C is the 1st scale degree: the tonic
D is the 2nd degree: the supertonic
E is the 3rd degree: the mediant
F is the 4th degree: the subdominant
G is the 5th degree: the dominant
A is the 6th degree: the submediant
B is the 7th degree: the leading note (or leading tone)

After scale degree 7 we return to the Tonic only 1 octave higher.( It would be scale degree 8 but Bach didn't go there.) Note that these designations hold for any scale starting on any natural note.

Each of those notes can be raised (sharped #) or lowered (flatted b) which gives us the chromatic scale when the notes are played in order C C# D D# E F (this relationhip E F is special, more later if you wish) F# G G# A A# B C (BC is similar to EF).

The Diatonic scale is one in which the notes of the scales are defined by key signature. In the key of C major all the notes are natural, no sharp or flat. If a note is sharped or flatted while in the key of C major it is referred to as chromatic or accidental or non-diatonic.

The major scale names are C major, G, D, A, E, B, F#.
In the key of G major there is one sharp G A B C D E F#...G

Each key proceeding from there (which is a 5th above the previous key ie the dominant) adds an additional sharp which is an interval of 5 or a fifth above the previous sharped note.

So, from C major we went to G major C D E F G = up 5 C to G. From G we go to D
major with a C#.

The addition of the sharps is in the order F#,C#,G#D#.A#.E#.B#

Here is where it can get confusing. The scale degree of 7 is known as the leading tone in the major scale (the minor scale is a wee bit different) because it LEADS us back to the Tonic. The leading tone is a half step below the Tonic and so must usually be sharped to meet that rule.

Each note in a scale played according the key signature is referred to as a diatonic scale as opposed to a chromatic scale.

As far as claiming that the video is music history well that is obviously a bit of Lenny being Lenny.

Bach did indeed organize all of the previous mish mash of music writing into a coherent system known as Western Tonal Music. That is a long story for sure.
Hope that helps. Questions? Answers are free.

[Steve Carlton]

Let me grab a gin and tonic and get back to you...

[javadog]

I’m going to make a margarita and forget I watched that video.

I have concluded that music theory is too complex for my pickled brain.

I applaud those that can play any sort of guitar piano and understand all of that nonsense.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Let me grab a gin and tonic

Originally Posted by javadog

I’m going to make a margarita

So jealous.

[Bob Kontak]

I'm so bad

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

He throws so much theory in there that it would be difficult to explain it at all without a foundation in music theory.

His concluding remarks regarding chromaticism vs diatonicism don't go far enough in lay terms so I'll give it a go.

First, consider the notation scale. A note on every line and space. Starting with C and moving up the scale D,E,F,G,A,B,C.
Each of those notes has been assigned a "scale degree" and a name:
C is the 1st scale degree: the tonic
D is the 2nd degree: the supertonic
E is the 3rd degree: the mediant
F is the 4th degree: the subdominant
G is the 5th degree: the dominant
A is the 6th degree: the submediant
B is the 7th degree: the leading note (or leading tone)

After scale degree 7 we return to the Tonic only 1 octave higher.( It would be scale degree 8 but Bach didn't go there.) Note that these designations hold for any scale starting on any natural note.

Each of those notes can be raised (sharped #) or lowered (flatted b) which gives us the chromatic scale when the notes are played in order C C# D D# E F (this relationhip E F is special, more later if you wish) F# G G# A A# B C (BC is similar to EF).

The Diatonic scale is one in which the notes of the scales are defined by key signature. In the key of C major all the notes are natural, no sharp or flat. If a note is sharped or flatted while in the key of C major it is referred to as chromatic or accidental or non-diatonic.

The major scale names are C major, G, D, A, E, B, F#.
In the key of G major there is one sharp G A B C D E F#...G

Each key proceeding from there (which is a 5th above the previous key ie the dominant) adds an additional sharp which is an interval of 5 or a fifth above the previous sharped note.

So, from C major we went to G major C D E F G = up 5 C to G. From G we go to D
major with a C#.

The addition of the sharps is in the order F#,C#,G#D#.A#.E#.B#

Here is where it can get confusing. The scale degree of 7 is known as the leading tone in the major scale (the minor scale is a wee bit different) because it LEADS us back to the Tonic. The leading tone is a half step below the Tonic and so must usually be sharped to meet that rule.

Each note in a scale played according the key signature is referred to as a diatonic scale as opposed to a chromatic scale.

As far as claiming that the video is music history well that is obviously a bit of Lenny being Lenny.

Bach did indeed organize all of the previous mish mash of music writing into a coherent system known as Western Tonal Music. That is a long story for sure.
Hope that helps. Questions? Answers are free.

OK, I'm going to read this post about a dozen more times. I think I've got the vaguest of notions. Unfortunately, my knowledge of music is pretty much non-existant. I think at at the point where it's like trying to understand a mural on the side of a building while looking through a pinhole.

[Steve Carlton]

[A930Rocket]

You lost me at …”I’ll give it a go”. 😂

[Superman]

Honestly? Music makes subatomic physics look pedestrian. It's like dealing with four layers of five-dimension geometry superimposed. And those are just the rules. Which are made to be broken.

[flatbutt]

I've always been better at being a student rather than a teacher. I found theory fascinating. So much so that I studied it for 5 semesters.

There's much more of a foundation needed than what I tried to capture in my post.

Consider this chart.

[javadog]

Looks like a dartboard.

[flatbutt]

:d

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I've always been better at being a student rather than a teacher. I found theory fascinating. So much so that I studied it for 5 semesters.

There's much more of a foundation needed than what I tried to capture in my post.

Consider this chart.

Originally Posted by javadog

Looks like a dartboard.

Before I scrolled down to your post, I was thinking "Darts!"

I'm still chewing on all of this. I suspect I'm not going to get very far in my understanding of it, but learning anything new, even something tiny, is a good thing.

This thread lead me to



and



Good stuff!

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

He throws so much theory in there that it would be difficult to explain it at all without a foundation in music theory.

His concluding remarks regarding chromaticism vs diatonicism don't go far enough in lay terms so I'll give it a go.

At 65, I started learning to play the guitar one week ago, on March 1st.

I thought it might be fun, but your post has me questioning that sentiment.

Okay, back to practicing the two-chord iteration of Horse With no Name ...

_

[flatbutt]

When I started my studies I was stunned at the complexity and organization of the theory until I made a study of the piano keyboard. Everything in terms of scale and chord structure is right there in front of us. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier is red meat for nerds but damn he was a genius.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I made a study of the piano keyboard. Everything in terms of scale and chord structure is right there in front of us. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier is red meat for nerds but damn he was a genius.

Is there a web page or photo with labels that spell that out, or can you give me a few search terms to use to try to find the info and I'll look myself.

[Zeke]

Hard to understand if you're not musically inclined (I'm not). However, this snippet from a quick Google says:
The connection between music and mathematics has fascinated scholars for centuries. More than 2000 years ago Pythagoras reportedly discovered that pleasing musical intervals could be described using simple ratios.

More simply put, the western scale of octaves are doubles of each. I'm guessing here because that's that amount of time I'm going to spend on this, but I assume this is done using the numerical Hz. However, I see the possibility that (our) time has nothing to do with it.

[Steve Carlton]

I want to read up on music theory, as it can only help with playing guitar, for example. Does it boil down to harmonics created when the waves line up? I think of the example of nodal lines, when I took a physics class in high school. An illustration is when you drive by crops, where plants are placed at specific intervals and you see lines appear at certain angles as you drive by- some strong and some weaker. Is it the same thing with harmonics?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I want to read up on music theory, as it can only help with playing guitar, for example. Does it boil down to harmonics created when the waves line up? I think of the example of nodal lines, when I took a physics class in high school. An illustration is when you drive by crops, where plants are placed at specific intervals and you see lines appear at certain angles as you drive by- some strong and some weaker. Is it the same thing with harmonics?

What you posted looks like the result of constructive and destructive interference of 2 sets of waves.

Not to derail, but...