I don't blame us first...merely point out that we as a country are not innocents in this game. Our government needs to ackowledge that we might have something to do with the attitudes held by others. Instead it seems like there's lot's of "why us?" and a renewed push to remove personal freedoms in the name of security.

Unfortunately, there are very few winners in this game...

Actually Mikkel, the ISO standard is YMD HMS. That's year, month, day, hour, minute, sec. See the logic?

My Mantra has been...The US doesn't have clean hands, but name a country that does? Name a country that doesn't act in it's best interest or put it's interests first? What I don't like is all the Blame America proponents don't take any of the responsibility for American actions...yet they Directly benfit from the "terrible" actions America takes. They live here and take part in the system...they use the goods and services that are provided to them by the American government and corporations.

Also yea who is without sin cast the first stone...all the people who take potshots at the Bush administration lets see if you could navigate a better course. The key to the Bush administration is not that they don't make mistakes, because they make plenty of them. But if you look closely when they realize that they have made a mistake they change course to correct it. Which is more than can be said of other Presidents and world leaders in the past century. Hoover and LBJ quicklycome to mind.

Now because some people don't like the course of action the Bush administration has taken it doesn't mean that it wrong or won't suceed inachieving it's goal. It may be the long way around or it maybe a short cut only time will tell.

Yet the Bush Administration deserves the support of the American people no matter how grudgingly given for doing what it's perception of the "right" course of action is to protect the American people from having another 911 or 12/7 happen. Perhaps the thing that is most disliked about the Bush administration is that they come right out and honestly say America is for Americans, and American interests come first. Which is exactly what EVERY NATION STATE IN THE WORLD DOES.

Also realize it is a big world out there with many competing interests, even within our own government for limited resources...so that no President or Prime Minister has as much control over events as supposed. "So a man's got to know is limitations"

Is hard to believe that 2 years later we are still looking for the people that did this terrible attack.

I remember thinking that during the Afghan campaign, the smartest thing the guy standing next to Osama in the cave could have done would be to kill Osama and feed him to a camel.

It would drive the Americans crazy to never be able to find him.

The same thought occurred during the Baghdad bombing about Saddam.

Here we are, still looking for both of them.

I just heard that the $67 Billion dollars asked for and granted for the Iraq mess runs out to $1160. for EACH and EVERY household in this country. So much for that brake upgrade.

singpilot, are you really complaining about the cost of this?

Think about how much tax you pay monthly. Then tell me where it all goes . .. what do you get for those tax dollars, and do you feel you're getting a "good deal" supporting all those "programs?"

2 years ago today we lost more Americans (in one day) than since 1812. . .. and the majority of those, 2 years ago, where women, children, innocent workers.

"brake upgrade" . . .give ME a brake; no "upgrade" needed.

Singpilot, check out the piece in today's WSJ op-ed page on the cost of all this. Believe me, we're gettting a bargain even if Bush's request is a down payment. Preventing another Sept. 11 from happening is worth whatever it costs. I'd much rather us fight them in Iraq and Afghanistan than fight them in our cities.

I totally agree that this renewed push to remove personal freedoms in the name of security, is a sham.

Though, on the notion of "we deserved it" . . .THAT is whacked!
(yes I know you didn't say that explicitly. . .but that is the sub-text)

You know the French are pretty upset with all these english speaking people in their country. Does that give then the right to come over here and start killing innocent Americans?
. . Americans don't give a rats ass about their funny language; and that DOES "have something to do with the attitudes held by others" (the french).

They're using what they can. . .

binladen, etal are leveraging what-ever excuss they can to try to recruit for their mission. You can try to take away those excusses, thru appeasment, but I'm sure they will find other excusses. They have to, in order to keep their power base alive.

Interestingly, many liberals out there accuse Bush of using this war situation for adding to his powerbase, but (somehow?) these liberals never accuse binladen etal of the same. *That* is sick and stupid.

ramble done

Island911,

I think you missed the point. I would have rather finished the fight no matter what the cost.

I (as well as you) have no idea where our tax dollars go. I have worked for years as a beneficiary of of some of those 'black programs'. My point was that the average joe has no idea how the external workings of our foreign policy come home to roost, except in dollars.

2 years ago we lost a lot of innocent people because of a failure of external policy from administrations past. I lost friends 7 years ago directly because of administration policy being changed to facilitate a fractured foreign policy stance. It got uncomfortable to support our stance, so we cheaped out, and 2 days later, people died. Don't you dare accuse me of going cheap. I left the program because the President went cheap, and now there are widows and orphaned children.

My point was that dollars spent preventing the problem are miniscule compared to 'fixing' the problem.

The reference to the brake upgrade was that what I wanted was about a thousand dollars.

Give me the brake.... I didn't want to go here.

It was a simple observation.

Thanks for the clarification.

reallize your previous post could be read as nothing but complaining; ie: shoulda done this, haven't done that. . .now it's going to cost a lot. . .and has caused inconvienence.

Today, of all days, is not the day for 'monday morning quarterbacking'

Island911;

Thanks. When I re-read my piece, I see how it could have read the other slant. I knew what I meant and felt, and assumed that was transparent. You are so right about today and hindsight.

BTW, the area of the world I was working in was the northeastern Yellow Sea. I was flying from the big red blob that borders the western Yellow Sea to the divided yellow blob at the northern end of that body of water.

We have yet to really deal with that situation, but the mainstream press here is finally paying attention, i.e., the recent declaration that they are now a 'nuclear power' and deserve better treatment from Uncle Sam. We had them dead to rights once, and went cheap. We will pay for that someday soon.

Richard;

I did read that article. Met their (WSJ) Asia correspondent while over there. She felt that the US policy in the region was being driven by Trade Agreements with Mainland China. Even the Taiwan situation was being coddled to keep the mainlanders happy, while allowing the US Frigates to 'exercise in the straights' kept the Taiwanese happy and the mainlanders at bay. Another powder keg that we are straddling.

Is really a good time to stay domestic. We really do have it pretty good here. I'd like to keep it that way, whatever it costs.

Thanks again

Well Island, you were right that I didn't say that, and in fact it wasn't even a subtext (I read between the lines...heck, I even wrote between the lines). We didn't "deserve" 9/11. And yes, binLaden is a lunatic and is clearly using circumstances to his advantage.

It's a lose-lose situation. We're in the middle of a country trying to install "democracy" (whatever that is) in a land that has NEVER known it. Why are we the arbiters of what defines freedom?

The number that died in terrorist attacks pales in comparison to the numbers that die of hunger, violence, obesity, and any number of other ills in our own country. This we should have some control over (as opposed to hunting in caves looking for WMD and insane madmen).

The problems are too complicated to break down to any one or two issues. And my head hurts.

Every body dies from something. But, this day, 2 years ago, thousands were killed. There is a difference.

Furthermore, these killers have made their intent perfectly clear -- to eliminate the "infidel" everywhere.

Genocidal killers, with the means to carry out their plans, are a bit bigger threat than obesity. ..donncha think?

Killers with means are, and always have been huge problems. They do, in fact, create a loose-loose situation.
Ignoring them does not work; paying attention to their "issues" does not work.
Hunting them down and killing them does work. . .as long as we don't try to kill them by bringing them to the US in hopes they will die from obesity.

Hey maybe you are on to somthing. "Death by McGriddle" has a nice ring to it.

I agree, I really dont like that.

Are we saying towel heads in general, ie by that someone who wears head gear, i.e a Sikh/indian ? are we saying the "whole" of the UAE states ? What about the citizens of the US who are by "your" definition a "towel head".

I dont play with that.

Its also a generalisation then that all muslims are terrorists ?

I remember an article the day after 9-11, an asian(indian) guy in a gas station got knifed by some dumb ass backwater, klan wannabees, who thought he was a muslim. Even if he was, did he commit some crime.

Generalisations like that are dangerous, more over cos stupid people belive it.

I have no argument, with putting the ppl who committed/aided and abbeted/planned this whole attrocity, up against a wall and de-balling them.

But when Sheeeet like this flies around from people who should know better, it puts the safety of people in "that group" in doubt.

And that includes me, think about it !

When any organization calling itself a religion, uses the Deity as an excuse to kill those who do not believe the same as they do, we have a problem. As far as the majority in the Middle East, there is a schizoid aspect of Islam that may be the result of their fractionated hierarchy which results in two things: Murderous hatred of Muslim sects toward other Muslim sects and a universal "belief" that everything that is wrong with their part of the world is the fault of somebody else. Sadly, over a thousand years ago, the world of Islam was the protector of science and civilization. Those days are far in the past. The rest of the world passed them by and that angers them. I would suggest reading the Quoran. Like many religious books it is full of inconsistencies and contradictions, obviously subject to individual interpretation. Until, if ever, the majority of Muslims in that part of the world take back their religion, demand that their leaders (Imams) work together and not as feudal lords, there will be no true peace in that part of the world. As long as the religious leaders preach in a xenophobic manner, the problems will continue. But, why should they stop? Would that not mean a dimunition of their influence? Remember: In the Muslim world, religion comes first. Everything else including simple tolerance is a distant second.

Not a rant....the observations of someone who has been there.....

Can't say much with certainty just 2 years after Sept. 11th, but this much seems true:

From this place and from this day forth commences a new era in the world's history, and you can all say that you were present at its birth. - Goethe, at the Battle of Valmy, 20 September 1792


If we do not hang together, then we will surely hang separately. -- Benjamin Franklin

One last quote.....

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Attributed to Augustus Ceasar, Winston Churchill and Benjamin Disreali

I would have LOVED to drive my 911s on 9\11. But I was working an R.E.M show, and I dont drive my 911 to the arena, when I working a concert.

(worked a Phish concert last year, drove the P car. Came out after we loading all the equipment up after the show, to find my antenna in the shape of a ?.)

Moneyguy1 - you are exactly on target - my thoughts exactly. Combine this with a largely uneducated and poor population and you have a good picture of what the world is facing. Until they (Middle East) accept the practice of tolerance the entire region will be a source of instability that will effect the entire planet.

How we will address that issue has yet to be addressed - at least through the media.

What do our liberals have to say about practices like this :Jordan's family honor policy A society that accepts such policies is for all pracical purposes living in the stone age. Evolution needs to occur in the Middle East.

As an example, look what the Mormon church did to ensure its existence. In 1879 the U.S. Supreme Court began cancelling citizenship to Mormons who practiced (under LDS sanction) plural marriages (polygamy). It wasn't until the government threatened to take temples and land that the church conveniently "recieved" another "relevation" from God instructing that marriages must follow the law of the land.