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-   -   Economics chat? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1181531-economics-chat.html)

gregpark 08-13-2025 05:17 PM

If you wait about 6 months to buy a big ticket item it might be worth your while

Shaun @ Tru6 08-14-2025 11:40 AM

Fast food sales are down, apparently McDonald's sales declined significantly last quarter and I'm getting more and more Shake Shack special deal emails to come in. This one below is telling. A local chain (97 locations) that I think is a successful family pub style restaurant (burgers, steaks, fish, lobster rolls, salads of every kind...) is advertising heavily on the radio to come in Monday through Wednesday for special deals for $14.99 dinners. Those are new.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1755200002.jpg

Tobra 08-14-2025 11:56 AM

If I am going for burgers it is at Cookies, The Squeeze Inn Or Hagen's Freeze. Sweet potato fries at Hagen's are pretty great.

Had McDonalds on a road trip a year ago, but do not dig chain fast food much. In 'n' Out is not bad, been a long time since I went to Shake Shack

aschen 08-14-2025 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 12515913)
Fast food sales are down, apparently McDonald's sales declined significantly last quarter

Me and family have cut down substantially on casual dining. Its gotten too expensive over the last few years to justify. We didnt eat a lot of super gross fast food. Things like Jimmy johns, chipoltle, and casual ethnic food places.

Used to be 7-12$ to eat at places like this now its 12-20. Just not worth it to spend $100 for the 5 of us to eat mediocre sandwiches.


Totally fine with it, and don't mind spending much more for the occasional good meal out. Recent inflation suck, but Im not sure 2 cheeseburgers (special at wendys) for 5$ in 2020 was reasonable or sustainable either

cabmandone 08-14-2025 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 12515913)

Crowbob is gonna be rollin your way for a free sammy!

David 08-14-2025 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 12514897)
Net net is Wall Street is taking advantage of and/or crushing Main Street, consumers paying the price for unbridled greed.

This sure seems like what’s going on. The rich get richer until everything collapses.

Shaun @ Tru6 08-14-2025 04:20 PM

^^^ when you throw crypto into the equation, widespread international corruption guarantees that outcome. It’s only a matter of time.

Ethics and morality are anathema to instantaneous electronic wealth.

LWJ 08-14-2025 05:48 PM

^^^Tell me more? I don't understand your conclusion.

Baz 08-14-2025 06:20 PM

Stopped by my mechanic's today to talk about some upcoming work on my Silverado.

Told him about some motorcycle keys I had made that were done for free. Told him I'm not buying any more motorcycles anytime soon - have to tighten the belt! He was laughing....said have you seen what a T-bone steak costs now? I said "That's why I'm eating chicken!" He added "And turkey!"

He's a good guy and great mechanic......

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1755224349.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1755224349.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1755224349.JPG

Shaun @ Tru6 08-15-2025 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LWJ (Post 12516168)
^^^Tell me more? I don't understand your conclusion.

While crypto isn't 100% anonymous due to the blockchain, it's very close given all the ways to buy it. If you own your own crypto, I think it's fair to say it can be 100%. Any time large amounts money can be moved around anonymously, or really just close to, corruption is the natural result. This is especially true when you have to prove quid pro quo causation, not just correlation.

Paul T 08-15-2025 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 12516068)
This sure seems like what’s going on. The rich get richer until everything collapses.

Yes, income inequality has been getting worse and worse for decades and there does not seem to be any appetite to take any real action to try and correct it. Any more comments from me would derail this to PARF….but I don’t see it getting better anytime soon, or ever.

cabmandone 08-15-2025 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul T (Post 12516327)
Yes, income inequality has been getting worse and worse for decades and there does not seem to be any appetite to take any real action to try and correct it. Any more comments from me would derail this to PARF….but I don’t see it getting better anytime soon, or ever.

Actually, the income gap improved and the poverty rate reached its lowest percentage recently and then the pandemic hit.

It only stands to reason that the wealthy will more easily and rapidly improve their position. They have more disposable income. I lamented not having 200K to drop on stocks back in April. Had I, I would have increased my positions in some of my best performing stocks and literally would have doubled my 200K in four months. People that have money, find it easier to obtain more money. This isn't rocket science.

We fix the financial illiteracy problem in this country and most of the problem will solve itself. I was fortunate to be raised by two parents who understood finances. First thing my mom told me when I got a credit card was, only put on that what you can afford to pay in full when the bill comes due. I was fortunate to have worked for a person who instilled in me that the way to increase wealth is to earn interest rather than paying it. And lastly I had family who taught me the difference between wants and needs. Three very basic things that help create wealth. But three things most people can't seem to grasp.

LWJ 08-15-2025 05:22 AM

^^^I agree RE: income inequity. What is funny? I have been a low earner for a large part of my career. Years back, I was F'n OVERJOYED to get a raise that pushed my income over $40K. Why? Because that was the line into MIDDLE class. Through, frugality, investment, and strategic career moves, I am now on the other side of income inequity. But that doesn't mean I don't see it. My HS friends came over last week for a wake for a buddy who passed. It was eye opening. One friend didn't own a car and had neglected dental work. He attended one of the US Military Academies. Another person there was closer to billionaire.

cabmandone 08-15-2025 05:44 AM

I don't deny that income inequality exists. But I think much of our problem stems from financial illiteracy and the lack of understanding the difference between wants and needs. When I was in H.S. the extent of household finance lessons was basically learning how to balance a checkbook. I don't know what is taught now, but from my three kids all having gone through k-12, I can say it's not much more than when I graduated. We're failing our children.

Paul T 08-15-2025 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabmandone (Post 12516344)
Actually, the income gap improved and the poverty rate reached its lowest percentage recently and then the pandemic hit.

It only stands to reason that the wealthy will more easily and rapidly improve their position. They have more disposable income. I lamented not having 200K to drop on stocks back in April. Had I, I would have increased my positions in some of my best performing stocks and literally would have doubled my 200K in four months. People that have money, find it easier to obtain more money. This isn't rocket science.

We fix the financial illiteracy problem in this country and most of the problem will solve itself. I was fortunate to be raised by two parents who understood finances. First thing my mom told me when I got a credit card was, only put on that what you can afford to pay in full when the bill comes due. I was fortunate to have worked for a person who instilled in me that the way to increase wealth is to earn interest rather than paying it. And lastly I had family who taught me the difference between wants and needs. Three very basic things that help create wealth. But three things most people can't seem to grasp.

Sure, there have been incremental improvement here and there depending on which YoY period you look at, but for the past 50 years there has been a sharp trajectory in one direction only. The top 1% keeps getting a larger share of the pie, and of course, mathematically that just makes sense, but I don't ultimately think it's good for society. I don't know what the answers are either, though I'd probably start with estate taxes. I'm not a believer in transferring massive wealth to the next generation. If you start with nothing and become a billionaire, that's awesome, but if you are born a billionaire, not so awesome, IMO - and historically those that inherit don't do jack ****.

As for financial literacy, you are 100% correct, we are so lacking in financial education in this country, it's embarrassing. That would indeed go a long way to helping.

David 08-15-2025 07:00 AM

I'm not against the rich getting richer per se, but when the rich are eating up everything such as small business (and now medium and large businesses) and affordable housing just because they can, there begins to be nothing left for anyone else. And then there's no competition to keep prices in check. When you travel to other countries you realize how un-affordable the US has become. Labor costs and fuel costs haven't gone up that much so what has? Corporate profit!

David Inc. 08-15-2025 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul T (Post 12516393)
Sure, there have been incremental improvement here and there depending on which YoY period you look at, but for the past 50 years there has been a sharp trajectory in one direction only. The top 1% keeps getting a larger share of the pie, and of course, mathematically that just makes sense, but I don't ultimately think it's good for society. I don't know what the answers are either, though I'd probably start with estate taxes. I'm not a believer in transferring massive wealth to the next generation. If you start with nothing and become a billionaire, that's awesome, but if you are born a billionaire, not so awesome, IMO - and historically those that inherit don't do jack ****.

As for financial literacy, you are 100% correct, we are so lacking in financial education in this country, it's embarrassing. That would indeed go a long way to helping.

Extremely dry but also extremely well documented, if you haven't read it you might enjoy it.

https://www.amazon.com/Capital-Twenty-Century-Thomas-Piketty/dp/067443000X

It's less inherited wealth and more just the nature of capital accumulating and growing faster than wages, taking up a larger portion of the available wealth.

After long periods of accumulation there are collapses from wars, revolutions, or, as Piketty suggests, a global wealth tax to provide the relief valve to prevent the former options. The gloomy conclusion is, of course, that a global wealth tax is a pipe dream.

Deschodt 08-15-2025 07:29 AM

Keeping this on a purely personal level.. I'm looking at my salary and even though it grew, indexed for inflation it's essentially way too similar to what I made in the 2000s, despite a few promotions...
At the same time since 2019 everything I do or like has gone up 50% on average... Old cars ? check, new cars? check, travel? check.. Going out to eat? ouch... My only true hobby (old P-cars) is gone, I'm priced out.
I'm doing OK, no mortgage even, so if *I* feel the pinch and a distinct loss of purchasing power, I cannot imagine how people who just "get by" paycheck to paycheck are feeling...
Similarly my kid just got in pre-med and wants to do medical school - good for him but I cannot help thinking "will AI take his job before he's even done in 8-10 years?" - is that debt worth it ? I'm sorta encouraging my younger one to go towards plumbing/HVAC/electrical instead, something non AI but getting **** from my wife about not pushing him towards a college degree... Lots of uncertainty out there, lots of higher prices, and less jobs for new grads (I hear that a LOT from all my friends with grad kids), plus AI galore threatening to change or kill a lot of jobs... uncertain times...

Paul T 08-15-2025 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deschodt (Post 12516418)
Keeping this on a purely personal level.. I'm looking at my salary and even though it grew, indexed for inflation it's essentially way too similar to what I made in the 2000s, despite a few promotions...
At the same time since 2019 everything I do or like has gone up 50% on average... Old cars ? check, new cars? check, travel? check.. Going out to eat? ouch... My only true hobby (old P-cars) is gone, I'm priced out.
I'm doing OK, no mortgage even, so if *I* feel the pinch and a distinct loss of purchasing power, I cannot imagine how people who just "get by" paycheck to paycheck are feeling...
Similarly my kid just got in pre-med and wants to do medical school - good for him but I cannot help thinking "will AI take his job before he's even done in 8-10 years?" - is that debt worth it ? I'm sorta encouraging my younger one to go towards plumbing/HVAC/electrical instead, something non AI but getting **** from my wife about not pushing him towards a college degree... Lots of uncertainty out there, lots of higher prices, and less jobs for new grads (I hear that a LOT from all my friends with grad kids), plus AI galore threatening to change or kill a lot of jobs... uncertain times...

I think your experiences mirror what a lot of folks are feeling…real wages just have not kept up with the cost of housing/groceries/cars, you name it. Especially housing in many areas. Personally, I think encouraging new grads to go into the trades is a good thing, they will always be in demand and cannot be replaced by automation. I went the college route and ended up in finance, but I spent my childhood and teenage years working HVAC in the summers and it was a great experience. My family was in the business so I was cleaning boilers and threading pipe at a young age. Experiences I wouldn’t give up for anything, and the bonus is as an adult, I know how to fix things, something lacking in many youth today. It is indeed uncertain times, I can’t imagine what things will look like 30-40 yrs from now.

Arizona_928 08-15-2025 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deschodt (Post 12516418)
Keeping this on a purely personal level.. I'm looking at my salary and even though it grew, indexed for inflation it's essentially way too similar to what I made in the 2000s, despite a few promotions...
At the same time since 2019 everything I do or like has gone up 50% on average... Old cars ? check, new cars? check, travel? check.. Going out to eat? ouch... My only true hobby (old P-cars) is gone, I'm priced out.
I'm doing OK, no mortgage even, so if *I* feel the pinch and a distinct loss of purchasing power, I cannot imagine how people who just "get by" paycheck to paycheck are feeling...
Similarly my kid just got in pre-med and wants to do medical school - good for him but I cannot help thinking "will AI take his job before he's even done in 8-10 years?" - is that debt worth it ? I'm sorta encouraging my younger one to go towards plumbing/HVAC/electrical instead, something non AI but getting **** from my wife about not pushing him towards a college degree... Lots of uncertainty out there, lots of higher prices, and less jobs for new grads (I hear that a LOT from all my friends with grad kids), plus AI galore threatening to change or kill a lot of jobs... uncertain times...


College degrees are no longer what they used to be. With a PhD in chemie, i would have to sell out my morality to work at a university for a 50-70k position. I can bring in the same $$ working in a factory position with no formal education…. Since healthcare is the only real industry left in the United States, that would be my recommendation if someone is hell bent on college. Any sort of healthcare technician positions are starting in the mid $30’s/hr locally… That said, i feel that females have the upper hand in employment at this current time. At my gs position, a lot of the younger girls were able to get 7-12 ladders and up and out to DC or Europe if they relationshipped with the right chief or were overtly flirtatious. This pissed off the female chiefs that had to work the hard way to climb the ladder.


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