Price of gasoline:

[speeder]

OK, without getting into a huge rant, everyone knows that the price of gas is skyrocketing. Diesel too. This is of course going to cause inflation since it will effect the delivery cost of all items, not to mention reduce most people's disposable income. I think that the smartest course is to reduce consumption wherever possible, (drive less, carpool, take the train, etc.), in order to effect the demand side of equation, (plus save $$), but also I recieved this intriguing email:

Hey guys, the only thing this email does not address is that Exxon, at
this
point in time, has the lowest fuel prices. If you don't mind paying a
few
more cents, then I think this might work. Whoever wrote this should
have
addressed this though, I know frugality may be an issue....

Bren

Alright folks, now that i've made my disclosure, here it is in layman's
terms:





I hear we are going to hit close to $3.00 a gallon by the summer. Want
gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united
action. Phillip Hollsworth, offered this good idea: This makes MUCH
MORE
SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going
around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that
because
they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy
gas.
It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT,whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
really
work.

Please read it and join with us .By now you're probably thinking
gasoline
priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $1.97 for
regular unleaded in my town Now that the oil companies and the OPEC
nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas
is
CHEAP at $1.50- $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them
that
BUYERS control the marketplace....not sellers. With the price of
gasoline
going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way
we
are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the
pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And we can do that WITHOUT
hurting
ourselves. How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop
buying
gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to
force
a price war.


Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline
from
the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they
are
not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If
they
reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But
to
have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil
gas
buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out on me at this
point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach
millions of
people I am sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you
send
it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) .. and those 300 send it to at
least
ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message
reaches the
sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION
consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten
friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it
goes
one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (If
you
don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is
send
this to 10 people....

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten
more
people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
conceivably
be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you I didn't think you
and I
had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can make a
difference.
If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND
KEEP
THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK.


So what do you guys think?

[dd74]

I think the forecast this summer of it costing 100 bucks to fill my Mountaineer is highway robbery.

I never knew my Porsche was an economy car.

[tabs]

CurtisAA sent me a copy of that....I told him I'm a shareholder in Exxon.

[layzee]

No offense, but it's about time you started paying some more realistic prices for the energy you use in the US. Unfortunately the cost to drive and repair the environmental damage done is many times what even we in the UK pay.

I find it particularly concerning that we every move we make in europe to lessen environmental impact and energy use of our vehicles the US of A gets even keener for bigger and bigger SUVs.

Now I love cars as much as the rest of you, or I wouldn't be here, I just hope the US will move towards more responsible energy use sometime soon.

[sammyg2]

Exxon and Mobil are not the two biggest companies. They are one company.

The price of gasoline is set by price and demand. If the demand goes down the price will follow.
If you really want to make a difference, buy one of those ultra econo cars that get 40 or 50 mpg. That will make much more difference that boycotting one station or one brand.

Exxon/Mobil makes a great deal of money sucking crude oil out of the ground and selling it. The money they make refining and selling gasoline is very, very small in comparison.
I seriously doubt that boycotting them will make any difference at all.

Reality check:
The only way to change the market is to reduce the demand accross the board and that aint gonna happen any time soon. people like to drive. People like to drive big vehicles. They like the freedom that comes with being able to jump in a car and go anywhere they want in what they want.

If the average Joe drives 15,000 miles a year and gets 20 mpg he is burning 750 gallons of gas a year. At $1.50 a gallon that is about $94 a month. If the price goes up to $2 a gallon that costs him an extra $31 a month. How many people in the United States will be willing to give up the luxury and freedom of driving what they want for a dollar a day? Not many. Most people will complain like crazy but will not change their habits.
if someone drives a huge gas hog that gets 10 mpg they may concider getting something a little more efficient (and they should IMO) but they drive a huge monstrocity for a reason. Either they want to or they need to.

For most people to dramatically reduce the amount of gas they use, the additional cost would have to be way more than $1 a day.

If we really want to make a difference and pay less for gasoline without giving up our freedom we should all contact out representatives in government and tell them in no uncertain terms that they must change the laws that make building more refineries prohibitive. They must stop making more laws that actually reduce the amount of gasoline that is refined. They must stop making laws that force refiners to make gasoline that is so exotic and expensive to refine that other companies cannot or will not continuosly spend incredible amounts of money to compete in what has become a closed market. They must stop listening to special interest groups that care more about a spotted sand flea than they do for your gasoline costs and freedoms.

In other words, instead of trying to reduce demand, whay not increase supply?
It may not be as tree-hugger green peace environmentally responsible but how many of us are really willing to give up driving for the sake of an impercieveable change in the environment? I'm sure there are some, and good for them. I fear their numbers will be too small to make and difference at all.
I don't like pollution. I also don't like extremists with power. I feel the special interest groups have gone way too far and we are paying the price. The sad thing is, they are getting away with it and will continue getting away with it until the general public wises up and realizes that the oil companies aren't the ones jacking around with the supply, our own governent is.

The current rise in gasoline prices are directly atributable to three things:
1) Some refineries are performing routine scheduled maintenance on the plants which requires shutting down production. This is a fact of life for refineries and must be done periodically. In fact it is required by law to perform certain maintenance in order to maintain operating permits.
This maintenance is almost always performed during the winter because it has less effect on the market. In california refineries are actually required to do scheduled periodic shutdowns during the winter months. Any deviation from that requres special permission and draws an incredible amount of scrutiny and accusations of market manipulation.

2) several refineries I know of have experienced unplanned reductions in production due to break downs or the scheduled shut downs have taken longer than expected due to start up glitches. It happens. It didn't used to make much difference to the market, but that was when there was a larger percentage of excess refining capacity.

3) Actual excess refining capacity has been reduced. Demand has outpaced supply.
There have been no new refineries built in the United States since the late 1970s AFAIK.
Countless refineries have shut down or gone out of business because there just wasn't enough profit to keep going. Most small independant refineries are dead and gone.
Most bigger existing refineries have expanded in an attempt to increase production but this is limited by government regulations.
Numerous changes in gasoline specifications have required the refiners to spend $billions on upgrades and changes to the refining processes. This is money that could have been used to increase capacity but wasn't. This also helped to drive out the smaller refiners.
Recently the government banned the use of MTBE in gasoline. Prior to this ban up to 10% of the gasoline sold in California was actually MTBE. Take that away and you have 10% less gasoline available.
The MTBE is being replaced with ethanol but it is not possible to blend it in the same percentages and still meet the government specifications. The current percentage of ethanol in California gasoline ranges from around 3 to 6%. That leaves us with less available product in a market that was already marginally capable of meeting demand.
See a trend here?

I'm all for the public getting involved, but people should do their homework and become knowledgeable before becoming an activist. Otherwise they will end up being part of the problem instead of the solution.

[lendaddy]

Holy balls

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND

This is why we need to teach economics in schools(not just one class every four years). This guy actually thinks he makes sense.

The rate of actual price increase on oil over the last several decades is a joke compared to virtually all other commodities. It is this same guy that won't say a word when Kerry reinstitues the marriage penalty or they raise (gasp) gas taxes. Again I say, "what am I dealing with".

[motion]

At $2 per gallon, gas is still cheaper today than it was 20 or 40 years ago. I'm all for allowing the oil companies to make a nice tidy profit. They'll employ more people and the money goes back into the economy anyway. And Phil in the UK is right... we Americans are pigs when it comes to consumption. I don't blame the rest of the world for looking at us in disgust as our wives drive $40k SUVs that get 10 mpg. That is completely disgusting. We need to change our driving habits and change them NOW. Enough of hogging the world's natural resources.

For my part, I work out of my home and drive approximately 150 miles per week total. My vehicles get lousy mileage (993 and F150), but a fill up will last me a few weeks.

Is driving a big, hulking SUV really worth what we put the earth and other countries through?

[real550A]

lendaddy-
It's the same thinking that says "they should tax the big corporations more".
Some people actually think big corporations pay taxes!
(for those of you in Rio Linda, corporations don't-consumers do)

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by layzee
No offense, but it's about time you started paying some more realistic prices for the energy you use in the US. Unfortunately the cost to drive and repair the environmental damage done is many times what even we in the UK pay.

I find it particularly concerning that we every move we make in europe to lessen environmental impact and energy use of our vehicles the US of A gets even keener for bigger and bigger SUVs.

Now I love cars as much as the rest of you, or I wouldn't be here, I just hope the US will move towards more responsible energy use sometime soon.

Absolutely right!!!

I was going to say the same thing. Having lived overseas for 15 years I can atest to the fact that our "high" gas prices are indeed very low in relation to the rest of the world.

Layzee also brings up a good point about the SUV obsession. Hopefully higher gas prices can bring about some change to the american "bigger is better" SUV mindset.

Also, how much more are you having to pay?

2.05 * 25 = 51.25
2.35 * 25 = 58.75
--------
$7.50

If people can't afford to pay 8 or 16 or 24 extra dollars per week, then they shouldn't be driving a 50k gas hog.

I hear Ford is making the Escape with a hybrid next year. I heard the same thing about the Honda Element.

So, yeah, next time you're cruising in 2nd gear at four thousand rpm in the pcar, you might want to consider shifting into third.

[motion]

Filling Up Abroad

If you think gas in the United States has been expensive, you only need to compare the prices we pay to those in other countries to see that things can always be worse — and in some cases, better.

10 Most Expensive Locations Price per Gallon*

Hong Kong, China $5.38

London, England $5.05

Oslo, Norway $4.54

Seoul, South Korea $4.52

Paris, France $4.28

Jerusalem, Israel $4.27

Amsterdam, Netherlands $4.23

Espoo, Finland $4.19

Stockholm, Sweden $4.16

Tokyo, Japan $4.16

10 Least Expensive Locations Price per Gallon*

Caracas, Venezuela $0.40

Jakarta, Indonesia $0.45

Kuwait City, Kuwait $0.76

Manama, Bahrain $0.82

Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates $0.92

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia $0.93

Cairo, Egypt $1.00

Kiev, Ukraine $1.00

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia $1.08

Beijing, China $1.34

[motion]

History of gasoline prices, corrected in dollars:

[lendaddy]

Guys, oil costs what oil costs plus transportation fees, thats it, end of story. ANYWHERE you pay more than the cheapest place in the world is due to government taxation and regulation(small transportation difference). Simple, I don't care what you pay at the pump in London, Hong Kong, or Paris as the gas actually costs the same. WOW

[lendaddy]

motion, your chart says it all! nothing to complain about.

[motion]

BTW guys, I was in Baja on my bike a couple weeks ago. All gas stations in Baja (and maybe Mexico in general, for all I know) are PeMex stations, owned and operated by the government. All have the same price: About $3.20 per gallon for crap gas. We really have nothing to complain about here.

[dd74]

IMO it's not so much the price, as the lame excuses for raising the price - at least lame in my view.

What is "summer gas," or "winter gas?" Is there a discernable difference? Are different gasoline blends necessary?

Do other countries have seasonal gasoline?

It'd be easier (for me) to deal with $2.50 or even $3.00 per gallon on a consistent basis. But when the prices go up without warning, it feels as if the consumer is being taken advantage of. Why should the consumer have to foot the bill for "maintenance" of a system that inherently will charge us more?

Is the word "monopoly" out of the question?

[lendaddy]

Actual pump prices are determined by what it will cost the staion to replace the gas you just pumped, plus their profit margin and whether or not the manager was too lazy to change the sign(yes this happens). Since it trades as a commodity it fluctuates all the time, much more often then gas prices change. Watch the ticker on oil prices when it goes up stations change their signs(after a couple middlemen ofcourse) when they go down they do the same (albeit with a slower gate). BTW they get no warning when futures go up either It's a good system and it works.

[lendaddy]

dd,

Here in Michigan we don't have seasonal gas? I am guessing (just a guess) that Cali requires refineries to change the formulations by season hence more cost. Can anyone confirm this? It really is a guess.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Here in AZ we have seasonal gas. I think there's ethanol in it some of the time and MTBE in it for the rest of the time. Isn't MTBE going to be phased out, because "they" found it leeches into the groundwater and ends up being worse than the problem it was intended to solve?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I think the complaint most consumers have is not that gas prices are so high, but rather they fluctuate in a predictable pattern that favors the petrol cos. For example, if there's merely a rumor that OPEC is going to meet over pork 'n' beans instead of McDonald's, the petrol cos. use that as an excuse to jack up the price 10% over the course of two or three days (or even overnight). However it takes weeks for that price to return to "normal" when it turns out nothing happened.

[vash]

a solar panel on every home in the U.S.to generate electricity would leave alot of fuel left over for our cars. they could even drop the smog laws. and we could organize a collective "finger" towards the middle east.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

My next house will have solar and wind power.