Porsche is facing troubling times ahead, schadenfreude anyone ?

[Deschodt]

Porsche is facing headwinds these days, gone are the splendid profits per car... these days, China is not doing so well, the EV models are not selling either, and they're rushing to reverse engineer some hybrids into the Macan and 718s... They pulled out of WEC, too expensive (stayed in IMSA 'cause it's cheaper). They have a couple lawsuits ongoing as well, one on chargers they throttled down instead of replacing them... I feel bad about my uncharitable thoughts as a long time fan of the brand, but I find it hard not to think "serves you right"... In my book they were the brand for the rest of us, the sports car enthusiasts that would buy them used and grow to appreciate their engineering, and one day buy them new... But lately they definitely tried very hard to go upmarket and likely left a lot of us behind, and yeah, can't say I feel too sorry for their troubles..

They've been hiking prices on their new cars since Covid, sometimes many times per year - significantly. A relatively pedestrian Boxster S is 90K+ now at a dealer. No 911s under 110K... That also had a big impact on the used market and depreciation kinda ceased to be thing.. Somehow they enrolled me in some customer opinon panel and all the Qs I get from Porsche are stuff that makes me shake my head, related to AI, gadgets in the car, influencer stuff - nothing about "hey let's build a car that doesn't bore score a cylinder or puke an IMS" ... I think they have lost their way of late - which was making great sports cars that a hard working enthusiast could afford. The dealerships started to follow the Ferrari model - "if you want a nice rarer car, you need to buy several cars you do not really want"... Not doing that was what made them a good brand, I thought. If you can afford a 918 OK, I get it, but for a base GT3/GT4 also? You want a manual? go pound sand - we only order PDK...
Anyway maybe it's just me being a bit sore my dreams of GT3s (used) went bye bye, but I see more influencer posts from them than I hear of engineering solutions to make great cars these days.. Maybe these headwinds will help long term...

[Deschodt]

..and that was meant for OT, dang it...

[pavegeno]

Agreed

[Mark Salvetti]

Lots of headwinds, especially for the German carmakers. I bet Audi is regretting their F1 investment now. Been wondering if they are really going to follow through, and for how long.

Mark

[plexiform]

I share the OP's sentiment: I've had 5 different 911s in my life and always assumed I would eventually pick up a new modern GT3 one day, but I think that ship has sailed. Even a used one would have been great but current prices are laughable. It really does feel like Porsche has forgotten about their biggest fans.

[dannichols1474]

Originally Posted by plexiform

I share the OP's sentiment: I've had 5 different 911s in my life and always assumed I would eventually pick up a new modern GT3 one day, but I think that ship has sailed. Even a used one would have been great but current prices are laughable. It really does feel like Porsche has forgotten about their biggest fans.

Agree, I'll continue to work on, drive and enjoy the classic 911 experience with my 75.

[Hi_Fi_Guy]

I could write a book about my feelings on this subject but I’ll say the saddest part is Porsche is no longer an aspirational brand. The 30-something’s in my office who are car enthusiasts and all making solid upper middle class salaries now see a Porsche 911 as completely out of reach. These are people who are passionate about performance cars which BMW and Mercedes-Benz will happily sell them when Porsche will not.

Instead of becoming lifelong customers they despise the brand and have been complaining about Porsche being overhyped. To them the GT3 RS is this years equivalent to the Lamborghini Aventador because it is a fast, paddle shift car that requires little skill to drive and is more likely to be owned by a Tik Tok influencer for clout, or mega-bucks collector than an enthusiast owner.

[GeorgeK]

Same here, I don't recognise today's Porsche either. They do what any better brand tries, create exclusivity to feed the bottom line, at the cost of the core enthusiasts. They deserve all the trouble they get.

[proporsche]

yup just imagine to check the oil level on new gt3 and similar....takes over an our with the correct equipment..crazy..got it from a friend

Ivan

[PeteKz]

I'm probably in their target audience. 60-something with more than enough assets/income, and a past and present Porsche owner.

At root, I'm a car guy and enthusiast, but I'm not enthusiastic about their current offerings, especially at their "exclusive prices" and trade-up selling strategy. I feel more connection and attraction to my olde 1973T. So I will keep it and keep driving it.

[ant7]

I also tend to agree with the OP's sentiments.
The very fact that you have to purchase several [in many cases unwanted] models before you can be on a list for maybe a chance to get the car you really want is absurd to say the least!
I'll stick with the 40 year old model I have thanks, at least its from a time when ordinary folk like myself' and no doubt many others here who had aspirations of owning something truly special.
Ant.

[montauk]

I think you may be starting out with a bit of a strawman. Porsche has always been positioned as an upmarket brand, not really “for the rest of us.” They’ve never been priced like cars that any hard‑working enthusiast could easily afford. For example, my 1980 911SC cost $34,000 when new, while the average U.S. worker’s salary was under $15,000 a year. By contrast, new MGs and Triumphs were around $10,000 at the time—less than a third of the cost of the 911.

As for the idea that Porsche has been hiking prices out of line with history, I’m not sure that’s the case. That same $34,000 in 1980 translates to about $130,000 in today’s dollars, which is right in line with the price of a new 911. Average annual salaries today are around $64,000, so the relationship between income and Porsche pricing hasn’t really changed all that much.

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Porsche is facing headwinds these days, gone are the splendid profits per car... these days, China is not doing so well, the EV models are not selling either, and they're rushing to reverse engineer some hybrids into the Macan and 718s... They pulled out of WEC, too expensive (stayed in IMSA 'cause it's cheaper). They have a couple lawsuits ongoing as well, one on chargers they throttled down instead of replacing them... I feel bad about my uncharitable thoughts as a long time fan of the brand, but I find it hard not to think "serves you right"... In my book they were the brand for the rest of us, the sports car enthusiasts that would buy them used and grow to appreciate their engineering, and one day buy them new... But lately they definitely tried very hard to go upmarket and likely left a lot of us behind, and yeah, can't say I feel too sorry for their troubles..

They've been hiking prices on their new cars since Covid, sometimes many times per year - significantly. A relatively pedestrian Boxster S is 90K+ now at a dealer. No 911s under 110K... That also had a big impact on the used market and depreciation kinda ceased to be thing.. Somehow they enrolled me in some customer opinon panel and all the Qs I get from Porsche are stuff that makes me shake my head, related to AI, gadgets in the car, influencer stuff - nothing about "hey let's build a car that doesn't bore score a cylinder or puke an IMS" ... I think they have lost their way of late - which was making great sports cars that a hard working enthusiast could afford. The dealerships started to follow the Ferrari model - "if you want a nice rarer car, you need to buy several cars you do not really want"... Not doing that was what made them a good brand, I thought. If you can afford a 918 OK, I get it, but for a base GT3/GT4 also? You want a manual? go pound sand - we only order PDK...
Anyway maybe it's just me being a bit sore my dreams of GT3s (used) went bye bye, but I see more influencer posts from them than I hear of engineering solutions to make great cars these days.. Maybe these headwinds will help long term...

[jac1976]

Montauk, interesting that you picked 1980 as a benchmark. With unbridled inflation and recession under Carter, the USD wasn’t worth much, hence the relative price of a 911 was higher than one would expect. In other words, comparing a current price to one from 1980 (really 1976-early 1980s) does not make your point.

[montauk]

Originally Posted by jac1976

Montauk, interesting that you picked 1980 as a benchmark. With unbridled inflation and recession under Carter, the USD wasn’t worth much, hence the relative price of a 911 was higher than one would expect. In other words, comparing a current price to one from 1980 (really 1976-early 1980s) does not make your point.

Here's a couple of more years:

1975
New porsche 911 - $11k
Average salary - $7.5k

2002
New porsche 911 - $67k
Average Salary - $42k

Was there a time when a new 911 was affordable for the average enthusiast? I honestly doubt it.

[jac1976]

1975
New porsche 911 - $11k
Average salary - $7.5k
Price of Porsche is 147% of avg salary

2002
New porsche 911 - $67k
Average Salary - $42k
Price of Porsche is 160% of avg salary

2025
New Porsche 911 - $122k
Average salary (2024 ballpark for individuals) - $62k
Price of Porsche is 197% of avg salary

[montauk]

Thanks for making my point. New 911's were never affordable for the average Joe.

Originally Posted by jac1976

1975
New porsche 911 - $11k
Average salary - $7.5k
Price of Porsche is 147% of avg salary

2002
New porsche 911 - $67k
Average Salary - $42k
Price of Porsche is 160% of avg salary

2025
New Porsche 911 - $122k
Average salary (2024 ballpark for individuals) - $62k
Price of Porsche is 197% of avg salary

[jac1976]

The point should be that the trajectory of Porsche prices greatly outpaces that of average salaries. Your argument using 1980 numbers was specious.

[plexiform]

Originally Posted by jac1976

1975
New porsche 911 - $11k
Average salary - $7.5k
Price of Porsche is 147% of avg salary

2002
New porsche 911 - $67k
Average Salary - $42k
Price of Porsche is 160% of avg salary

2025
New Porsche 911 - $122k
Average salary (2024 ballpark for individuals) - $62k
Price of Porsche is 197% of avg salary

--------------------------------
Find me a 2025 911 for $122k ....let me know where it is. Not sure where you are looking but the cheapest one I see is $145k. Everytime I turn around the prices at my local dealer in San Luis Obispo are another $10k higher for no reason at all. Forget about the GT cars...they are all ~$280k and up and the special models are at $600-800K. That is insanity. I know A LOT of professionals doing well in life that love Porsches and have driven them for decades. None of them can afford a Porsche 911 in today's market. Something has seriously gone wrong. First world problems I know, but a problem nonetheless.

[jac1976]

That’s MSRP. Obviously they rarely sell at that point, only furthering my argument.

[montauk]

Originally Posted by jac1976

The point should be that the trajectory of Porsche prices greatly outpaces that of average salaries. Your argument using 1980 numbers was specious.

“Specious”? That seems like a rather quixotic choice of words. I only used 1980 as a reference point because I actually own one from that year. You’re of course free to frame the discussion however you like, but my point remains: the 911 has never really been an ‘affordable’ car for the average enthusiast.