Hitler was Right

[tabs]

Before I read this article in the NY Post...I postulated that the only rules in war are that there are no rules.....

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/1200.htm

After reding this article I say let's wipe the SOB's off the face of the Planet...Fk em, let em meet Allah. Practice "maximum ruthlessness" in return, and none of this Mambe Pambe Civilization stuff...in war it's either gona be me or it's gona be you...better off you. Kindness in their eyes is weakness.... and the only thing thats gona get their atention is to trample them under the hooves of your horses as the Mongols were so fond of doing.

The last time the West acted accordingly was in WW2...and what happened the Germans got tried for conducting a "war of agression." What a joke what war isn't agressive, and the victors have a long history of putting the vanquished to the sword...remember the Trojans or Carthage.... Incidently the USA conducted unrestricted Submarine warfare on Japan, the British Firebombed the Reich indiscriminately...Hamburg and Dresden come to mind...the USA Firebombed Toyko and dropped two of the big ones on Japan....the ONLY country in the world to do so. Of the 90,000 German prisoners of war at the Battle of Stalingrad only 5000 returned to Germany 10 years after the war ended, the rest died in Soviet Gulags. This was what was necessary to our defeat our enemy in war.....Hitler had it right when conducting war it's no hold barred.

[island911]

[feign] oh i am soo offended. . . you said Hitler had it right [/feign]

Yeah, "limited war" is a bit of an oxymoron, when it comes down to survival . . . or insane drive for power. (whatever)

[BlueSkyJaunte]

People continue to harbor the concept that members of Al Qaida, Hamas, Baath, etc. are human. They are not. As soon as we stop affording terrorists the same "rights" we afford true humanity, the terrorists will begin come to their senses. They exist because we let them exist.

You do not negotiate with a rabid dog as it attempts to tear out your throat. You shoot it. It's called "tough love".

[Planter91C2]

did you see that special last night on about josef mengele, made me ashamed to own a german car

[Isabo]

If there is no option to a war then it should be quick and total. The biggest mistake the west has made in recent years was not completing business in Iraq the first time round.

[tabs]

After reading most of the pertinent literature on Germany's experiment with Facism...it is an easy conclusion to make that the Nazi hierarchy were largely a group of morons, who were enchanted by a AMORAL charasmatic leader with twisted ideas. (Thats not to say that there weren't some really bright men involved...Hitler, Goering, Speer, Goebbels were intelligent..but intelligence doesn't necessarily mean that your not Amoral.) But what of the Greater German nation of decent folk who went along knowingly or not wanting to know....this is a question of just how far man has transcended the beast within or in other words just how civilized man really is? For the Nazi regime really let the beast within loose...

The Holocost was an abomination anyway U want to cut it, along with all the other mass murders of the 20th century. Western civilization seems to take special notice of the Nazi...German genocide of the Jews, Gyspys, Slavs, or just physically or mentally disabled. While the genocides in Armenia, Ukaraine by Stalin in the 20's and 30's, Cambodia in the 70's, Balkans and ongoing African Tribal slaughters continue on without the same outrage. Perhaps it is because it was perpetrated by a supposed Civilized Western European Nation that so horrified the West. Smacking on the moral superiority of the West's while less is expected of less civilized perhaps non Judeao/Christian peoples of the Planet. As the Japanese slaughter of the Chinese during WW2 has not raised the same eyebrow as the carnage the Germans perpetrated.

[dd74]

Okay: you hit it on the head with your third and second to last sentence. That is why we took any interest in WWII other than the obvious economic boom that was predicted to follow.

I increasingly think that new wars are based on economics. Hell, economics is war - look how we've dismantled the Soviet Union with almost no shots fired.

You make a valid point with the Judeo/Christian angle since that was what also got us involved with Yugoslavia. We hate to see people who look like us get slaughtered, even when done by people who look like us. Others who have no resemblence, same-strain of religion or other deep ethnic roots to who we are, don't matter as much unless the unrest in their region is of strategic or economic impact.

Liberia: look how long it's taken GW to even think of committing troops there. That is a big 'ol nasty sitch down there. I'm thinking Somalia all over again.

The article you posted makes me wonder what we'll do with Iran. They appear to be a larger threat than Iraq (where ARE those WMDs, by the way?), and N. Korea, unless they like collective superpower circle jerking, is another very large threat.

My belief is Bush needs reelection. My belief is once Bush will/is reelected, then it's carte blanc. The Middle East will either be mown over or roll over. It'll be one large U.S. colony akin to Britain/India in the 19th Century. There'll still be an Islamic religion, but those guys are going to be bowing east at noon while wearing Abercrombie & Fitch khakis.

Personally, I think N. Korea is gutless. They, however, possess tangible military threat, plus they're hard-headed. N. Korea might actually take a non-protracted war (read: long-term battle) to neutralize the country. And this is without considering the China angle, though I bet if we take away their Coca Cola, Big Macs and Levis, they'd do whatever we say.

See, war is economics. Bliss is GOOD economics.

[tabs]

Economics implies rationality...under pressure humans lose the ability to reason..fear, panic, rage all take over...it is the rare indivdual that keeps his head under adverse conditions... You can ask Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm 2nd about that one.

Perhaps what I have been leading to is that the West has been trying to fool itself into thinking that West is morally superior thus more civilized then the rest of humanity. The West after WW2 held War Crimes Trials, and now seem to abhor the use of force and/or have a collective hissy fit when there is any collateral damage in other words non combatant casualities or when there are any Allied Troop casualities. The news media screams out 2 more dead American Soldiers or 3 innocent civilians killed by US airstrike. When in actuality the West is as barbaric as the rest of humanity...after all it is the West that can turn a blind eye and do nothing to ameliorate the slaughter of millions taking place in the world, and it was the West that spawned Hitler. So to say the West plays by rules while others don't is a sham because the West only makes rules that give it an advantage. In other words the West stacks the deck.

Charlie Rose has made the arguement tonight which I have been making all along. That a USA military presence in Iraq, puts pressure on Iran, Syria and the Saudi's to do it our way...Thus the occupation or reconstruction if you like of Iraq was a GEOPOLITICAL MOVE. Thus the arguement over WMD and Oil are merely fluff meant to distract people from seeing whats actually going on. In a sense the US is telling the Muslim world these are the rules your going to play by or your going to be in a world of hurt...Kiss the Taliban Goodbye, Kiss Sadamn Goodbye...NEXT....Either your with US or against us. If U notice Iran, Syria and the Saudi's are saying yes to the US's requests a lot more quickly now.

I concur if GW is reelected in 2004 the strong arm of American Power will be given carte blanc...and it will be PAX AMERICANA.

The worse thing the US can do is give creedence to North Korea, to give them player status... to ignore them is to marginalize them and make them impotent...to do anything else is to feed their meglomania and then they will truly become a threat...because they will become heady with their own power.

[Milu]

Originally posted by Planter91C2
did you see that special last night on about josef mengele, made me ashamed to own a german car

You always have the option of selling it if it's giving you a problem.

[BGCarrera32]

As soon as we stop affording terrorists the same "rights" we afford true humanity, the terrorists will begin come to their senses. They exist because we let them exist.

Agreed. Case in point illustrated below. Terrorist on left, ding dong on right...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

How Arafat got a friggin' Nobel Peace Prize I'll never grok...

[dd74]

I agree, Blue: it's beyond me how that man won the Nobel. "Lie" is so in his face about being outside the circle of his own state-sponsored terrorism that really he should be getting the Hasty Pudding award. Or a pie in the face!

As for Tabs, if WMD and oil is a veil for what U.S. troops are in Iraq/Iran for, then the long-term goals of the occupation are elongated by at least a decade or two. And in this, I envision Burger Kings everywhere, etc. For the short term, all that can be taken from the country is oil. Hence "security" is a long-term, hopefully "high-yield" investment, don't you think? So if what you're saying is true, Pax Americana is definitely where we're headed.

Saudis - they'll jump through hoops for us, particularly because they don't want the Bush Administration to disclose language that they sponsored the hit on the World Trade Centers. The U.S. would be calling for their heads on a stick if that happens. Bush, et al, is the only thing keeping Saudi Arabia from becoming glass.

N. Korea - the perfect "bomb" for those guys is to drop copies of James Dickey's "To The White Sea," on their heads. About the a WWII-era "Terminator" soldier from Alaska who gets shot down during the Tokyo firebombings - I'd be scared ****less to meet an American soldier like that if I was a North Korean.

They could always be nuked. I think the ROW would side with us on that...

[tabs]

I think there are a lot of Saudi's who support Bin Ladenism...the return of the Holy Land...Mecca...to be returned to a Theocracy, to rid themselves of Western influence..in essence to return to the 14th Century values of Wasbism.

So did the Saudi government or Royal Family have a hand in it OFFICIALLY...NO I don't think so....did members of the family, members of the government, members of the clergy, business men fund, support, lend a hand, look the other way...YOU BET.

You can NEVER trust what an Arab tells you, cause it most likely is what he thinks it's what you wana here. It's better to watch what they do.

[dd74]

Originally posted by tabs
You can NEVER trust what an Arab tells you, cause it most likely is what he thinks it's what you wana here. It's better to watch what they do.

I think Robert Smith of "The Cure" mentioned this in a song...

I think Satre mentioned this in a book...

It's been a while for both. I'll have to listen and read...

[350HP930]

Before everyone gets all too high and mighty about the US and its fight against terorrism, lets not forget that the US has been a long time player in supporting terrorism around the world against our 'enemies'.

Whether its been the creation and backing of people Pinochet, Saddam or Bin Laden our government has been an active participant in the slaughter of innocent people for no other reason than the fact that they held political views that were 'unfriendly' to US interests or empire.

I often wonder how many americans are even aware of the fact that former president bush pardoned Orlando Bosch who was an anti-castro terrorist convicted of blowing up a cuban airliner full of civilains.

When you drill down underneath the BS and propaganda that tries to paint one nation's terrorists as a freedom fighters and vice verse it becomes evident that there is nothing more going on than the age old program of one empire trying to defeat another, with the ultimate goal of controlling the world awaiting the ultimate victor. Human morality must be managed by painting the agressor as the saviour of humanity

Be as starry eyed and patriotic as you want about it, but any american who is willing to support the slaughter of innocent arabs due to the actions of a few criminals and corrupt governments are just as bad as the arab terrorists who were convinced to kill innocent americans for the sins of our government because their leaders and holy men convinced them that it was the right thing to do.

[dd74]

Originally posted by 350HP930
...but any american who is willing to support the slaughter of innocent arabs due to the actions of a few criminals and corrupt governments are just as bad as the arab terrorists...

Welcome to an American presidential approval rating of over sixty percent.

[tabs]

Hey 350Hp in a 930....Your an American Citizen Right....Bin Laden has said "Kill Americans where ever they are." He put a target on your head, doesn't matter if U are a Holy Man or not your American and that is Good enough for him to put that target on you.


Now let's suppose for the sake of arguement that everything you say is correct..and a lot of it is with more context added. Which side of the fence do you fall on? I would have to presume that you fall on the USA side of the fence... if you are on an airplane taken over by Terrorists you wouldn't be giving them a helping hand and saying "Kill the Infidels" at the top of your voice now would you? So whether your country has clean hands or not your still on the side of the USA. I have long said that our country doesn't have clean hands and that every citizen who lives here and benfits from the life style that is available here bears some of the responsibility for the actions of our governmemnt.

[dd74]

Originally posted by LynnsABCs
The US education system's history classes seem to skip over much about the Korean War. Before you assume the N. Koreans are gutless, you need to read a little history. The N. Koreans are so gutless that they beat to death an American Army officer at the DMZ a few years ago over the issue of triming some limbs off a tree that blocked our view.

We do not want to go back to N. Korea in a ground war unless China is on our side this time.

As far as Bush being re-elected in 2004, the American economy will be the deciding factor in how that pans out. People vote their pocket books.

It is all well and good to do the eye-for-and-eye thing and treat terrorists as animals, but it means we become what they are. In fact, the US reaction from Sept 11th of attacking an Arab country means we became just what BenLaden (sp?) said we were.

We need a big fence around the US like Israel is doing and tell the rest of the world to go to hell.

Hey I like your wisdom. Too bad it's unrealistic.

1) Isolated incidents don't count. I stood in a DMZ zone once when I was nine years old. I wandered a little too far from my father. I had Kalishnikovs pointed at me, and the back of me Poppa's hand across my ass until I was damn near purple. If I was blown apart by bullets, I would have been the first non-combatant nine-year-old American kid shot to death over his own inability to stay close to his old man on a misguided tour of South Korea. Big deal! Isolated incidents can happen to anyone. They're still gutless. Circle jerks extraordinaire, playing a superpower's game by taunting us with 20-year-old nuke tech. Whether they gang up and hack apart a soldier, or shoot to death a kid, they wouldn't withstand the sort of firepower we possess today as compared to their technology of 20 years back, at the least.

2) The China angle's a no-brainer. They're on our side now anyway. Enough of our tech, tee-shirts and all else get made over there for 15 cents an hour.

3) Last I checked, the market was up 141 points. Pres. approval is getting close to 70 percent. Dems have straw men with very little campaign budget to go against the GW juggernaut. Plus they all sound like thwarted one-night-stands. Don't worry, George'll be reelected.

4) Like it or not, vengance is in the human nature, country of origin not withstanding. Batman can teach you that.

5) Tell the ROW to go to hell and you'll end up pushing your Porsche instead of driving it. What needs to be done is convince the ROW that our actions are for their benefit too, whether you or I believe they are for anyone's benefits aside from Bush and his close-knit groupies.

[350HP930]

Originally posted by tabs
Hey 350Hp in a 930....Your an American Citizen Right....Bin Laden has said "Kill Americans where ever they are." He put a target on your head, doesn't matter if U are a Holy Man or not your American and that is Good enough for him to put that target on you.


Now let's suppose for the sake of arguement that everything you say is correct..and a lot of it is with more context added. Which side of the fence do you fall on? I would have to presume that you fall on the USA side of the fence... if you are on an airplane taken over by Terrorists you wouldn't be giving them a helping hand and saying "Kill the Infidels" at the top of your voice now would you? So whether your country has clean hands or not your still on the side of the USA. I have long said that our country doesn't have clean hands and that every citizen who lives here and benfits from the life style that is available here bears some of the responsibility for the actions of our governmemnt.

While the idea of defending my life and the life of other innocent people is not of issue here, what I mean to ask is what is the uncivilized warfare that you so ambiguously propose.

Should we be dropping nukes on all arab cities becuase many of their citizens don't like the way that europe and the US has been interfering in their internal affairs for hundreds of years?

Some of them might become terrorists, right?

I may be a US citizen, but I am not a dolt who is going to support my government when it tries to do the wrong thing.

More people need to start thinking why it is that terrorists want to target americans. Its not becuase we are non muslim or rich.

Its because many arabs see the US as the major power who is directly responsible for many of the humiliations and hardships that they face.

The main way to eliminate terrorism is to eliminate US interference in middle eastern affairs but thanks to Israel and the worlds largest oil reserves this is not likely to happen, even if terrorists start taking out US cities with russian nukes.

For those that think the correct response is to attack nations full of innocent arabs with military force and killing their leaders is like thinking that right response to the oklahoma city bombing was to militarily attack Utah and Idaho and assasinate right wing radio hosts.

[adrian jaye]

2 things

1 The old law of an "eye for an Eye",leaves everybody blind.
Martin Luthor King

2 You can smash and destroy peoples homes, cities and lives. You will not destroy there "heart", there will or self-determination.

If you want change, you can not impose it, threaten it or wage war for it. You can only convert people to it.

For every person you kill, for every city you turn to rubble, you make more terrorists more people willing to die.

THink about 911, did the US, turn round and say, "Oh gosh, weve been taught a lesson, lets give in to these terrorists demands"
mmmm ? no I dont think so, yall got up and kicked butt.

SO why do you think that "any other" country would do less.

Dont forget that in the west, almost everyone has access to media, "free" media. I have the freedom to challange my goverment and its views.

IN the mid -east, your lucky to see any news other that whats been censored by the government.

And most people in the poorer sections, (where terrorists are being recriuited) only know one thing, they are poor, they have no food, no supplies no mediacl treatment. That there coutry is being attacked by a much beigger and powerfull aggressor.

While 90% of the worlds population is poor and needy and rest dont give a sh.I.T, dont expect things to change much

peace