Construction Defect

tabs · 12-05-2003, 01:39 PM

I have to shake my head in amazement. I really felt STUPID when I got caught buying a Defective Home. But I have figured there ar at least 170 other home buyers in the same development that are stupid right along with me. But if I thought I was treated shabbily, my new neighbors have far surpassed me.

I have a new neighbor 2 doors down. They moved in about 2 weeks ago from AZ. They bought the same model as mine. When they did their "Walk Through" to note any defects that needed to be repaired by the builder before closing, they noticed several lenghty cracks in the Dry Wall in the Garage, Living Room and Front Bedroom. Along with 22 or so other items mostly minor that needed correcting. There was some disagreement on the amount of closing costs, which were eventually ironed out by the Builders Attorney.

However now that the house has closed escrow, the new owners can't get ahold of the Builders Sales Manager. Trying to get any of the items fixed on the list has now become near impossible. The Builders explaination for the cracking was "The house is settling" and thats to be expected.

Anyway yesterday I went and met the new neighbors, and was informed by them as to what had transpired. The one thing that got my attention was a 10 foot crack in the slab in the garage that was 3/8 inch wide. It had been epoxied. I then told her the facts about the neighborhood and gave her my attorneys number. I basically told her that the closest 2 houses that had been there for some time, were both Construction Defect Buybacks resulting from a law suit. That the other two houses closest to her in my direction were in litigation over construction defect.

Unfortunately it is my belief that the location of her house makes it a ticking bomb with a short fuse. The house has been finished since August and is allready the exhibiting damage I described. It will start to disintergrate so that it will be unlivable in about 2 years. In between they will get to watch the cracks grow on a daily basis. My neighbor across the street does just that.

A lot of people that I tell this to think well how bad can this be? Once you've seen it, they become believers. what I don't get is why people in my neighborhood don't get more upset about this. Even homeowners with cracks are passive and think oh well if we just take out some Dry Wall and replace it, it will be OK. Believing what the Builder tells them. Wrong you have to fix the foundation of the home, otherwise it will crack again. They don't realize the Builder isn't going to fix the REAL problem unless you win a judgement against him. They remain ignorant of the facts and aren't willing to realize that their investment in their homes is at stake. Sure their homes are worth something, but at what kind of reduced level. If you've had any testing done your house is unsaleable due to the fact that you have to disclose the defect information. On really bad houses even major patching won't hide the fact for very long.

Now heres the upshot of the whole thing. The Builder did a Manometer test on my house in early June. After the technician was done with my house , he went over and did a manometer test on my new neighbors house. I went over and talked to the tech while he was doiing the test on my neighbors house. He indicated to me that his pleminary findings indicated the house was allready at the extreme end of what acceptable tolerances are on slabs. This was without the house having the roof loaded or stucco applied. So the Builders Sales agent knew the house the house was defective, lied to the prospective buyers in claiming it was only normal settling. Then to try and jerk the people around on closing costs... You would think that after the number of complaints and lawsuits from homeowners that the Builder and his agents would at least try and clean up their act. But all they do is keep on lying and cheating their buyers.

Moneyguy1 · 12-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Gosh...You will probably get responses about how unfair it is to blame the contractor or mechanics who built the place......

vash · vash's Garage

that is "sofa king" unbelievable. why did the loan close when all the "fix it" were not completed? wasnt that a contingency? maybe it is cheaper to get the homeowners to fight for their rights rather than fix all the wrongs. what A-wholes......

beepbeep · 12-06-2003, 05:50 AM

I don't get it...

Were you aware of this when you bought the house and just telling how your neighbor was duped by salesman or are you also surprized by this and want your neighbors to unite and do som sort of group-claim?

tabs · 12-06-2003, 10:18 AM

I didn't know the house was defective. The Builder had repaired all the cracks. I know he had crews fixing my house on 2 different occasions (you can see patch work and repaint then more patch work that wasn't repainted). If you walk into a house with four white walls it is difficult to see anything unless you are specifically looking for it. Then when you start looking with a discriminate eye...ohh boy.

I'm not looking for a Class Action suit, I am sueing on my own as is my neighbor across the street. We are both using the same attorney. There was allready a class action lawsuit against the Builder, 12 homeowners won, I believed 10 of them were bought out, and 2 elected to have their homes repaired when the offer to repurchase was less than they had invested in the home. It also has taken the Builder close to 2 years to finially repurchase all the homes.

One of my biggest concerns here is that any offer to repurchase has to take into account home appreciation. What was going for 270K in March is now going for 335K.

Most Builders in Las Vegas put Construction Defect on the back end as a warranty issue. They know they are building defective homes, they also know only a small percentage of them will have to be repaired properly. The problem will be passed on to the next owner of the property.

The homeowner agreed to close Escrow before the list of things to be repaired was completed, ususally they are minor items. That is common practice, loans interest rates are only locked for so long. Builders will promise you the moon to get you to close. Once you have closed the Builders response time for correcting the flaws in the home goes way down.

My advice is to NEVER CLOSE Escrow until those repairs are done to your satisifaction. It comes down to how bad does the Builder want to sell that house to you. In this market he doesn't need you, there are 5 other fools lining up right behind you.

vash · vash's Garage

the best to you, i hope you kick his @ss.

JavaBrewer · JavaBrewer's Garage

Most major defects are not found in the initial walkthru. As Tabs stated its not until you have a few days to really look around, have some wine, and test things out that problems surface. White walls hide a lot and there is just too much to look for.

We bought our previous home new from the builder. It wasn't until we moved in that a real problem was uncovered. We put some food down the garbage disposal (pre dog owners) and the sink completely plugged up - of course on a Labor day weekend. Attempts by professionals to snake were unsuccessful so they went in with a camera and found that a big spike as driven through the line - allowed only water to pass. Luckily the problem was not under our slab so it was a quick dig with a tractor to get the line cleared.

Beware of lawsuits against builders. Realize that once the suit becomes active few/none lenders will loan on that community until the suit is resolved. Known structural problems should have been disclosed - and most lenders require a full inspection. I was in a similar situation with a townhome I owned in Scripps Ranch - lawsuit went for 6.5 years - over some trival crap. Home values actually went down and distressed sellers could not get out - foreclosures. It was really really ugly. It pays to investigate the builder of your new home and drive through some of their previous communities, stop and talk to the homeowners. Most of them are very happy to voice their likes and dislikes.

We recently closed on our new home in March - last move for a long time

The builder did not allow a walkthru until close of escrow - though we did do a pre-sheetrock (framing) walkthru earlier. We have a full year to register any additional problems and so far they have been super responsive ~ 24hrs.

turbo6bar · 12-08-2003, 09:52 AM

tabs, do they require any sort of geotechnical testing of the soil in that area? It would seem like some drilling would confirm the unsuitability of the soil for construction. The builder appears to be at-fault, but I think the blame should also go higher up the chaim.

Would you be interested in sending some of that soil here in trade for some clay? We have tons available.

jurgen

dad911 · 12-08-2003, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turbo6bar
....... The builder appears to be at-fault, but I think the blame should also go higher up the chaim.......

Time for a builder to speak up. Here in NJ we have varied soil conditions, everything from granite & shale in the uplands to sand in southern NJ & beach/coastal areas. Frankly, it is the design engineer/architects job to design footings for the soil conditions, and the building code official's job to review said plans prior to construction, and verify field conditions during construction.

Obviously the builder would be at fault if he had prior knowledge that the structure wouldn't be suited to those soil conditions, or if the structure was not built according to the plans.

tabs · 12-08-2003, 10:59 AM

Unfortunately I used the BUilders Lender, Title and Escrow companies...I get the smell that they are all in bed together???? I don't think the lawsuits against the Builder has stopped lending on these homes. I also think that once I am made Whole I will have to leave this neighborhood because as time goes on more and more houses are going to show distress. Then who knows what property values will do???

This Builder had a previous 12 homes Class action Lawsuit against him for Expansive Soil in this development. Yet he continues to build and sell homes HE KNOWS are defective. As evidenced by my new neighbor, and the condition of his home before he even moved in! In other words he hasn't changed the way he builds these homes to accomodate expansive soil.

dad911 · 12-08-2003, 12:57 PM

Do you have a 2/10 year structural warrantee like HOW, 2-10, etc? Starting a claim with them will should get the builder's attention. He probably signed personally with the warrantee co., and will need to resolve the claim to keep the policy.

We allow customers to select their own lender, and as our title company searches the entire subdivision site when we buy it, our customers get a discount if they use our the same title company.

CHILI · CHILI's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs

This Builder had a previous 12 homes Class action Lawsuit against him for Expansive Soil in this development. Yet he continues to build and sell homes HE KNOWS are defective. As evidenced by my new neighbor, and the condition of his home before he even moved in! In other words he hasn't changed the way he builds these homes to accomodate expansive soil.

Yea, but if you sell to somebody then YOU KNOW it's defective, too. Right? You're doing the same thing. Or, are you saying when you leave it will be because of a buy-out not because you are going to sell it?

tabs · 12-08-2003, 04:29 PM

Chili..Thats what the Builder hopes I do, is pass it off to someone else. By sueing him, I am making him take responsibility for his shabby construction. Quiet frankly thats what most of the people in this tract are going to do is pass it off on to someone else. If you havn't done any testing on your home than you don't know for sure that your house is defective.

What I am looking for is: For the Builder to REPAIR the home according to the recommdations of a Geo Tech firm. In other words a permanent repair vs the patch jobs on Drywall the Builder does and calls good. I want the piece of paper that says it was done correctly with the 10 year warranty that the law perscribes. I can wave that in my buyers face and say look here it's bin fixed according to Hoyle. Then I'm offa da hook, and can sell. If the Builder doesn't want to fix it then he can rebuy the home at CURRENT FAIR MARKET VALUE for a home in EXCELLCENT Condition as the law perscribes.

My Builder IGNORED a letter my Attorney sent, which by Nevada law he HAD to respond to within 60 days. As such I go directly to Arbitration and not Mediation first like my neighbors are going to have to do. As such all caps for Damages are off, including Punative Damages for Fraud. Also my Builder has waived certain of his defenses by ignoring that letter. In the words of my Attorney, "A nothing case has turned into something."

CHILI · CHILI's Garage

Tabs,
That's cool to hear. I was getting upset thinking you were going to pass it off. It was just the way you worded it, that got me thinking that. Yep, that would be the best outcome. I hope it works. I know there was a similar issue in a track up in Lancaster, CA when I lived in Palmdale (don't ask). Many of the homes were never finnished. Just studs and roofs, because the builder decided he could make extra money if he used less cement in the concrete foundations. Well, of course the first phaze started falling apart before they were even done with the other phazes.

You've all probably seen the track to which I'm referring. It was the one they burned down in one of the Lethal Weapon movies. Hollywood agreed to haul it all away when they were done, so the city agreed.

tabs · 12-09-2003, 05:23 PM

At 8 AM a horde of 25 guys decended upon my home. They dug 2 test pits that were about 3 feet deep and 2 tests pits that were 5 to 6 feet deep. Cored my driveway, and cored my cement slab in 2 places, they took soil samples to test for compaction and expansivness. Had 4 Structural Engineers go up in th attic, and cut 2 holes in the drywall in the house and 2 holes in the garage. They also did a Manometer test on the house.

The structural engineers and Geo Tech Guys were the same ones as the ones who represented the home owners in the first Class Action Suit. The guy who did my Manometer test is the same guy who did the first manometer test on my house before I purchased it in March. The head of the Geo tech firm showed me the layer of clay that expands. It so happened that the Builder left a 5 foot deep trench open for the electrical cable for the house he is building next door. Guess what the house next door thats being built is going to have problems too. The footings go down about 2 feet and the layer of expansive clay is about 3 to 4 feet down topped with sand and gravel, thus when it gets wet the water quickly goes through the gravel and expands the clay causing the perimiter of the foundation to rise. My Manometer test went from a 1.6 to a 1.8 since June...0.75 of an inch is the maximum allowable, and 1.0 if you wana give some leeway. Also the framing on my house was done better than the earlier houses they had looked at. I was told that the slab/foundation for my house was too flimisy for the expansive soil here in LV. That either you excavate down 4 or 5 feet to remove it and replace with clean nonexpansive soil or you beef up the slab foundations with footings criss crossing every few feet.

I really didn't expect 25 guys today maybe 5 or 6. They also tested my neighbors house across the street today as well. His Manometer test came back a 4.05. It seems his slab is bowing in the middle. Every houses pattern of movement is different due to the differences in soil composition. Todays Bill for Testing both my neighbors house and mine was the Greater part of 60K.

dad911 · 12-09-2003, 05:56 PM

Are these guys working for you or the builder?

For 60k you could have both probably had new foundations. Temporarily support house on steel beams, build a new foundation, and remove steel. It's not that hard, really. My father moved a few houses this way in the sixties to make way for a new highway. I know contractors that do this to turn crawl spaces into full basements, and have moved or raised houses out of flood areas.

tabs · 08:26 AM

They are working on my behalf. There were 5 firms represented yesterday. 1. a construction crew to provide labor, for digging, cutting and repairing 2. A Cement coring company 3. A Geo-Tech firm 4. An Architectual firm 5 Structural engineering frim. Under chapter 40..Attorney fees, cost of discovery including testing, moving expenses if it required when they repair a home, Rent on another home while they are repairing your home (U still have to make your mortgage payments), asundry damages, Repair, Repurchase or replacement of the home, and lost of home value due to the stigma of being a Chapter 40 home are all costs that have to be bourne by the Builder if he loses. The Builders contract excluded everything but the Repair, Replace or Repurchase of the home, this was deemed to be illegal in NV. Therefore the builder wanted to exclude attorneys fees...which would prohibit many people from taking legal action since the cost is so high. Most of the Buiilders in LV operate in this fashion for the simple reason their INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO PICK UP THE TAB.

I believe thats what they are going to have to do with my neighbors home, lift it up off the foundation and redo/fix the foundation. Then fix the structural/damage issues.My house will be much simpler

This is the thing that I don't undeerstand. Why does my Builder persist in being so obstinate? When I first discovered the problem 2 weeks after i moved in, I wrote a letter saying essentially give me my money back and I'll give you your key back. No harm no foul. No response Then I hired an Attorney, he wrote a letter under chapter 40, stating lets fix this house and move on, at that time he would have only billed his hourly rate which would have been a realitivily small amount. I/we were completely ignored. After I/we went to court and got the Arbitration date set, my attorney again offered lets settle this thing. No response. I/ we have wanted to settle this thing with the least expenditure of money if possible. But again as my attroney said, "Nothing has turned into something"

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

dad 911 the problems he describes are consitent with a slab on grade home. no way to lift it off the foundation because there is no floor joist system to hold the thing together.

i have been in construction for many years and my x was a paraleagal for a construction defect law firm so im somewhat familar with these problems. my suggestion to anyone buy a new house,, pay somebody to walk thru the thing with you. my folks got a room addition and were tickled with it. i did the walk through with the contractor and ripped his work. my favorite is pretending like you drop and loose your keys in gaps in the trim work. i had the guy tear out the window trim and redo it. it was only paint grade but i asked him if the caulking pump truck had to run much hose to get the caulk into the house. he was pissed.

its what my frineds and i call a builders eye, you have to know what your looking for. you will pay for a PPI on a car that runs 15K, why would you not pay somebody to walk thru your new 300K house?

sorry to hear about your misfortune tabs, the developers are great until escrow closes thats when you go from a customer deserving service, to a pain in the ass in thier eyes.

toby

tabs · 12-10-2003, 10:51 AM

Yep...these AZ, Utah, NV boyz taught me the real meaning of the word Deliverence. Now with the help of an Attorney I get to make them play a few bars of the song as well. Will this change anything in the scheme of things NO, except I will be far more wary next time. Also I hope that anybody reading this thread will/ may be a bit more aware if they are contemplating buying a new home.