American paranoia

[Aurel]

A french pilot from Air France was arrested at JFK for joking that he had a bomb in his shoe:

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=200308091552000123845&dt=20030809155200&w=APO&coview=

So who is the most stupid?
The pilot who did that joke, or the morons in the security who don`t realize that if he wants to crash the plane, he does not need a bomb for that...
I am always scared by people who apply rules without thinking. This is how good german ended up burning up jews.

Aurel

[bell]

and what reason would you have to say you have a bomb in your shoe while getting on a plane? especially if he was the co-pilot.......

co-pilot = moron

[pwd72s]

Aurel? You'd be paranoid too...once you realized everybody was out to get you! So, just what is your gripe with the USA? Does it upset you that we in the USA haven't turned totally socialist yet? Or is it the fact that the USA is the big kid on the global block, and can kick anybody's ass it chooses to? I'd think instead of being so upset, you'd be thankful you weren't on the list of those who need an ass whuppin'. If living here in USA's New Jersey is so stressful? Well, there ARE other places on the planet to live. Speaking for myself only, I'm getting really tired of your condescending posts about how bad life in the USA is, how bad the USA in general is, what a bad system we have, how bad we all are for supporting our president, ad nauseum. BTW...the "innocent" Muslim, here in Portland, Orygun? The one, when he was arrested, who had all the leftists in this state coming to his cause? Gee, he just turned stoolie, plead guilty and turned government evidence on his fellow terrorists, in exchange for a lighter sentence. Was he an idealist? Or, just another punk, like many others out there? So, "DO YOU FEEL LUCKY, PUNK? DO YOU????" Aurel? How about a nice big cup of...shut the **** up! (Sorry for the rant guys, but jeeze...I really am tired of all this pseudo intellectual & anti USA KRAP that seems to be out there on the boards now that we're supposed to have fogotten about 9-11-01. Well...I haven't fogotten!)

[bell]

Originally posted by Aurel
This is how good german ended up burning up jews.

Aurel

dude.........i didn't see this the first time i read your post..........are you STUPID? or are you just trying to offend people........i'm not jewish and it irritated me............ this i think is a little over the top for even you................

are you comparing the US to the nazis? you better get your $hit strait

[RoninLB]

some people shouldn't depend on their eyes when their mind is out of focus

[island911]

Originally posted by Aurel
. . . .
So who is the most stupid?
The pilot who did that joke, or the moron . . .

. . .who thinks a bomb threat, at a security checkpoint, is acceptable behavior? (Aurel)

. . .esp. for a pilot! If anyone is going to be versed in airport security proceedures, it's going to be a pilot. What an idiot. The french-flyer should be pulled 'just' for demonstrating piss-poor judgement.

Aurel, are you defending him just because he's french? If so, you've got a LOT of work ahead of you.

[Milu]

Originally posted by Aurel
A french pilot from Air France was arrested at JFK for joking that he had a bomb in his shoe:

So who is the most stupid?

Aurel

The pilot obviously. He is; the representative of an airline, flight personnel and on duty. The security people were simply following correct procedure, the pilot deserves to be disciplined by his airline when security finished with him and given refresher courses on security and public relations.

Originally posted by Aurel

This is how good german ended up burning up jews.

Aurel

That analysis is too simplistic to warrant serious comment.

[Aurel]

I am not upset with the USA in particular, and I am not trying to defend this french pilot either. What I am permanently upset with is when people apply rules and procedures without looking further than their nose. Pilots can carry guns in the cockpit, right ? So why search them. And there is an axle in the cabin anyways. This makes absolutely no sense, and it is probably why this co-pilot, who was upset of having to take his shoes off all the time, made that stupid joke. What is especially upsetting is when one has to deal with robotic governement employees, who can only apply the rules, not their common sense. Dealling with brainwashed people makes you feel like making bad jokes. And an aparatus of brainwashed people is precisely what nazi Germany was. I am not implying that this where the US is now, but this is where it could be someday, that is all.

Aurel

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Aurel
I am not upset with the USA in particular, and I am not trying to defend this french pilot either. What I am permanently upset with is when people apply rules and procedures without looking further than their nose. Pilots can carry guns in the cockpit, right ? So why search them. And there is an axle in the cabin anyways. This makes absolutely no sense, and it is probably why this co-pilot, who was upset of having to take his shoes off all the time, made that stupid joke. What is especially upsetting is when one has to deal with robotic governement employees, who can only apply the rules, not their common sense. Dealling with brainwashed people makes you feel like making bad jokes. And an aparatus of brainwashed people is precisely what nazi Germany was. I am not implying that this where the US is now, but this is where it could be someday, that is all.

Aurel

Get used to it. I simply don't fly anymore.

[Pete Pranger]

You guys mind if I jump in here for a minute?

I will be the first to say that I HATE security checkpoints. I know nobody "likes" them but you should try going through them several times every day you work. I have actually worn out 2 pairs of shoe laces from taking my shoes off every time. As much as I hate these things I understand their need. It wouldn't be very hard to duplicate my uniform and pass someone off as genuine.

I do agree that the TSA is out of control. We need to do something that really disturbs the liberals....racial profiling. I know it has gained an ugly reputation, but if we really want to prevent this from happening again we need to stop the ones doing it. Last time I checked a six year old girl travelling with her family hasn't been responsible for too much terrorism lately, yet that is who they were searching yesterday morning right in front of me. They are going out of their way to "prove" that they aren't "profiling" so they are avoiding the exact people that any reasonable person would consider. You might consider asking Mr Mineta the head of the DOT about this. It would seem that the "red flags" they are currently using to identify possible threats (one way tickets, paying with cash, etc) weren't used by ANY of the hijackers on 9/11. I wonder who appointed this guy. Oh yeah, it was Clinton.

Back to the question posed by Aurel. The screeners have ALWAYS had a "zero tolerance" policy about "joking" about this stuff and there are a fair number of signs to explain this. There are 2 reasons for this policy. First, you never know who is just "joking" and who is telling the truth, so they have to err on the side of safety. The second reason is for the other passengers. What if the screener did nothing about this pilot and they just laughed it off? Other people surely heard him, so what are they to think? What would you think? I had to cancel a flight a few years ago because as one of my passengers was passing the flight deck, he looked in and said "didn't I just have a beer with you?" Funny right? The rest of my passengers didn't think so, because I had to get a breath test to prove that in fact I had not been drinking. It took over 4 hours. Fun right? I'm sure you would have understood that he was "only joking" right? I owe it to myself and to my passengers to not let the frustration I may feel going through security get the best of me. He should have known better. BTW this has happened to several domestic crews over the years too. Oh, and not all crews carry guns, and even the ones who do still have to go through security, so they can remain anonymous.

Zeke, I'm sorry to hear that you don't fly anymore. It's gotten better out there. I just can't imagine never being on an airplane again.

Pete

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Pete Pranger

We need to do something that really disturbs the liberals....racial profiling. I know it has gained an ugly reputation,

Mr Mineta the head of the DOT I wonder who appointed this guy. Oh yeah, it was Clinton.


Zeke, I'm sorry to hear that you don't fly anymore.

IMHO,
during war there are various "socially correct" behaviors that need to be modified. it's easy research for WW1 & WW2 info.. and during no-war the pendulum suings. the historical problem Now is the modified power of special interests vs old .. kinda like a near galaxy alien having a good world look-around and asking "take me to the manager".. or trying to shepherd a herd of cats.

and to understand history you must understand the whys and results of warfare..
and in the early 1970s senator Frank Church castrated the CIA.. so, IMHO, it's time for the pendulum to swing.

[350HP930]

Well, while the reactionaries who make up large parts of security organizations (and also part of the membership of this board) are busy racially harassing people people waiting to board air craft and gain access to other sensitive areas of the US infrastructure I'm sure that people who really intend to harm people can use people who will pass as non arabs or avoid these inconcequetial roadblocks all together by doing something like driving a large car or truck bomb into a nuclear facility.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by 350HP930
Well, while the reactionaries who make up large parts of security organizations (and also part of the membership of this board) are busy racially harassing people people waiting to board air craft and gain access to other sensitive areas of the US infrastructure I'm sure that people who really intend to harm people can use people who will pass as non arabs or avoid these inconcequetial roadblocks all together by doing something like driving a large car or truck bomb into a nuclear facility.

Take another bong hit dood.

[Pete Pranger]

350HP930,

Finally somebody who actually recognizes where I fall on the "political spectrum" (actually, I'm just slightly right of reactionary). I don't know of anybody in the DOT or TSA who fits that bill but we can always hope, someday..........

I don't want to "harrass" anybody, but even the supreme court in 1975 found in US v. Brignoni-Ponce that a "mexican appearance" of a cars' occupant could be considered in the stopping of a car near the Mexican border when looking for illegal aliens. The court noted "the government has estimated that 85% of all illegal aliens in the country are from Mexico", therefore the ethnic appearance of a person should not be ignored. The only difference here is that 100% of the terrorist acts commited on US airlines have been committed by Muslims, this isn't a "profile", it's a "description of the suspect".

Do you have any evidence at all of ANY Muslim extemist ever doing anything to "pass as non-arab"? Quite to the contrary, historically they have changed to become LESS like their western enemies (us).

-Jose Padilla officially changed his name to Ibrahim
-John Walker Lindh changed his name to Suleyman Al-Lindh in high school and then to Abdul Hameed while with the Taliban.
-Richard Reid was ID'd by the French as Tariq Raja and answered to Abdel Rahim.
-The elder of the DC snipers changed his name to John Muhammed who registered the car used in the sniper attacks, on 9/11/02 and wrote the time as "8:52am", you guessed it, the time the first plane hit the WTC.
-None of the 9/11 hi-jackers bought their tickets under western names.

Not exactly trying to "blend in" were they? But you wouldn't want to use any of that as an indication that somebody might want to check them out. I'll bet the cop that stopped John Muhammed in MD a few days before they were arrested wished he had looked at him a little more closely (yeah, because of his name).

You mentioned in another thread about how Bush should be held acountable for the FBI report about the flight school that was "stifled". But isn't that EXACTLY what you think should have been done? Just because we have a group of Muslims at flight school doesn't mean anything, right? Do you think the FBI would want the ACLU raining down on their head for "racially harrassing" a group of Muslims that hadn't done anything? You have to pick a side on this one. Either bury your head in the sand and wait for the next attack or actively look for the next potential threat.

BTW I'm not talking about doing anything like setting up "internment camps" like the Democrats did to thousands of innocent Japanese in this country.

As an interesting note, a nuclear reactor is the ONLY structure designed to withstand the impact of a B757. But I do think that you are correct, the next attack (or attempt) will be something other than an airplane.

Pete

[tabs]

Originally posted by Pete Pranger

I do think that the next attack (or attempt) will be something other than an airplane.

Pete

BYE BYE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE....or maybe Disneyland....

[Aurel]

The best way to protect airlines from muslim terrorists without harassing everybody else would be to cover the seats in all airplanes with pork leather, IMO

Aurel

[350HP930]

Actually, several suicide attacks in Israel have been performed by arabs disguised as hassidic jews and anglos.

Appearances are easily changed and aliases can be used, so using appearance and names as a PRIMARY means of catching potential terrorists is completely ineffective.

The 9/11 terrorist didn't need to disguise themselves since there was nothing about being arab that would have set them apart from the thousands of other arabs flying planes that day.

The fact that many of them attended flight schools for strangely limited training and/or were known terrorists is the reason why many of them were being investigated by the FBI and the CIA long before 9/11.

If you think the reason why the feds were watching many of them was because they had arab names and appearances than you are quite clueless how legitimate criminal investigations work.

Timothy McVeigh was a pretty nasty terrorist and there are many other people out there like him. I want security personel looking at suspicious people as potential terrorists, not just people with certain racial characteristics.

[tabs]

How would any of U know what a Terrorist looks like or sounds like? Have any of you ever met one?

[Z-man]

Getting back to the original post by Aurel:

Anyone, I mean ANYONE can dress up like a pilot when going on an airplane.

No one should be beyond being checked. IMHO, the USA airport security was years behind the majority of European airports back in September, 2001. Now, we are trying to catch up.

I doubt the idiot french pilot would have been treated any other way at Zurich Airport, Budapest Airport, Telaviv Airport...etc. He was really stupid for doing that, and trying to intimidate a security worker.

I have a suggestion for you: once aboard an airplane, before take off, pretend you're saying hi to an old friend, and yell this across the isle: "Hi, Jack!" I'm sure everyone will be rolling on the floor with laughter.

-Z-man.

[speeder]

It was a well known fact to me in the 1960s, (and I was in grade school), that there is no such thing as a joke about bombs or hijacking at the airport. Because of the serious nature of hijackings, (they were common in the '60s), the airlines/airports had a "zero tolerance policy" toward joking. How a professional airline pilot could not know this in 2003 is incomprehensible, I'm sorry, but he must be an idiot.