LaGuardia Airport Regional Jet Tarmac Collision

[unclebilly]

I’m surprised there is no thread on this yet.

https://apnews.com/article/delta-planes-collision-new-york-laguardia-6ccff3aabeca787c31f1f6746ad771fd

No word if Boeing, Slang Lingo from air traffic controllers, or human error is to blame.

I mention slang lingo after spending time these past few days with a commercial pilot that told me that La Guardia ATC doesn’t use standard lingo or instructions and is nerve wracking to land at. I asked him what airport is the worst to land at…

[jyl]

Blancolirio has the ATC audio. One of the planes was given directions that, in Juan B’s opinion, was not as clearly phrased as it could have been.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

La Guardia ATC doesn’t use standard lingo or instructions

Listen to https://www.liveatc.net/ for a while:

-Major communications are required....while at the same time major controls and instruments interaction under weather conditions(it has to be precise), while at the same time cockpit officer interaction with checklists and duties and double-checking.
-That all falls into the shoulders of the pilot, at once, after a long flight.
-Always Always the possibility to adjust the entire flight at the last minute.Or second.

-Try flying a heavy into a busy airport with a flight sim after hours sitting in a chair.

-The virtual flight world around a pilot has to be visualized using language.
-A third of the time that is a visually dark world full of possible danger.

-Radio static. 80-90% radio static gibberish and words cut off is all I heard.
-Heavy accents sometimes.
-Rapid fire coms. Bambambam. Was it said right? Yeah might be important. Very important.
-Everyone is a professional and is supposed to know the routine.
-But is that the 2nd week or 2nd decade pilot experience with that particular airport? ATC doesn't know.
-"Of course they understand my local slang".....

-Cutbacks. Budget diversions. etc. I'm stopping there.
-Antiquated systems.
-Tired overworked staff.
-One ATC I listened to had a complete tiffy meltdown and b****ed for about half a minute over Coms at a pilot who did nothing wrong in my opinion or knowledge. He/she found one person and wanted to make a point which made a difference. Recovered composure and all pilots changed their frequency levels but..That is not a time for egos or whatever was stuck in the craw. GD face-to-face that ATC personnel would be slapped on the street.

-Group psychology. One buffalo panics and the herd panics.
-That doesn't happen thankfully.
-There are some very respectable flight equipment operators out there in charge of hundreds of souls.
-Never acknowledged but should be as the standard.
-Listen to ATC for a while at different locations. You will understand the difference between a controlled calm environment that heals itself vs. an environment verging on chaos at any second.
-And flying in traffic is still safer than driving.

Pilots are breed apart.

[A930Rocket]

I read the wing tip hit the captains Window on the other plane. I’m sure it will come out later, but which plane was in the wrong place?

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by jyl

Blancolirio has the ATC audio. One of the planes was given directions that, in Juan B’s opinion, was not as clearly phrased as it could have been.

Yeah, this.

The plane that lost the wing had been told to hold for the other, but while the instruction was accurate there were confusing aspects to it.

Second Roanoke bound RJ in a week to have an incident. Last week a RJ from another airline was landing at Roanoke in "extreme" precip (atc's words) and overran, ending up in the EMAS , which did its job and prevented major damage/injury.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I read the wing tip hit the captains Window on the other plane. I’m sure it will come out later, but which plane was in the wrong place?

The one landing was given instructions to taxi via Bravo/Mike. The one taxiing out was given instructions to hold short of Mike while a "company" plane had the right of way and then proceed. They apparently momentarily thought taxi way Mike was further down taxi way Bravo, so they moved into the path of the arriving plane that had just made a turn on Mike. The arriving plane's wing smacked the plane that was supposed to be holding short on the nose at the windshield level.

If all that sounded complicated and confusing, it was.

But it should not be. The plane taxiing out for take off was given a set of taxi instructions that included the entire sequence of 3 taxi ways and 2 hold shorts in, according to Juan Brown at "blancolerio YT," in "rapid fire speech like an auctioneer." They repeated it back and then did not follow the procedure. They are the pilots that will be held accountable.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by Zeke

They are the pilots that will be held accountable.

I imagine the RJ pilots won’t be moving up to the big jets and will be lucky to have a job after this.