Do you know how a Porsche is supposed to sound?

[petal]

Hi,

I’m a student from Denmark, and I would like to ask a little unusual favour from all of you.

I am taking a class, where I’m learning how to use computers for recording, composing and transforming music and sounds.

At the moment I am writing this paper on, how to use sounds from a Porsche 911 to make music that somehow capture the essence of the brand Porsche. To do this properly, I have to compose two pieces of soundscapes/music (they are both). The goal for these two pieces of music is, that they should be useful in a marketing context or as the means of “branding” Porsche, perhaps as a gimmick on the web or at a carshow.

I have finished the first of the two pieces of music, which have somehow failed in reaching it’s goal, and now I am looking for answers on how I can better achieve the goal. Therefore I would like to take 20 minutes of your time to answer a few questions, then listen to the first piece: “Sunny Porsche Sunday” and then answer a few more questions.
Your answers will be of great help to me, when I’m composing the last piece and writing the paper, so I thank you in advance!

If you don’t feel like answering all the questions, just answer as much as you feel like – I need all the feedback I can get:

Questions – The questions may overlap a little:

first round (please answer before listening to the music):

1. Name the (3-10) sounds from your Porsche you first think of, when you think about your Porsche.
2. Name the 3 sounds from your Porsche you think are the most beautiful, and please specify why?
3. How would you describe your Porsche in only 5 words?
4. What feelings does driving a Porsche evoke inside of you?


Now I would like to ask you to download the track, listen to it and then answer a few more questions. All sounds used in this piece, originate from a Porsche 911:

http://www.itu.dk/~petal/Porsche1/Sunny%20Porsche%20Sunday.mp3 (3,5 MB)

Second round:

1. Did it sound like you expected?
- If no – Why not? (and if possible, what did you expect? )
- If yes – What do you think made it sound like you expected?
2. Did you start to loose interest before the track was finished? – If yes when and why?
3. Were there any sounds in this track you particularly liked or disliked and why?
4. What do you think could be done different in this piece of music, to make it better catch the essence of Porsche?


If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you very much for your time!

Best regards,
Thomas Jeppesen
Email: petal@itu.dk

[Milu]

1.1) The solid clunk of the door closing
1.2) The low base of the engine starting up (not a standard car)
1.3) The increasing roar of the engine as one accelerates, starting again everytime one changes up
1.4) The low thump starting at the base of one's spine and rising to your heart mind and soul when the car is simply idling and waiting to rush to a new adventure.

2) 1.3 above. It's a trite phrase but "if you have to ask you simply don't understand".

3.1) Alive
3.2) Fast
3.3) Unbeatable
3.4) Female
3.5) Ideal

4.0) I am alive and there is a meaning to life.

Round 2

1) It is clever but derivative, but most of all it is bland! No 911, even the 996 if one is prepared to define it a 911, is bland.

2) My interest never really caught. I kept waiting but nothing happened, pretty much an anticlimax.

3) Like or dislike implies strong emotion. Sorry it did not happen.

4) You need to understand what a real Porsche is and then appreciate what a car like a 911 means to those that know and love them, and then enjoy the driving experience it offers as well as the engineering under the skin and the functional package as a whole.

If I had to choose music that expresses the feelings a 911 evokes in me I would choose the Rolling Stones: (Paint it black, live from Steel wheels; Miss you; Playing with fire) or perhaps Ian Dury; (Rhythm stick; what a waste) as opposed to Sting who I also happen to enjoy (dream of the blue turtles etc). Your piece only made me think of ambient music by Brian Eno.

To be useful in a marketing context you would need to understand who your target audience is and what the product is and what it means to your customers.

Which Porsche/911 is it promoting? the latest offerings or more traditional models.

"Branding" Porsche? Very dangerous topic. What kind of brand image and who decides it. A few years ago Porsche spent quite a lot of money trying to lose the Yuppy-wideboy image it had acquired for it self. It now seems to be working hard to lose its sporting image by bring out a SUV and turning its bread and butter models into GTs.

What seems to be lacking in your piece is strong emotion. Are you a car enthusiast, a sporting driver?

Porsches and 911s in particular are cars that bring out strong emotions.
Think of a green who hates all motor vehicles. Which car might he hate the most? Perhaps the car that owners most enjoy driving.
Think of an anti speed campaigner...he would be against fast cars and cars that encourage one to speed, a Porsche perhaps.
Think of a car enthusiast, what of type car might he lust after? Good looking, status, fast, well engineered, an icon?
Does this clarify my position?

Think of the joy of driving a fast car well, at high speed on a twisty mountain road. Feeling alive, awake and indestructable, with no traffic in the early morning after having had a good meal, good wine, twenty year old malt whisky and perhaps barely sober enough to drive. Two tipsy, laughing female passengers both sitting in the front seat. Certainly not legal, certainly dangerous. And certainly memorable fun.

It is this kind of feeling and emotion that personifies a 911 for me and that I feel is missing from your piece.


I hope the above subjective observations are helpful and not hurtful.

[petal]

Hi Milu!

And thanks a lot!

Your reply is very helpful and thorough indeed - Not hurtful at all, but exactly the kind of answer I hoped for!
I knew that the piece missed the "wild beast"-side of driving a Porsche. But it was nice to hear the beast described by a real Porsche-enthusiast.
The things I tried to focus on in this track, was pleasure and comfort - Now I'm pretty sure that the next piece needs a lot more energy.

I'm not a carenthusiast nor a sporting driver, I'm just a poor student with an interest in electronic music, and I found the project interesting: recording the sounds of a Porsche 911, and using them for making a piece of music using only the sounds I recorded.
In order to get the proper amount of theory in the project, I had to give the project the marketing-angle.
The Course I'm taking is focused on "Electronic Listening Music", so the music will have to be in the electronic genre somehow - Rock- and pop-music is not an option in this project, as I have to illustrate my knowhow with the software and effect-techniques that is the main focus of ELM and this course.

But all this doesn't excuse that the first try at making music that correlates with the feelings a Porsche evokes, misses some of the fundamental pleasures of driving a Porsche - I will have to do better, and I'm sure your reply will help me achieve that. Therefore, once again: Thank you very much for your time and your constructive reply!

Cheers!
Thomas

[pwd72s]

watch the opening scenes of the movie "Lemans"...that is exactly how a street Porsche is supposed to sound!

[SilverPoly]

I'm going to go rent LeMans again right now!

Love that movie.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by Milu

Think of the joy of driving a fast car well, at high speed on a twisty mountain road. Feeling alive, awake and indestructable, with no traffic in the early morning after having had a good meal, good wine, twenty year old malt whisky and perhaps barely sober enough to drive. Two tipsy, laughing female passengers both sitting in the front seat. Certainly not legal, certainly dangerous. And certainly memorable fun.

Looks like Milu's weekend has started a bit early. AGAIN!

[id10t]

Check out the sound of a 4 cam 356 - there is something funky with the mp3, but the basic sound there is incredible. www.a57356.com/sounds/9-3.mp3

Personally, I like the sound of my '65 C 1600 engine on a nice 60 degree morning with some moisture in the air, revving up to 5000 rpms thru the gears.

[Isabo]

I've listened to your piece with Milu and I pretty much agree with what he wrote above. I would add that it is a bit like trying to describe colour to a blindman, especially as it is not your interest. You are missing passion, love and lust. A Porsche 911, driven gently on a Sunday morning is like making love slowly and gently with your long time companion. Driven in anger it is pure, raw and very satisfying sex.
Note well that the porschephiles frequenting this board may not be the buyers Porsche would market too.
Expanding on what Milu wrote above; identify WHO your piece is aimed at, and for WHICH model. Then figure out how to stir the emotions.
-Isa

[pwd72s]

"4.0) I am alive and there is a meaning to life

Think of the joy of driving a fast car well, at high speed on a twisty mountain road. Feeling alive, awake and indestructable, with no traffic in the early morning after having had a good meal, good wine, twenty year old malt whisky and perhaps barely sober enough to drive. Two tipsy, laughing female passengers both sitting in the front seat. Certainly not legal, certainly dangerous. And certainly memorable fun." -Milu


Think of the year 1969...you are a country bumpkin from Orygun. You have a new 912, and you'd promised to pick up a buddy whenever/wherever he got out of the army. You're 25. You don't understand the geography of the SF bay area. You are white. Your new 912 is white. You'd contracted a couple of white, and "blonde" hookers. The three of you are driving to your buddy's discharge station at 2:00 AM on a Sunday morning. Along the way, it begins to dawn on you where "Oakland Army Terminal" really is! There are no cop cars about...because the cops are smart enough to avoid that area after dark. You begin to run every red light. Not because you're a badass, because you're too scared to stop. You make it to the terminal, spot your buddy, and say: "Hi Tony, ready to rejoin the civilian life?" He responds. "HELL YES!", and jumps in the 912...now 4 people strong, we leave Oakland the same way I entered, running the lights....hurrying back to a San Francisco hotel.

"I am alive, and there is a meaning to life"...I think Tony understood it better than I did then...he'd just returned from hell. The poor guys being shipped out? They still had things to learn...if they survived the experience.

[petal]

Hi all!

And once again, thanks a lot for your enthusiastic help – it is much appreciated!

Milu:
Funny you should mention Brian Eno, he’s one of my great musical heros – I guess he’s influence on my music is hard to escape…. Which also might be why you find the music bland?

You mention Rolling Stones and Ian Dury as places to look in order to capture the right feeling from driving a Porsche mediated through music – pwd72s tells us a great and captivating story from real life, which is also from the late ‘60s. Is this a coincidence or is it because you think that the spirit of the time capture the feeling you combine with driving a Porsche?

Pwd72s:
Thanks for that great story of yours, I think it will serve me well in order to find the right feeling for the new version of the track – If I can achieve it, I don’t know, but your story made sense to me and gave me something to aim for.

I’ll try to get my hands on a copy of “Le Mans”…

Isabo:
“Explaining colors to a blind man….” – Well, to stay in the metaphor, I don’t think I’m completely blind when it comes to Porsches and drivingpleasure – I’ve spent enough time driving cars just for the pleasure of it, but unfortunately not any real cars for feinsmeckers, but I still hope to get my hands on a real car build for a lifestyle.

“Having great sex…..” – I think I’ll try to incorporate that into the new track somehow, without making it vulgar.

The sounds I’ve recorded, are from a 911 from the early ‘80s
The targetgroup, well Milu mentioned something about Porsche been trying to change their image for the last few years. My guess is that I’ll better aim it at new potential owners of a Porsche – people who down own a Porsche but would like to.

Hmm – to sum it all up, it sounds like driving a Porsche is a true and pure heathenish pleasure worth exploring – I’ll see what I can do to compose a true aphrodisiac that will drive people to want a Porsche and hopefully suit your vehicles as well.

Cheers!
Thomas J

[Milu]

Hi Petal,

The 911s I currently own were cars of their time (80s) and very different to own, use and drive compared to current offerings which are perhaps faster, more comfortable but fat and less "alive". The 911 is a car that comes from the sixties but I think they are all "timeless". Strangely enough I also feel the Stones are "timeless". I don't think there was a particular "spirit of the times" except perhaps that I was younger and I interpreted my perceptions accordingly.

Bottom line: I still get the same thrill driving a fast car quickly that I did 30 years ago.

Isabo asked me to say: don't wait like she did, get the 911 now and either get it out of your system quickly and once and for all or get really hooked and start a life long affair with them like we did.

Both of us are looking forward to hearing your new/revised works.
Please post them when they're done. If you post them on this thread we will get an e-mail notification.

Milu & Isa

[petal]

Hi Milu & Isa

Sorry for not responding, but I've been working long hours the last few days.

Off course I'll post the result when it is finished.

I think I'll have to wait a little longer before I can afford my own Porsche... All though having my own Porsche sounds tempting.

Milu, you mentioned something about Porsche trying to change their image. How do you know this? Do you know where I can find information about what kind of image they are trying to build for them selves?
I'm asking, cause I want to change my main targetgroup-focus a little, and try to make it more directed at potential owners of a Porsche in the next few years. In order to justify this change in focus, I need information about Porsche's main targetgroup (as you mentioned earlier), and especially what kind of image they are trying to create. It want help to write Porsche, cause they don't share that kind of information by principle (I asked about their opinion about the track....)
Also your estamation of the typical Porsche-owner would be interesting - but the most important thing for me right now, would be information about the imagechange of Porsche.

Cheers!
Thomas

[Milu]

Porsche invested a lot of money in trying to lose their "yuppy" image. This began with profiling current owners and sending information packs to the press, showing the results of their studies: i.e. that the typical owner was a fortyish and responsible small business owner or professional and not a twentyish wide boy whizzkid with a bonus to spend. My source for this is simply the cynical articles that were appearing in some of the publications and club magazines at the time.

If Porsche themselves have not been helpful you could try contacting advertising agencies and the automotive press, as well as some of the Porsche Clubs, although these have been acting as Porsche subsidiaries of late. An intense internet search may also yield some results.

It may also be worthwhile getting in touch with the marketing staff of your nearest business school for some references on automotive marketing and buyer profiling for you to follow up on. It is a very long time since I studied anything related but in my day a large part of automotive advertising was actually aimed at those who had JUST purchased the car to reassure them they had made the right decision!

The following is my subjective and cynical view. Not every poster, porschephile or owner or Porsche themselves, may agree.

My remark about Porsche trying to change their current image is simply me being cynical. Like some others on this board I feel bitter and betrayed by much of the current product line and their catering to the SUV market instead of the enthusiast market. However, let us not forget that the prime objective of any business is to make a profit. Porsche has left motorsport, at least for the time being, is trying to appeal to the wider luxury market and consequently has diluted its product to be more acceptable and I feel as a consequence has also diluted the brand. In the light of this I feel they are again trying to change their image. More BMW and AudiVW than Ferrari and TVR.

Typically Porsche was a specialist sportscar for the enthusiast market with a bias towards competition. High quality product with great engineering. Very strong presence in motorsport. The cars were I think mostly purchased by serious drivers, competition types and those that at the very least aspired to the sporting aspects plus those that appreciated the engineering. This was diluted over the years. Obviously there have always been buyers who bought for the status symbol it offered.

To define how I see the current buyers first let me state how I see the cars:

Current production offers the Boxster which has the potential to be a great sportscar but which I believe is being held back in order to not steal market share from the more profitable 996.
The 996 range offers some sporting cars such as the GT3, but I cannot think of the bread and butter 996s as anything except fat luxury gts! Then we have the Cayenne, the fastest 4wd truck in the world.

So who buys or aspires to a Porsche today:
The entry level Boxster: Marginal owners, those that can only just manage the cost of a new Porsche. Young professionals. Status symbol buyers. Small number of enthusiasts.
The 996. Affluent new car buyers/business buyers - basically same profile as Mercedes or BMW buyers. GT3 buyers are likely to be trackday enthusiasts, these would be the closest to traditional Porsche buyers.
The Cayenne, at the moment I would guess status buyers who want to be the first in their street with the new, hard to get, model. In the future, I don't know.

My advice would be to aim your piece at an affluent, successful professional. A luxury car buyer who wants a little more status than a top range BMW and likes the sporting overtones that the Porsche name still carries. For the distaff: 30ish, independent, successful, looking for exclusivity, quality and status. I think that today the new buyer is indifferent to the engineering under the skin. The piece should thus personify: performance, style, luxury and success. Freedom and escape.

Hope the above helped.

[pwd72s]

Milu, I think you nailed the "target audience" for Porsche today. You speak the truth, yet it saddens me...

[Isabo]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Milu, I think you nailed the "target audience" for Porsche today. You speak the truth, yet it saddens me...

The world moves on, but it feels as if one of the corner stones of one's world has been shot to pieces!

Thomas:
Milu is being politically correct (he must be ill! it's not like him). For the lady buyers add: hard, arrogant under her perfect make-up and hair-do, competing successfully in a man's world and wants the whole world to know it, potential maneater, buys for label not quality. Get the picture?
I, of course, am none of these things being a small, delicate flower and traditional enthusiast, using her ratty 911 for pleasure rides and informal competition. You would really have to twist my arm to make me accept a GT3

[petal]

Wow Milu!

Once again thanks for the great feedback - And Isabo too!

Perhaps I should explain why I wanted to change the fucus of my main target gruoup. I am not a muscian by trade. I've got a BA in Philosphy and am now studying to become a candidate in IT, which is 2 years more at the university with studies in computer science from a humanistic angle. The scope of the course I am following, is to learn about the history of Electronic Listening Music and the basics about digital sound effects.
Now, the reason why I was interested in changing the focus of the target group, was that I had to face the fact, that my musical preferences are mainly within modern electronic listening music, and it would therefore be difficult for me to compose music that would appeal to people who are 40+ of age unless they had a particular interest in this kind of music.

Allthough your definition of the new image that Porsche is trying to make, isn't exactly what I was hoping for, it does help me getting a better understanding of, what I should try to aim at - Thank you for that!

Now, Isabu's definition of the lady buyers leaves more room for me to experiment in with the next piece and makes me believe that their still might be room for a more modern approach on this project.

Thanks for your help. I'll be back when I have something for you to listen to.

Cheers!
Thomas

[Sonic dB]

petal...interesting project. Im a musician (jazz/rock guitar, vocals) and since Ive owned my Porsche for the past month, Ive really been relating the air cooled engine to many musical sounds. Depending on the RPMs, my Porsches engine hits certain musical pitches. Sometimes Ive tried to match them to the key of the song on the radio... much to the chagrin of the fellow commuters on the road.

The air cooled engine is a mixture of whistle, howl with a grumbling bass underneath it. No other car Ive ever driven has this much personality in sound.

Interestingly enough, my neighbor has an 88 Porsche 911 and his car sounds a bit different than mine, yet still along the same tonal qualities...his is a different instrument... like comparing a Les Paul to a Stratocaster...both are guitars, both make their own distinct sounds. In the case of his car and mine, its more like two different Strats on different pickup settings.

1. Name the (3-10) sounds from your Porsche you first think of, when you think about your Porsche.

* the Chunk of the door closing...the "bleeeet" of the buzzer when I put my key in that sounds like its gonna die...the powerful sound when I turn the key...the sound of the air cooled engine warming up... and the sounds which I spoke of above.

2. Name the 3 sounds from your Porsche you think are the most beautiful, and please specify why?

* The engine when its warmed up. The mixture of howl and rumble that you hear when driving through an enclosed parking garage...the echos really make it stand out.

3. How would you describe your Porsche in only 5 words?

Unique. Muscular. Handsome. Stylish. Quick.

4. What feelings does driving a Porsche evoke inside of you?

Its just a feeling that you are driving a car that was meant to be driven. You can "feel" everything that you do...steering, shifting, accelerating, the ride...

Interestingly enough, its not a rough ride... yet you are so close to the road... you feel like you are in more control of the car than you would in other more luxurious cars that have no real "feel" to them.

1. Did it sound like you expected?
- If no – Why not? (and if possible, what did you expect? )
- If yes – What do you think made it sound like you expected?

* It was cool, but not enough Porsche. You really need to get that howl and rumble in there... make it sophisticated too.

2. Did you start to loose interest before the track was finished? – If yes when and why?

* No. The tonality of your synth was actually pretty cool because it does go along with the sounds of the Porsche engine... It has a refined sense of style that says Porsche. Need more Porsche engine though.


3. Were there any sounds in this track you particularly liked or disliked and why?

* The tick-tock was a little bit high in the mix...but not too bad.

4. What do you think could be done different in this piece of music, to make it better catch the essence of Porsche?

* Using woodwind sounds is perfect for the Porsche for obvious reasons. I think some bass and percussion would be appropriate.

[petal]

Hey Sonic DB

Thanks for your great feedback!

You point out a few new interesting things about the Porsche-sound that are very useful to me, and support my main conclusion of this survey so far: I need to focus on the sound of the engine running! – Which I am in the new piece…Oh I can’t wait to show you the intro
I have had a few problems fitting the sound of the engine in the new song in an interesting way though – But those elements of the enginesound you point out, gave me a few new ideas to try out. Thank you for that!

One last thing – No synths were used! All sounds originate from the Porsche itself – This was one of the main objectives in this project. The bass and the melodyline are the same sample of the engine running, but bandpassed at around 80 hz and heavily compressed. I have enveloped the bass-sound to give it it’s ”bass”-character. The melody is the processed enginesound pitched up.
The bassdrum is the door slamming but enveloped to make it sound more like a bassdrum etc.

But once again – thanks a lot for your help!

Cheers!
Thomas J

[Sonic dB]

Petal... you mean to tell me that the melody line is played by a Porsche? How cool.

It sounds like an old 70s Rhodes electric piano...or synth approximity of.

Cool. Sounds like some soundtrack from an old 70s movie. They could have used this in Le Mans.

[petal]

Hi all

First I would like to thank you all for your contributions to this assignment of mine – It has been of great help while composing the second track and writing the assignment!

I have now handed in the assignment and is about to prepare myself for the defense in a week from now – I would therefore like to hear your opinion on my second attempt at capturing the spirit of Porsche.

I decided to make my main focus the engine, as it seems like this is something everybody expects to hear in a track like this. And I aimed at a commercial-like tune instead of a whole song.
Now the intro is working fine I think, but when the engine starts, that’s when I wasn’t able to get any further with the material I had available – So what you hear is only to illustrate the idea, and not how I wanted it to sound if I had better recordings of the engine running. I needed good recordings of the car driving fast and changing gear and such. But I didn’t have them, and there wasn’t time and opportunity to make new and better recordings – therefore the engine-composition ended up a bit cheesy, but I think I could make it work with the right recordings.

Nevertheless, I hope you like this one better than the first, and I would like to hear your opinions on this one, and hopefully you think that I am more on the right track with the Ideas presented in the:

www.itu.dk/~petal/porsche/Ghost in the Machine.mp3 (3 MB)

The questions for this one are:

1. Does this attempt capture some of the feelings you associate with the Porsche?
2. Does it capture some of the sounds you expected to hear?
3. Do you think these Ideas work or do I have to find a different approach?



Cheers!
Thomas