More teen posts - police harrassment?

[dd74]

A woman I work with told me of an altercation her son was in with an LA County Sheriff in the City of Industry.

It seems he was pulled over by the sheriff on Saturday night, and asked to get out of his car. He was asked if he had a "hot date," when in fact, her son was returning home from work, hence the tie and jacket he wore. He's 16 and works at the Olive Garden restaurant.

The boy was eventually cited for having improper headlights - the sheriff stating that the headlights were blue, when in fact, the modified headlights are "white" in color. Also he had his car lowered.

This, by the way, is a late-model Honda - an Accord or Civic four door, I think. And the boy was driving down a side street - possibly famed for street racing.

Finally, after more questions, the officer asked that the boy "open the hood" so the officer could "check for modifications," of which there were none.

In result, the boy received a fix it ticket, though there was nothing "marked" on the ticket to fix - the officer left it blank.

Now the boy's father has to go to City Hall to find out exactly what should be done about the ticket.

One way or the other, it seems like this kid was hassled a bit. What do you guys think?

[Par911]

One way or the other, it seems like this kid was hassled a bit. What do you guys think?

Yeah he was hassled, but it comes with the territory of being young and in a modified looking car. Did the kid have a permanent tan? The harassment is pretty much expected if he has pigmented skin, since racial profiling is an everday problem in the US.
I have been there many times before. In my experiences, something like that is harassment, but it isn't as bad as having guns drawn on you during a "routine traffic" stop. If I was the parent, I would go to court with my son.

[RickM]

I agree that he was most likely harrassed.
I'd go to court . The cop will have to show up and explain why he didn't fill out the detail portion of the ticket. The boy and dad just have to be prepared to defend their position with whatever evidence thay can gather....know the statutes, have pics and any technical literature. HOWEVER, the boy may have had the fake HID bulbs and in many states those are illegal.

When you say altercation I think more along the lines of him slugging the sheriff.

[vash]

was he a person of color?
i know racial profiling is illegal, but social profiling? there are some great law enforcement folks out there, but there are some real dicks too.

from a legal perspective, could he have refused to open his hood? search warrant needed?

[Par911]

from a legal perspective, could he have refused to open his hood? search warrant needed?

That's the same thing I was thinking, but wouldn't the officer have probable cause if he sees the lights and "believes" that they are of a different color and wattage than is allowed for the street?

[dd74]

Originally posted by Par911
Did the kid have a permanent tan?

Yes, he's Latin-American. I don't know the sheriff's ethnicity. But for what it's worth, I haven't seen much black-on-black or brown-on-brown police-private citizen hassling in Los Angeles.

[vash]

now, being older and wiser. i would have asked him if he needed a search warrant. and then if he said no, what was his probable cause. then i would write it all down.

younger me, i would have cracked under the pressure, hoping this didnt get back to my mom!

[dd74]

Originally posted by unfixed
was he a person of color?
i know racial profiling is illegal, but social profiling? there are some great law enforcement folks out there, but there are some real dicks too.

from a legal perspective, could he have refused to open his hood? search warrant needed?

You see, that was my question. What would happen if he refused to open the hood. I think the officer played upon the kid's age too. He probably would have threatened him with impound.

[Par911]

I don't know the sheriff's ethnicity, I haven't seen much black-on-black or brown-on-brown police-private citizen hassling in Los Angeles.

If LA is like the east coast, it is sometimes worse to get a colored officer since some of them act as though they have something to prove.

younger me, i would have cracked under the pressure, hoping this didnt get back to my mom!

Unfixed is right, I probably would have done the same thing if I was younger. I think thats why some officers get away with giving teens a hard time, since they are more concerned about having their parents find out or they don't know the laws well enough.

He probably would have threatened him with impound.

Either that, or threatened him with the nightstick!

[djmcmath]

You're not actually allowed to open the hood at a routine traffic stop. The officer is allowed to search areas accessible to the driver for weapons as a safety measure. However, the trunk, which is not accessible to the driver, cannot be searched without probably cause. The engine bay, similarly, is not accessible to the driver while operating the vehicle, so searching it is not legal.

Moreover, "probable cause" requires that there be a reasonable suspicion that a CRIME has been committed -- using blue headlights is not a crime, but rather an infraction. Same with modifying your car -- traffic infraction, not crime. So even if your son had blatently illegal (traffic infraction) headlights, unless the officer could somehow claim that he believed there was drugs or a dead body under the hood, his search would be illegal.

But back to the other side -- rules of evidence don't particularly apply in traffic court, like most of our constitutional rights, so for traffic infractions, officers are pretty much allowed to do whatever they want with absolute impunity.

So if stopped for a routine violation, and the officer asks you to open your hood, what should you do? Makes no difference. Explain that you do not agree or consent to the search, but that you recognize he will use force if you don't, then open the hood -- anything they find cannot be used because they used coercion to get the hood open. Or don't open the hood, and make him go through the hassle of obtaining a warrant, which he almost certainly won't get.

How's that? (Oh btw, nothing here is legal advice, I'm not really a lawyer, I just read too much.)

Dan

[lendaddy]

"You're not actually allowed to open the hood at a routine traffic stop. The officer is allowed to search areas accessible to the driver for weapons as a safety measure. However, the trunk, which is not accessible to the driver, cannot be searched without probably cause. The engine bay, similarly, is not accessible to the driver while operating the vehicle, so searching it is not legal."

Actually you can search anything the driver gives you permission to search.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Actually you can search anything the driver gives you permission to search.

True, true. The trick is to either not grant permission or to note that you're only granting access under coercion. I thought I said that later in the same post, but I could be wrong. Memory's a bit screwy in the old age, ya know.

Dan

[ZAMIRZ]

ROFLMAO, that ain't *****. I was with with 3 friends in my buddy's Chevy Impala and we got pulled over by 3 police cars (with 2 more responding after we were stopped), thrown out of the car aggressively onto the pavement, cuffed with guns to the backs of our heads and the only thing the cops would ask was "Where is the gun?!" They searched the entire car, didn't find anything and eventually let us go and gave my friend a no front license plate ticket. I don't care what people say, but 90% of cops are ego-tripping pricks who were probably treated like ***** as children and feel the need to get back at society for having a lousy life.

[TimT]

but 90% of cops are ego-tripping pricks who were probably treated like *****

**** you amir

Perhaps when you grow up a bit you will possibly have a respect for the profession. I am not a cop but some people very close to me are..

[ZAMIRZ]

Tim, I'm sure I will as well. Young people constantly get harrassed by cops, and I'm not the only victim. I can't count how many times I've been pulled over in the 911, asked to have my car searched, asked if I have any knives/guns/beer/alcohol on me or in my body. Asked where I'm going and why, given bull**** tickets for ridiculous stuff like curfew. Been humiliated in front of my friends and family because I've had to call home and explain to my parents why I was pulled over. I only know 1 cop, he's an iranian guy who's chief of police in westwood and he even told me to my face that because of my age and the car I drive I am more likely to be pulled over.

You can say **** you to me all you want, but that's the sad truth of the matter.

I've only been pulled over twice by what I would consider cool cops. The 1st time was because I was speeding on the 101 freeway late at night. The officer pulled me over (officer Parent, I'll never forget his name) and told me I was doing 90+ and that he had it on radar, I told him I was extremely sorry and that I really shouldn't have been going that fast but that I wanted to get home and go to bed because I had work early in the morning, which was the truth. He went to his car and came back, gave me an 80 in a 60 and sent me on my way, that's what I consider a cool cop. Another time, I made a U-turn on some street in BFE Diamond Bar somewhere and got lit up because of it. I explained to the officer that I was totally lost and that I'd asked another motorist which way the freeway was and was just making a U-turn to get back to the freeway. He asked me where I was from and he even gave me directions and the easiest way to get home, that's again what I consider a cool cop.

Now let me give you an example of a couple of total pricks. The 1st incident was the one I already mentioned, gun to the back of my head and pretty much trying to coax me into admitting something that never happened. The other one that pisses me off most is when I walked out of Mcdonalds on my cell phone at 11:00 p.m. and got to my car, decided to finish up my conversation before getting out on the road since I try to avoid driving and talking as much as possible and I got a goddamn loitering ticket / curfew ticket for standing by my car leaning on the fender on the phone. Fair enough, I was 17, out past 10:00 p.m. I'll take the ticket, but here's the kicker, the cop asks whose car it is. I say it's mine, he looks at the registration and my father's name is on it. He calls my house at 11:00 p.m. on a Wednesday night, wakes my parents up and starts explaining to them why I'm being cited and at the end he says "by the way sir, your car is fine". I gave him a little chuckle and told him he's a real class act, that son of a *****, I'll never forget his name either, Officer Cheun. He even gave me his business card so that I could call him if I had any questions. I took him to court and fought the ticket and won, on the grounds that it wasn't very late and that the judge felt I did the responsible thing in finishing up my phone conversation before getting into the car.

And finally, the bad incidences outnumber the good ones approximately 9 to 1, that's where I got my 90% figure from.

[nostatic]

I had some interesting pull overs in my youth. And I'm white, although I had longer (and more) hair back then. One time I got out of my van to see 4 units tucked in behind me. I just put up my hands and said "is there a problem officer?". He gave me some bs story about a van like mine following somebody for miles. I could hear them run my plates...when it came back clean the smile drained from his face, he gave me my license back, and that was that. Another time I got pulled over late at night (I was coming home from a gig, at which I had half a beer about 5 hours before). I was driving my POS baja bug dressed in gig clothes (fatigue pants, paisley shirt, leather hat...hey, it was the early 80's). He asked me a bunch of weird questions, saying there had been robberies in the neighborhood with a car like mine involved (yeah right...a 40hp baja bug as a getaway car ). Anyway as he starts walking back to the car he does a Colomobo, "oh by the way...do you drink?" In my car there were a few empty beer and wine bottles in the back seat, all very long dry. I said sometimes. He asked if I drank beer. I said yes. He asked if I drank hard alcohol. I said on occasion. He asked if I drank champagne. I said no. He said, "ok, thanks...have a nice night."

frickin' twilight zone. And yes, I was 21 at the time.

[dd74]

Bad cops, bad doctors, bad parents, lawyers, politicians, even bad dogs - it's all transcendental.

I think Amir's has legitimate beefs, but honestly, they aren't all bad. I believe you, like my workmate's son, ran into the wrong cop at the right hour when any cop could be the wrong cop. Youth does not help in this situation, either.

I knew some LAPD who were real pricks. They even said they were real pricks. Classic film noir types with hints of "Bad Lieutenant."

But for the time that I did know them, they were some of the best friends I had.

[dd74]

Originally posted by nostatic
Anyway as he starts walking back to the car he does a Colomobo, "oh by the way...do you drink?" In my car there were a few empty beer and wine bottles in the back seat, all very long dry. I said sometimes. He asked if I drank beer. I said yes. He asked if I drank hard alcohol. I said on occasion. He asked if I drank champagne. I said no. He said, "ok, thanks...have a nice night."

C'mon, Todd: don't you know when a cop is hittin' on you?

[vash]

my girlfriend has a theory: only the policemen with moustaches have the ego issues....

[bell]

did ponch have a mustache?