I'm pro-LEO most of the time, but this is different
 

Some guy was flashing his high beams to warn other drivers about a speed trap. A cop saw it and decided to pull the guy over. He then tried to arrest the guy, but it seems he may have been told "don't do that" by someone and he let the guy go. The tickets were thrown out on appeal, and now the guy is suing for civil rights violations. The cops asked for immunity, and the federal court said "nope". This seems to be a case where body cam is pretty damning for the cops.

<iframe width="960" height="568" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/isYZoFrIeo0" title="Arrested For Laughing | Lawsuit UPDATE | Officer Gets Qualified Immunity?" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good! Nothing wrong with letting people know they need to slow down. If cops wanted people to slow down, they'd park a cruiser with the lights on and be standing out there with an orange vest on, holding a "SLOW" sign. They don't want you slow down. They want your money, they then want you to take the traffic school for the same cost as the ticket, in exchange for no points and then to do it all over again.

I had something similar happen to me with a cop that had another vehicle pulled over. It was on the x-way and the officer was standing on the shoulder talking to the driver.
Traffic was heavy and I was not given a spot to merge into the left lane, so I pulled as far to the left as I could, giving the cop at least 6 feet of room.

About a mile down the road, I see the cop's lights on and closing in on me. I pulled off onto the shoulder and the cop almost ran to my window and started screaming at me for not giving him enough room. He was red with anger. I tried to explain why I couldn't get over more and he just kept yelling. Finally he said.."Do you own this car? I answered "yes" and he said "get the hell out of here"
I waited for him to leave and then drove the rest of the way home.

He obviously had been thru a bad day.

I was thinking about flashing the lights to warn oncoming traffic about cops today, as I passed a state trooper, in the median.

I’m not sure people know what it means anymore.

Do you guys still do it?

When I used to race around up on Hwy 9, Skyline (Hwy84), and other twisties in the Santa Cruz Mountains the go to fuzz ahead signal up there was you tap on the top of your helmet or the roof top of your car. Not as obvious as the flashing lights, but the CHP that frequented up there knew and would get ya for that if they saw ya doing it.

I remember it being a thing through the 80s and 90s at least. I rarely see it any more.
I've never seen it it a car, but the helmet tap still means the same, I see it in YT videos all of the time.

Per AI:

Interesting, as I grew up thinking it was illegal (but we did it)

I don't see a purpose now, the map programs identify police.

So, is it against the law to flash your lights, warning of police ahead? Or tapping your helmet?

Per the video, since there was NO LAW AGAINST IT IN THE STATE, it's protected free speech if it ends up in a federal court.

I guess that means to know for sure, you need to know if your state has a specific law about warning folks.

Sad. Just another azzhold cop. That's why they are hated so much by some. I always support my local police. I got a ticket by a motorcycle cop few months ago for failure to stop for making a right turn on red. I stopped completely because I saw him sitting there but my bumper did go over the limit line on the red light. He wrote me for that and said he could have written me for fail to stop at light on right turn because once I passed the limit line, its considered a right turn (I learn something new daily). What an ass. I just paid it today and be down with it. All a money generating machine. He was there right near the jammed street in front of the school where parents making illegal u turns across the 6 lanes after kids are dropped off or double parking holding traffic. Way it goes, and I wish him a slow painful death on that hospital bed. I do.

Old school, pre headlights that flash, you hold two fingers, like a peace sign, to indicate radar ahead

I do

The bike guys, or me on a bike were not tapping lids to mini-vans or Prius... Game recognized game so in my 911 I gave and received taps..

I thought supreme court ruled light flash warning is protected free speech.

I used to be a regular head light flash warner but now I just click "police" on Waze.

I just did a search for Georgia , it is not illegal to flash headlights to warn of police radar . No law on the books . It is illegal to not dim your headlights to oncoming traffic .

On the MC I tap my helmet.

It seems as if this officer became emotionally attached to his interaction with the driver and took the "offense" personal. The officer should engage in a discussion with the driver along with a Department supervisor to ensure he understands what his duties are. This is called "conflict resolution" and is a very good tool to use so both parties understand and are heard by the other.

https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2022/08/14/is-there-a-right-to-flash-lights-to-warn-motorists-of-a-speed-trap-can-they-stop-you/

There are no Supreme Court cases on this. There are no federal appellate cases, to my knowledge. There are only a couple of U.S. District Court opinions, and a couple of state circuit court opinions. There was a 2019 memorandum opinion from the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin holding that a policy and practice of stopping, detaining, and citing drivers who flash their headlights to warn oncoming drivers of a speed trap violates his right to free speech under the First Amendment. This was Obriecht v. Splinter.

The First Amendment provides that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech.” It protects conduct, symbols, and non-verbal communication that express or convey a particularized message reasonably understood by viewers. Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 404-06 (1989). Flashing headlights could easily be placed into the category of expressive conduct. In the Obriecht v. Splinter case, this point was conceded by the state. However, even expressive conduct may be regulate by the government. For example, speech that incites or produces “imminent lawless action,” Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969), or is integral to criminal conduct, such as fighting words, threats, and solicitations, United States v. White, 610 F.3d 956, 960 (7th Cir. 2010), is not protected by the First Amendment.

Another similar case from the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri held in 2014 that this conduct was entitled to protection under the First Amendment. (Elli v. City of Ellisville, Mo). At least two state circuit courts have found that drivers have a constitutional right to flash their headlights. (State of Oregon v. Hill (2014); State v. Walker (Tenn. 2003)).

The problem with the lack of precedent on this issue leads to a big problem for potential plaintiffs: qualified immunity. The standard for qualified immunity requires establishing that the police officer violated clearly established law. Where there is almost no established case law, that’s going to be a tough task.

However, as we saw from Jeff’s video, if police are going to pull people over for flashing their lights at other motorists, they need to be honest about what they’re doing, and identify a state or local statute they allege is violated by the relevant conduct. Then, the victim of that stop can mount a First Amendment challenge. This is how the law will become clearly established. At the same time, if they’re not being honest, only video footage is going to protect the motorist from pre-textual lies, which if documented, will establish liability for a Fourth Amendment violation, with no good argument for qualified immunity.

I live in an area with a lot of tree-lined two lanes roads.

Every one flicks the lights warning for tractors on the, stopped/unloading school buses, construction, etc.

It really helps.

If your nav app doesn't have a police warning, not my problem:cool:

There are signs for traffic cams and radar detectors and some map apps let you know they are coming up, so flashing lights seems to be the same...

1-2 mins that address that exactly.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7l_0ZcSuRwg?si=DtV4RM1rIABusVai&amp;start=8763" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's pretty much my take on it. If a cop's goal is to get people to slow down, they should welcome the help. The behavior in this case makes it clear the goal is to write tickets - or relieve the boredom.

"They want your money, they then want you to take the traffic school for the same cost as the ticket, in exchange for no points and then to do it all over again."

Hmm, sounds like you've had some experience!! :cool:

Didn't see it mentioned.........looks like someone "alerted" the cop to what was going on. Otherwise he didn't even know about it.

So the guy was ratted out.

By whom, though?

And shouldn't that actually be the point of the entire story?

How being a dirty stinking lousy rat really throws a wrench into things that otherwise wouldn't be a big deal at all?

Exactly! It would be damn hard to be human and not occasionally let your emotions get the better of you. There are folks that are wired that way, that can do that. I would say that those folks are the minority. And the longer that you do the job, the harder that I think it would get.

All you've got to do is watch a dozen body cam videos to get to the point where you think "taze 'em all and let the courts sort them out." I've seen so many videos where a cop rolls up and is very professional, not inflammatory or antagonizing, and then the folks that they are talking to create a situation where there previously wasn't one. It's truly mind boggling at the stupidity of some folks.

Yes, I have. In AZ, unless it's egregious speeding, you can take the online traffic school and the fine and points are waived. You can do this every 18 mos. Of course, the online traffic school costs the same as the fine. So they're blackmailing you, when, if you really were a danger to the public, then you should get the points and fine. As long as the state gets paid, that's all they care about. You should see how the DUIs work now that Uber and Lyft have taken too many drunks off the road and thus too much fine revenue out of the city and state coffers. No more plea deals for anyone.

I don't know about AZ, but in Houston/Texas, if you take the traffic school option and then check your driving record, it'll say "moving violation - speeding - 0 points".

If instead of traffic school, you take the deferred disposition/adjudication option, when you check your driving record, the infraction isn't there. It's like it never happened. I have done both. I think the deferred option has got to be better than the other.

Or, now that not driving has gotten so much cheaper and easier, there's less excuse? And folks that are still DUI shouldn't be getting a lot of leniency anyway?

Fewer's wrist slaps for DUI seems like a good thing.

I'm not defending drunk drivers. But when I was driving for Uber and Lyft, I drove for a lot of folks who were suspended and I heard some crazy stories. One guy, who really was a habitual offender, was asleep in the passenger seat while car was running (to have A/C in the 120 deg heat), while his buddy was inside the gas station. Cop knocked on the window to check on him and that landed him another DUI - adult in control of a vehicle. I even have a customer who blew a 0.0, but pleaded guilty to DUI to get a more serious charge dropped. So I'm not going to assume every DUI guilty verdict or plea I read about has anything to do with taking a drunk off the road.

Wow. I have heard of folks passing out in a car and getting DUI because they were in the car, plastered, and could have driven. I've heard folks say before "throw your keys under the car" because if you're in the car, but don't have the keys, you couldn't possibly drive the car. I don't know if that's legit or not.

"plead guilty to get another more serious charge dropped" well, that's another matter entirely.

One of my son’s is a Nashville policeman. They are lucky to have one of the finest human beings I know. Given how short-staffed they are, traffic enforcement is almost unheard of, and they spend their time on some pretty sobering stuff, day in day out.

What if you get a ticket out of state? Ms Rocket got one a of couple years ago somewhere and I’m wondering if an online course would help mitigate it. Our insurance went up because of it.

Depends on the state. There's an interstate compact that handles this stuff, but not all states are part of it and not all those that are handle things the same way. I sure have lucked out with a major charge in one member state while a resident of another member state. My home state and thus insurance company never heard about it.

Like I said, I'm pro LEO.

When I was born and for a few years my dad was a cop and then he went back into the military to protect his family.

Service, whether in the military or as a LEO or firefighter..., are noble callings. I assume anyone and everyone that does those jobs is a good person doing a very, very difficult job.

I'm sure that there are bad folks in those positions. I believe they are the minority.

On a tail of the dragon rally a few years ago I got a speeding ticket in Mississippi and North Carolina. Mississippi wouldn't do deferred adjudication but would allow defensive driving so I did that. For North Carolina I hired local lawyer to get it converted to non-moving violation like a broken tail light. I haven't checked my record to see how or if they show up.

My last ticket was on my bike on I-10 in Benson, AZ. I had my cruise control set on 104 for days and my radar detector had been fried in a rainstorm in Nashville. State trooper locked on at 95 mph and gave me a ticket for "waste of a finite resource" - non-moving violation with no points. Thank you!

While I understand that you view it as them doing you a favor (non-moving violation), that ticket actually REALLY peeves me. It's a finite resource THAT I BOUGHT and should therefore be able to waste however I want to. I think that is one of the biggest overreaches there is.

What's the resource that you were wasting? Gas? If so, WTF? That's bizarre!

I totally agree. And I wasn't wasting anything. I wanted to get home faster.

It's basically a charge they can hit you with when they want to cut you a break, but could really tow your vehicle and haul you to jail. Cop and I talked about our guns a bit too. He was cool. It's no worse than getting popped for 95 and written for 85 (10 over). Is that perjury or officer discretion?

R. Lothbrok

<iframe width="318" height="565" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CZyNk0j49t0" title="THE POWER IS ALWAYS DANGEROUS | RAGNAR | VIKINGS #motivation #becomesigma #inspirationalspeech" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I got that ticket for going 5 over on the Rim.

DPS has pull over quotas. So just take it or don’t drive.