One thing that is missed in this equation:

Years ago I read an article in Car and Driver (Pat Bedard maybe?) -He did a calculation that said:

If you reduce the speed limit by X MPH you will save X # of lives. Multiply this by the average # of hours a person lives and you will save
so many life hours

But multiply the number of miles driven times the delta in speed and people will spend far longer in their cars (presumably wasted time unless it is in a Porsche) than the hours that are saved.

Now multiply these wasted hours times the GDP per person and reducing the speed limit is a huge $ loss society and a huge quality of life loss to individuals.

Superman... have you been reading Michael Moore ?;)

Hey Randy.... in the UK, if we don't like something that the government forces upon us then we let them know about it - in one way or another. We have a democratic right to protest and to have our opinions heard (I myself was at a protest in London this Febuary with over 1.5 million people. It was fully tolerated by the authorities). The government knows that if they deny us this, then they are in BIG TROUBLE.

We have a group called MAD working for us. They sure as hell don't tolerate big brother :

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_785552.html?menu=

a reply to the NY Times article

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/JunkSci.jpg

touche Ronin

"then we'd have a democracy and that could lead to, who knows...maybe government by the people, for the people. Another untested social concept."- Superman

Super? Pure Democracy is two Wolves discussing, then voting, with a sheep, what's for dinner. You are a lifelong bureaucrat...I'm lifelong private enterprise dude. A guy who tried to play the game by "serving" on local boards, without pay. That "service" time taught me a lot. Are you
sure you want to continue this debate? ;) Paul

This subject is about to get moved..........I can just feel it :-)

I vote that we include 911 in each reply..

like what political reason makes my 911 a target for the revenue agents?

Paul, right now I'm working for a Fortune 500 construction company. And I dare you to reject what I said, and call yourself a patroit in the same breath.

We've had some mildly healthy chats here and I'd still like to buy you that beer. But as my generation once said, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Listening to radio talk shows and complaining about what "they" are doing to you is nothing more than entertainment. If that.

Ummm. Oh yeah. My 911 was really fun to drive today.

the last travel/road stuff thread I was on, maybe within last 2 weeks..
I suggested a toll Hy, 8 wide lanes, long distance lane markers/white strips, maybe Montana X2 .. old Montana speed limit attitude, and expensive fuel to keep out the commercial and the slurbia crowd.. ending in Belize, Cen't Amer....

then you can do a big cruse between 80-120mph in your 911, while gathering political prospective.. which is basically timeless, and formula
..... Ron

Ahh, yes. :) We do like to drink and brawl, but when it comes to these cameras, we're absolutely helpless. There was a spree of people painting the lenses on these cameras black, here in Victoria.

Our State Government budgeted for AUD$58,000,000 for the '02-'03 fiscal year from Speed Camera revenue. For the '03-'04 year, they're working on a whopping AUD$365,000,000. Funny how our statewide fatality "Road Toll" won't be affected by an inversely proportionate manner compared to the funds raised by jacking decent taxpayers. :mad:

F*^% the revenue-raising mo-fos!

My solution was to just buy a radar detector on my last US vacation. They're as illegal as hell here, but it works a treat and is permanently wired into the 911's harness, via a little hidden switch. It's paid for itself a couple of times over since last August... ;) And the 911's not even my daily driver!

My licence was suspended for three months back in January because I incurred 12 -- or more -- demerit points.

Here in Australia, you are awarded demerit points for selected traffic infringements -- the amount of points you receive is proportional to the severity of the offence.

Now, I consider myself to be a safe driver. I do all the things good drivers do, and I know how to handle a car. My licence wasn't suspended because I own a Porsche. Most of the (minor) offences were committed while I was driving other, less capable cars. It was suspended because our state government knows that strategically-placed speed cameras is a clever way to compensate for economic mismanagement -- a lot of timid people in this country have bought into the myth that speed does in fact kill.

The irony is that I sped -- and still speed -- to avoid our worst drivers, and, in Melbourne, the world's most livable city, is actually home to the world's worst.

I was without a licence for three months because our government won't pay attention to all the good, water-tight arguments being put forth for mandatory driver training in school and a more rigorous and demanding testing procedure for aspiring drivers.

Am I pissed off? No. I'm positively livid and disillusioned, to the point where I want to buy an old Bronco just so I can rip all these fixed speed cameras out of the goddamn earth.


Matt Holcomb
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Ronin - you are the man! Good counterpoint, especially to those that are familiar with statistics. Unfortunately – the press reports as gospel, then you get a retraction on printed on page five three days later.

Superman and Paul – you guys both have valid points, as usual, but I think the truth may lie somewhere in the middle. I think only now people are starting to understand how things are generally done on the hill but until there is some sort of campaign reform – that has some real teeth - it has no chance of getting better, and even with campaign reform there will always be some sort of influence. We, the people, created it and we, the people, need to fix it.

Jpinkert - I like your idea too - Sort of like voting them off the island - you get so many points - maybe 50. 25 which can be called in by fellow drivers - 25 from the law - once you get to 50 you lose your license for 6 months. That might get everybody's attention and may curb some of the road rage incidents. Flip someboy off and they can call you in for 5 points. Flip five people off and you better be careful and obey all the traffic laws.

Sorry I'm rambling now. Damn my 911 is running well (knock on wood) The new brakes I installed a couple of weeks ago are finally bedded in and work great! I have a really firm pedal by following the advice of this board and bleeding with my old pads in place (and speedbleeders). The AVS Sports I have finally been scrubbed a little and they are really sticky now.

Life is not a spectator sport. Get involved, be the ball.

from todays local paper.. we're off topic. so WTF



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1058554430.jpg

Belgik, back to the accident that you mentioned earlier. The story took place
in the Paris suburbs a couple years ago (I think we are talking about the same
accident).

Some guy (say Jean-Pierre) comes back from work late afternoon and bumps into some friends.
One of them, who is actually more of an acquintance, has a brand new 996
convertible that the local dealer kindly let him borrow. Somehow, Jean-Pierre ends up
in the car with two buddies for a test drive around the block. He has never driven a Porsche before.

He decides to show-off the car and finds himself driving downtown at 100 mph. The problem
is, there is a speed-bump that he has not seen. He looses control of the car and crashes
into a bus stop packed with folks waiting for their ride home. Four persons are killed. Amongst
them a mom with her two kids. The driver and his friends run away. The defense tried to argue
that a police car had cut right in front of the car, causing the accident, but I don't think that this was
taken too seriously.

Needless to say, this made a lot of noise. The story was part of a TV program dedicated to
car accidents and safety on the road. Porsche was mentioned several times throughout the program.
Not in a negative way. The idea was that you just should not put this kind of car into anybody's
hand.

Until you've been to Boston, i dont think you should be making any claims about how bad Melbournes drivers are :-)

Its common practice here to dive across 3 lanes at the last minute with no signalling to make your exit. Tailgating seems to be some kind of sport, my ex used to sit in the middle lane a car length from the car in front while the other 2 lanes were clear WTF!!!.

And don't get me started on how bad the roads are... We have craters not potholes..