So long, Howard...

[dd74]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/18/elec04.prez.main/index.html

[RickM]

I'm surprised he didn't do this last night. Guess it had to sink in a bit.

[dd74]

Ego IMHO.

[lendaddy]

The funny thing is this guy is as close to a "perfect liberal" as was in this race yea yea Dennis K I know Anyway why did he get the shaft from his own people? Yes, it's a serious question.

[RickM]

I feel he would have done it last night except for the fact that he said he wouldn't...no matter what. Guess he stuck to his word.

[dd74]

Originally posted by lendaddy
The funny thing is this guy is as close to a "perfect liberal" as was in this race yea yea Dennis K I know Anyway why did he get the shaft from his own people? Yes, it's a serious question.

The perfect liberal doesn't seem presidential enough to beat the quintessential republican, which is GW. That's the Howard Dean dilema.

[speeder]

Can't say that I'm sorry to see him go....., I just never liked the guy. Arrogant, egomaniac......, doesn't he just remind you of a lot of MDs that you have met in life? Probably the right personality to do your heart transplant, (where there isn't a lot of room for self-doubt), but you wouldn't want him at your cocktail party. In a game of touch football, he would maim someone then not apologize.

Ironically, some of the same qualities that I despise in Bush, (though at least Dean is smart).

It was fun to watch his fall. I have no time for un-electable ideologues, or election spoilers, (like Nader), I am a pragmatist and the winning candidate must appeal to the jury (voters) on several levels. "Do we want this guy in our living room, (on TV), for the next 4 years?"

I like Edwards a lot, but haven't paid a lot of attention to him yet. He is smart as a whip, a completely self-made man, (something that I admire in the extreme, whether liberal or conservative), what do you guys think of him?

[lendaddy]

Denis,

Since you've thrown these types of questions out there I will do the same. Do you actully respect and admire Kerry, or is it the ABB theory. If you are fond of him, what is it about him that draws you? Again yes I am serious

[speeder]

And I think that the only thing "perfect" about Dean was that he was the perfect candidate for conservatives to hate and for Bush to beat. Bush was really hoping for the quintesential, "softer than a sneaker full of *****", candidate this time around.

I never thought that anyone could make me miss George Bush I as president, his son has done the impossible.

[dd74]

I like Edwards a lot. He's well spoken, not into poo-slinging, and seems generally in touch with the country.

Did you know he's 50 years old? He looks like he's in his mid-thirties.

Problem with Edwards is that he may not be what the Dems want (or need). The Dems want to topple Bush. It's believed Kerry can do that because he "looks" and "acts" presidential. I'm not sure if Edwards has that look or Abe Lincoln-type demeanor like Kerry. But Edwards is very refreshing. It'd be interesting if he becomes Kerry's running mate. Please, don't let it be Hilary Clinton. The party, to beat Bush, can't have the type of distraction Clinton would pose.

[lendaddy]

I don't think there is any arguement that Dean was the closest to true liberal idealism of all the candidates, now if that equates to "softer than a sneaker full of *****" to you then I guess we finally agree on something

[dd74]

Well, there were a lot of Dems who did not feel comfortable with Dean. He was good with the passion, but when push came to shove, I think people realized Bush would take him to the woodshed in no time.

Kerry is more formidable, so The Administration will have to do some work to beat him in November. Dean would have been a walk in the park, I believe.

[ronin]

Originally posted by speeder
Can't say that I'm sorry to see him go....., I just never liked the guy. Arrogant, egomaniac......, and "softer than a sneaker full of *****"

sounds like a normal Dem to me

sorry Denis, I just couldn't resist

[speeder]

Len, Fair question, and one that a lot of people might be asking themselves soon. To be honest, I have not examined him in depth. As a democrat, I wish that there was a perfect candidate. Like Clinton w/o the character faults and if he went to Viet Nam. A self-made man who represents everyone from the quadripeligec in the specially-built van to the businessman who just wants to thrive and employ people.

"You may say I'm a dreamer"..... And you would be right. What's wrong w/ idealism? America was built on ideals. I know that conservatives sit around and dream of a world where the stock market just keeps going up, there are no more pesky poor people and the government surplus just ended the income tax and refunded everyone a new speedboat.

Seriously, Kerry is alright, I guess. I like Edwards a lot more on a personal level, he is just an amazing guy. A completely self-made man, American dream, etc., family guy, personal tragedy changed his course and he entered public life, balls the size of balloons, I think that he would play well internationally since he is brilliant and could sell sno-cones on the North Pole. He is what we need to begin to repair the foriegn policy damage that Bush has done. Plus, he is against NAFTA!!

So yes, Kerry is a big second choice for me, but maybe can beat Bush. (Anyone who cannot beat him doesn't deserve the job, IMO). I am (barely) old enough to remember Viet Nam, so I have to respect Kerry for serving as he did. 99% of rich kids boned out of it somehow, like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, etc...

[dd74]

I thought the war Cheney boned out of was WWII.

[speeder]

Kerry is a nightmare for Karl Rove, (Bush's political hit-man). His military service and apparently clean background make him pretty slander-proof.

Sure, Kerry isn't perfect and partied a little, like most people his age. (Grew up in the '60s and '70s). You have to remember, Bush was supposedly a MAJOR partier when younger, Rove has done a herculean job of stuffing all of that under the rug. Should any of this matter? Hell, no! But in the age of Sean Hannity and attack/smear politics, (from both sides), that is what it's boiled down to in a tight race. And nobody plays it better than Bush.

[speeder]

Originally posted by dd74
I thought the war Cheney boned out of was WWII.

Cheney wasn't born yet during WW2.

[lendaddy]

I am speaking from an idealogical point of view. What these guys did when they were 22 is largly unimportant to me. I am saying what is it in his policy line that draws you to Kerry, thats all. To me, the guy seems to have very few if any hard lines. Now this will potenially aid him in electability yet does little to stir excitement from his base. Then again the excitement for dems will be getting rid of Bush, not the man who will take his place. The difference I see is that Republicans largly believe in Bush where as I doubt the same is true of Kerry on your side. He is simply a tool for a task IMHO. I mean listen to Dean supporters and they are excited about his beliefs! Listen to a Kerry supporter and all you get is "he can beat Bush". Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me. I don't even think your average Kerry voter even knows much about him do you? Helll, I've read dozens of article about Kerry and I couldn't tell you what his core beliefs are. Seems aweful empty.

[dd74]

Originally posted by speeder
Cheney wasn't born yet during WW2.

Hmm...could've fooled me.

[RickM]

Don't they call Edwards the "Botox Boy"?
As far as Dems go I like him as well. He has Charisma and smarts.

The biggest joke I've seen recently was Kerry's daughter hosting town hall meetings on C-Span. She's going around promising everything to everyone. Nothing productive has been done in the last 4 years and her father is here to save us all.

More to the original subject of this thread, It struck me odd when Dean listed all the legislation that the Dems voted for, along with the Republicans, during the last 4 years..."But would the dems vote that way today?" "You be they wouldn't". So Howard what are you trying to tell us? That the dems are a lot of spineless and fickle followers?