You want me to understand these people!!!!!!!

lendaddy · 03-25-2004, 07:12 AM

You gotta read this, it makes me sick actually physically ill. Poor kid. This is why I cannot understand their cause. Legitimate my ass. Read it!!!

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/408359.html

djmcmath · 03-25-2004, 07:21 AM

I'm right there with ya, lendaddy. A couple of years ago, I found a really great article about how the Palestinians would shoot their own stone-throwing teenagers at mob-scenes against the Israelis. It went on to talk about how our (US) media totally plays up on it, too, about how the Israelis are all evil for murdering poor innocent stone throwing Palestinian youths and what-not. If I can find a link, I'll post it for everybody's edification.

Dan

lendaddy · 03-25-2004, 07:27 AM

Try to picture if you will the group of militant adults persuading this kid to strap on the belt. "Come on kid, don't you want to be hero?" "do it for allah, just imagine those virgins". F'ing pathetic! Poor kid is now screwed, he will go back to school and catch even more hell for "chickening out" again, this is sick!

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

That is cowardly to send children to do your dirty work, but unfortunately it's not the first group nor will it be the last. I appreciate the freedom & security that we are blessed with in the USA, & am gratefull to the folks in the Armed Forces that keep it that way.

lendaddy · 03-25-2004, 07:39 AM

This makes me this Israel has adopted a great new policy. Kill the leaders. Activate 25 teams of "special forces". Have each team given a list of 20 militants a month. Their goal will be an 80% kill rate at the end of each month. No one under say 16 or 18 would be a target. Distribute leaflets to the palestinians saying what you are doing and why, explain that there will be a cease fire after 3 months of this. If terrorist actiuvity dramatically declines the cease fire will be extended. Needs refinement, but I like it so far.

singpilot · 08:04 AM

Even more pathetic is that this youth is mentally under developed. 14 years old with the developmental age of 8. Is why he was taunted in school. And why he was targeted as a potential martyr by the Palestinians.

I just withdrew one of our airplanes and crew from a charter to Tel Aviv for Passover next week. Even tried to move the plane and crew to Elat, and then Larnaca, Cypress in the interim. The insurance on the trip was an 80% premium. I pay 80% of the plane value for 2 weeks in Israel. Not even the client was willing to pay that.

Last week in Paris, an armed (with cannon and missles) escort vehicle accompanied the EL AL 747 from the terminal to the end of the runway, and stayed there until the plane was airborne. No one else was allowed to be near the 74 while they were taxiing.

We have it pretty good here.

motion · 03-25-2004, 08:01 AM

That is so disgusting. We live in a sick, sick world. Makes me want to buy 640 acres in Montana, put up a big fence around it and take up watercoloring for the rest of my life.

djmcmath · 03-25-2004, 08:10 AM

LenDaddy, that's a great plan, except for some minor problems. Most importantly, militant Arabs look pretty much like normal Arabs. Normal Arabs lead pretty much average lives, commuting to places in Jerusalem or the West Bank, operating bakeries and bus stops and what-not. The "militants" don't typically wear any kind of uniform, carry a red bandana, or wear black hats. They don't typically hang out at any particular place that can be carpet bombed, nuked, or sprayed with machine gun fire. And, as your article points out, there isn't particularly any age limit. Assassination of particular terrorist individuals makes more sense than anything else, really. Isolation of funding would probably help, but that's pretty tough. All out war on civilians to demonstrate raw cruelty? That'd just generate more hatred than is already there. I really feel for Israel.

Sorry, that probably came across as a lot more sarcastic than I meant it to. Good thought, keep working on it. Pelicanophiles will brainstorm together a solution for the middle east!

Dan

djmcmath · 03-25-2004, 08:12 AM

SingPilot -- my dad leads tour groups to the middle east pretty routinely. Sometimes its a lot more frightening for us family-types than others. Sometimes there are just places he can't take the group. Sometimes the places he really wanted to take them got bombed last week. It's a different world over there, and I don't think that most of us can relate.

Dan

Hugh R · 03-25-2004, 08:14 AM

From the news article..."Abdu told soldiers of his dream of receiving 70 virgins in heaven, which his dispatchers had promised him, and said that he had been tempted by the promise of sexual relations with the virgins. He said that he had been bullied at school for his poor academic performance and that he had wanted "to be a hero"

When Osame Bin Laden got to the pearly gates he was met by George Washington who promptly kicked him in the balls. Then Thomas Jefferson came out and hit him over the head with a 2" by 4". James Madison came out and poked him in the eye. This went on for a while until the prophet Mohammed came out and Osama said to him, "WTF"? Mohammed says "I said when you died as a martyr, you'd be met by 70 Virginians, what did you think I said?".

dd74 · 03-25-2004, 08:18 AM

Who'd want 72 virgins anyway?

I can say from the news footage that the Israeli soldiers, while bearing arms, were still more than civil to this child. One even gave him a military coat for the kid to wear - the sleeves dangled down to the kid's knees, of course.

Hmmm...one side sends a 14-year-old off with an explosive vest, and the other side disarms him and gives him a coat; obviously happy to save the boy's life, when they could have led him away, then shot/and exploded the bomb and the kid.

Which side is more civil?

singpilot · 03-25-2004, 08:24 AM

Dan;

My point exactly. I was in Africa for the last three weeks. Was in Morocco when the Madrid bombing happened. Suddenly the streets were 'agitated', and I kept the crew in the hotel for a day or two. Turns out the main suspects were Moroccoan. We had a bomb scare in our hotel on the Champs Ellysee in Paris. Was a piece of unclaimed luggage. The Gendarmes blew it up right there. Bits of nylon panties floated down for 10 minutes. Someone took a shot at Nelson Mandela in Capetown the day after we left there. One of our passengers had a meeting with him while we were there. While in Johannesburg, the bank across the street from our hotel was robbed by a gang with machine guns. 6 people killed, we watched the entire thing from our windows 12 floors up. Our hotel in midtown Manhattan had bomb-sniffing dogs in the lobby entrance, and everyone entering or leaving went past them. The guards had Geiger counters on us as we passed by.

It is a different world out there.

Purrybonker · 03-25-2004, 08:29 AM

Hmm... I watched the episode on BBC world news as it happened yesterday.

Quote:

Which side is more civil?

The Isrealis posed the boy numerous times so that he could be photographed by the press. At the same time the Isrealis refused to allow the lad to be questioned by the press.

What is somewhat interesting though: they took the boy into a truck for a while and then emerged to pass along the boys comments about the circumstances leading up to the incident. Once again refusing to allow anyone to question him to get his version directly. He was then wisked away for more "private discussions". Undoubtedly to be "quizzed" (can you think of a better word?) about what and whom he knows.

If the Isreali version of the incident is accurate - why not let the boy be questioned by the press? Sounds like the boy will end up getting used by both sides when all is said and done.

singpilot · 03-25-2004, 08:33 AM

I dunno. Would you want your 8-year old questioned by the media?

Purrybonker · 03-25-2004, 08:40 AM

The whole situation was being "managed" by the Isrealis for maximum PR mileage. I have no problem with that.

The BBC journalist covering the incident certainly was a bit sarcastic about the manipulation and the tidy "remarks" attributed to the boy during private discussions.

He was 14 by the way. What possible reason can you imagine why the Isrealis would not want him questioned by the press? You would think that would only serve to benefit their PR angle - no?

911ctS · 03-25-2004, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
This makes me this Israel has adopted a great new policy. Kill the leaders. Activate 25 teams of "special forces". Have each team given a list of 20 militants a month. Their goal will be an 80% kill rate at the end of each month. No one under say 16 or 18 would be a target. Distribute leaflets to the palestinians saying what you are doing and why, explain that there will be a cease fire after 3 months of this. If terrorist actiuvity dramatically declines the cease fire will be extended. Needs refinement, but I like it so far.

I like that plan.

The bottom line is that... something extreme has to be done. With these religous psycos everywhere the constant brainwashing of upcoming generations (72 virgins and all that BS) will never stop. They need to all die!! (the corrupt ones) and start form a clean slate. If not, they will just end up killing everyone else. Killing is part of their beliefs, Killing, thats just sick.

singpilot · 08:48 AM

His mother, on learning her son had been manipulated into doing this, informed the press that her son was mentally underdeveloped. He was 14, yes. His mental age is 8.

Would you want your 14 year old, or even your 8 year old, interviewed by the (admittedly biased, both ways) international press?

The Israeli soldiers probably did this poor unfortunate a favor by protecting him from that travail. If you watch him being put in the back of the van, the press were shoving past the armed soldiers to get to this child. He was scared, and the press were unrelenting.

I say the soldiers were doing him a favor.

His Palestinian mother thanked the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) for not killing him, and for protecting him from retaliation. She did it on camera, and her statement was shown on all but the Arab press. They chose to not run it.

joeclarke · 03-25-2004, 08:55 AM

Let's see here... Isreal is under pretty heavy pressure these days what with that whole Yassin incident and all. I mean every free country in the world and some not so free, as well as the UN have condemned them for this action (oops, except USA and that would be pretty much impossible - right?). Popular opinion is kinda going against Isreal these days.

I expect that this little event will go a long way to helping swing some sentiment back their way - whattya think?

Naw, can't be. The Mossad would never do anything underhanded - that's ridiculous.

Just to be safe, maybe we should try to keep an objective view of the big picture rather than focusing on PR bites that only serve to leverage emotion. Emotion goes a long way to overriding logic.

dd74 · 03-25-2004, 09:19 AM

Of course Israel used this moment as a PR opportunity. And I don't blame the soldiers for not throwing this kid to the media. The footage truly speaks for itself: the kid had on an explosive vest - put there by his own people, and the soldiers "helped" him (via a robot and a pair of scissors) to disarm the vest and get him away from it.

Again: I cannot argue the civility here. If the soldiers were brutal, they would have shot the kid, and in the process, detonated the bomb. Meanwhile, the Israelis contend with adversaries who feel their children are expendable.

lendaddy · 09:33 AM

Quote:

He was 14 by the way. What possible reason can you imagine why the Isrealis would not want him questioned by the press? You would think that would only serve to benefit their PR angle - no?

You're kidding right? Ok, say they stop a terroist outside time square with a bomb belt on. You would expect the authorities to say "hold up guys, he has to do an impromptu press conference first, then we can book him". Gimme a break! Give me one example anywhere at any time where a suspect was allowed at the scene to make a statement to the press? Let alone a child. You are REALLY stretching here. And if he were allowed to make a statement, what could he have possibly said that would make the situation any less sad and/or disgusting? What is your point?