Crap! Reorg!
 

This has been coming for weeks. Today my company's reorg hit my office and my group. Good people with families were let go. I feel sick and angry. There has got to be another way to live so that we don't depend on these souless people and companies for our livelyhood. I know, become self employed etc. Most people have been led to believe that we should strive to get a good job, work hard, retire. That's BS. That's what their grandfathers and fathers did. Not anymore.

There's no such thing as a secure job.
Sorry folks. I'm pissed and I knew this BBS was a safe place to vent.

Troy

I'm note sure you're safe here - in a few minutes, some Big Business apologists will chime in to tell you that you have no rights to a job or to make a living.

Yeah this whole business/layoff/reorg thing is something we've never seen before. :rolleyes:

Troy, you mention it's been "coming for weeks". Hopefully that was enough time to organize your resume and hit up some contacts? What industry are you in?

There is an alternative, of course. I'm in the Navy, with job security that just won't quit. Of course, I go to sea on submarines for a living, totally isolated from the outside world (ie family, loved ones, etc.) for months on end. It's posts like yours that really make me want to stay, 'coz job security really is pretty important. Thanks for sharing, and sorry to hear about your friends.


Dan

My business is adhesive resins. I'm a technical manager and a chemist by education and training. Basically my functions is to take the technology from the R&D group, do applications studies and if they're promising, offer the technology to customers. I am usually involved in the plant trials helping to ensure the trial is successful.

I have hit up a couple of contacts. Trouble is, how secure is a new job. Not!

Supposedly the cuts are done. I'm not going to allow myself to become complacent though. My wife and I need to keep pushing to develop multiple streams of income until we are independant of one employer.

Thanks guys.
Troy

Troy,

Sorry to hear the bad news.

During my 24 year career in IT I have learned one thing...."the only thing to count on is change".

Unlike our parents there are very few places that offer a one-stop career opportunity.

I have weathered many, many layoffs, resizings, reorgs, right-sizing, etc. One time it got me layed off. No hard feelings from me (for the most part). It's part of business. While many organizations chop for investor profit many do it for the sake of survival and/or being competitive. Additionally, I've seen layoffs by the largest Giants where associates thought they were untouchable (ATT sound familiar?). Then I've seen people working for much smaller, family owned (less "secure"?) businesses for 25 years.

I look at it his way, If I own a business and I need to change direction or simply can't afford the staff I'd have to make some tough decisions. This includes laying people off.

That said, I wish you the best of luck and start networking your butt off now. If you need tips I'll be happy to share.

Smart! This is the approach my wife and I took.

I learned quickly, as a week into my first professional job I saw exactly what you described.. . .a whole bunch of people who thought they were in a safe, big company job, were looking like deer in the headlights.

Troy,

They say they are done?

Have they make significant changes on how they conduct their business or just lop off some heads, and ask the survivors to pick up the load?

If it is the latter, they may have given themselves some breathing room but the cause of the need to layoff has not been exorcised.

I find it odd that corporate management has convinced themselves that you can "Save your way to propserity". In a captial intensive business, you need to spread the cost of capital equipment over many units. If you are selling less units, reducing the variable cost of labor, does not (on a 1 for 1 basis) improve profit margins (it actually lessens them) or total profitability.

I suspect they read the old (60's) MacKinzie report that says you can chop off 15% of your staff with no impact to your company (since they were doing unecessary work anyway) and enjoy the savings. Since this is a great plan, the Corp MBA's figure you can do this over and over again. Unfortunately, I do not think any of these fellows has every trimmed a steak and dicovered that after you trim all the fat, you are cutting meat and your steak suffers. In addition, if you remove all of the fat from your steak, the taste suffers.

Best of luck. Remember, you are the only one who watches out for #1.

We just had one a few weeks ago. Im a IT guy working for a non technology company so I feel like a gopher on a rifle range everyday :)

I hope none of you think this is a recent phenomenon. Hell I remember losing my job in an aluminum foundry in 1982 when they found cheaper labor in Arkansas! Troy it truly sucks to be let go, but I am not sure from your post if you were let go or just some of those around you. But keep in mind that it goes both ways. Remember in the 90's when people were changing jobs every few months just because they found another job that paid more? Job loyalty for both sides disappeared in the 90's.

thanks guys,
Let my clarify. I survived the cuts. But yes Harry, I think they expect the remaining folks to pick up the load. Truth be told, my boss doesn't even know what the new organization looks like.

Hi Rick,
I understand and agree with your statements. Adhesives used to enjoy a specialty chemical status but that has been largely replaced by a commodity status. Due to this change, prices have been driven down. My company was/is unique in that a lot of great technical sevice comes (came) with the price of the resin. Our current customers decided that the little bit extra our resin cost was worth it due to all of the technical help they received along with it. This is our (my group's) fear; the current customers we have chose us due to the package we provide. Now, are we going to abandon that philosophy of service and try to go head-to-head with our competetion? If so, we will see our adhesive volumes drop due to the fact that a) we aren't providing the service to justify our premium and b) our cometition is four to five times larger than we are and therefore enjoy better buying power of raw materials and can offer lower prices. Its a spiral of declining volumes causing more cost savings to prop up returns, etc.

As Island and others agree, I need to continue to build those multiple streams of income. Maybe we need to start a new thread called "your multiple streams of income".

Thanks guys. I'm feeling my hope return.
Troy

Hate to tell you... but a reorg without a plan in place ... the chain saw is just being warmed up.

While you are ok for now, i would start my networking both inside and outside the company to see if there is a better place for you to be.

(If you want to see a ship slowly sink, look in the "Statesman Journal" archives for the history of Siltec--> Mitsibishi Silicon --> Sumco for a worst case outcome. A more sucessful story can be found in the history of Tektronics but watch how it changed)

Troy, I'm glad to hear you're still there.

Funny enough, at the one place I was layed off from we built very complex websites. One of our potential customers was an adhesives guy. He wanted the science of selecting the proper adhesive to be automated and webafied. Was a pretty cool idea.

I hear you Harry. I have networked within the panelboard industry and have a standing offer with a pretty large company. Just don't want to move if I don't have to. I will continue to work on having something else in place before the other shoe falls. Also, I want to put my energy into obtaining independance and use the fear of job loss as motivation.

Rick, sounds like a good idea. Trouble is, the typical old plant in the West is so poorly controlled and the raw material (wood) so variable in quality and species that what works one month may be suspect the next. I don't know, maybe the wave of the future is what they do in Europe, a resin kitchen on site that takes basic raw "resin" and modifies it to the mill.

Anyway, wood products continue to contract in the US. It is not a good industry to count on anyway. China, Chile, NZ, etc can put a superior quality panel into Portland for less than a local plant can produce an inferior panel. That's a different story.

Thanks for your support and conversation guys. It really has made things feel less nasty.

Troy

After fighting today with multiple people on multiple fronts, I started thinking "screw this, I'll start my own production company up north." Don't know that I have the guts to do it, but there always are other options if you're willing to learn something new and take a risk. When I gave notice leaving my faculty position (giving them 6 months notice) I had no job to go to. I beat the bushes pretty hard, and got my foot in the door in a new field, then went up from there.

I'm in IT, 3 years ago I was laid off from Sprint's network consulting division, then I went to another company that did batches of lay-offs for the 2 years that I was there, fortunately I left that one voluntarily recently, hopefully that means someone else there will keep their job.

The worst part is that the jobs that the last company were removing were lost to India, Mexico, Costa Rica, Manilla... Fortunately the support from these locations was suffering for several different reasons, so Cisco has begun rethinking this move.

If things keep going the way they are anything that can be done over a phone will be done from outside this country where it's much cheaper. Fortunately I've moved on to something that requires physical proximity.

Not only that, but these days, in IT, at least, to get decent raises you usually need to change companies, but at the same time companies want people who don't move around much.

Things are just not what they used to be.

Troy,

Good plan.

I hear you about moving. This is just too nice of a place to leave.

Some small companies are more sensitive to layoffs. Some of the big boys will fire thousands just to keep the stock price up. Heartless.

There was a Westinghouse factory in southern California that made a profit every single year since 1952. In 2001 they fired everyone and moved the plant to Mexico in search of even higher profit margins. How do these CEOs sleep at night?

zolpidem and alprazolam...works for me.

My Daddy was an Aerospace Engineer (Chemical, Mechanical)...who worked for a number of Aerospace companies starting in the 1950's. Whenever a contract was completed the companies would lay off the entire engineering staff...who than had to find other jobs within the industry. Once an engineer hit 45 or so he would find it increasingly difficult to find new employment in the field. You can hire a new college grad for less money. Remember tis is the 1950's and early 1960's. So whats new boyz????

Finally Daddy went to work for the US Navy as a civilian engineer when he was 52. He was hired in as a GS-13. He mainly did that to creat a retirement for himself.

My Daddy always said if you have substantial money in the bank, it makes it alot easier to go to work and pick up the stick when the boss tells U to... The way Daddy got his money was by SAVING it, and investing it.

I personally owe no company any loyalty as an employee, the only time I would feel loyal to a company is if on the day I died they wouyld lower the flag to half mast and give a day off with pay to the employees for my funeral....I have always felt that when I went to work I was there working for MYSELF and not the company. It is up to me to chose what I do with the money I made as an employee...they don't force you to buy that SUV. So I say live behind the curve and invest the rest.....

BTW: I/ my family never lived high on the hog.....I remember once my Daddy took me out to dinner...he has never forgiven me for ordering a $7.00 Desert. He always throws that in my face...I had to tell him I learned how to make that desert in order to shut him up...will that old sob ever give me a break?

Reminds me of a classic; "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son of a b!tch."

I got laid off twice last year. Right now I'm working @ HP. The nice thing about HP is they only do layoffs on the days that end in 'Y"

I landed my first programming job @ 15. Except for about 6 years of working for the US Forest Service and then CDF, I've been doing IT ever since then.

I don't see myself doing IT 10 years from now. Maybe not even 5. This stuff is too easy to offshore. Don't know what I'm going to do next, but I spend a little time each day thinking about it.

Even for the positions that will stay, I'm seeing companies laying off people and then re-filling the position, just getting someone cheaper. The most cruel examples I've seen are where the company hired the same person back into the same job, just for less pay. IMHO, these guys were idiots for going back, but they hadn't found anything else out there.

The overall trend - irrespective of what you're told about the 'recovery' - is immense downward pressure on white-collar wages.

Being under the layoff sword is really tough. My company has done multiple rounds of layoffs in the last few years and I've had my share of sleepless nights. My rule is to have many months of living expenses in the bank - a year if at all possible, even more. It sounds crazy or impossible, but here in the SF Bay Area I've known too many people who were laid off and then searched for months, even years, for work. I don't think the economy is out of the woods, certainly not down at the level of the individual worker, and I think loyalty to employees is very minimal at many companies. Take a guy who's worked at the company for 5 years and send him packing with 5 minutes' notice and three weeks' severance? I saw that done just a few weeks ago. Good luck, do a lot of networking even if you don't feel you "need to", and take every possible precaution.

Oooohhhhh -ouch! THat is so brutally true.

hmmm, I see it as immense pressure to build new business. After all "business" owes all those people high paying jobs. . . .right? ;)

Take it from someone who has BTDT (several times), it is not pretty being on the handle end of the axe either.

For almost 15 years I have worked for (and now run) a family-controlled software business. It is a tiny niche firm that has varied from 2 people to 29 over the years.

But we have survived, and over that time a number of people (and their families) have had 5-10-15 years of gainful employment.

Many, many smallish companies caught in a down-cycle, or a specific large transaction going sour, will easily collapse inwards when financial pressure gets too great. Total liquidation on behalf of creditors (chapter 7), in other words...

We "choose" to not let it get that far -- which takes forward cash flow planning/visibility and also unfortunately does require "variable expenses" to be varied downwards once in a while.

I am always truly sorry to hear when hard-working, competent folks lose their jobs suddenly. But it is a tough world out there and if it comes down to feeding my family or somebody else's...it is basic instinct.

As for seeking "job security" in self-employment...ROFLMAO! Before cutting pay, benefits, or headcounts in bad times I and the other top earners have always gone to 0 - 50% pay while still working more than fulltime. Some have even "loaned" the company money. And with no guarantees... Such is the life of an entrepeneur; the rewards far outweigh the risks for many of us, otherwise we would all work for Walmart or GE by now.

Chris,
Thanks for the comments. I know what you are saying is true but,
I believe there is more control when self employed. The types of businesses that my wife and I are pursuing don't require either one of us to show up everyday. Let's hope that gradually over the next few years our dependance on my current employer begins to shrink until that time when this paycheck is not required to run the household. Simple dream.

Troy

Did someone say self-employment provided more "job security"? I must have missed it.

One thing is for certain, if one does decide to go the self-employment route, your visiblity of whats coming down the track goes way up.

Hmmm, Now what was that saying? . . .something about "knowledge & power". . .hmmm. ;)

Troy, your resin skills may be useful at ODOT...I'm serious here. Despite the press hype about government crisis and "cuts", Government jobs tend to be secure, and the bennies are tremendous. If job security is paramount to you, that may be an area worth researching...
BTW...I tried to send this via PM...your box is full.

Paul,

To amplify what you are saying, that is part of why I am happy to be at the Air Base now. Add to it, a very interesting job and the ability to make a difference, plenty cool.

Who promised all U guys anything anyway? U think your lives aren't going to be without struggle without hardship. Guess again, I personally think U boyz have bin watching too much TV, and have bought into the myth that your all supposed to have it made and live on easy street. I think U all have forgotten to listen to Grandpa or maybe even Great Grand Pa by now.

I will also vouch for "government" jobs. After being laid off from aerospace projects four times in three years to "cutbacks" in the late 70s, I got my Master's and went to work for government for 20 years, doing financial planning/real estate on the side. Retired early, moved to the nice warm Southwest and never looked back. Have a modest pension, still do financial planning on the side and stay busy.

Many companies now have changed their retirement plans from a "defined benefit" system ( so many dollars for every year of service based on final average salary) to a "defined contribution" system which, in boom times can be quite nice but is sensitive to the market. One could have accumulated a healthy amount but along comes a year 2000 turndown and a considerable amount of capital is lost and retirement becomes an iffy affair due to the loss of interest/dividend income. And, the tax ramifications of trying to remove the bulk of the money to a "safer" shelter outside the "plan" makes it nearly impossible.

Diversify your investments. The younger you are the more chances you can take. But, if the "plan" has a low risk option, even though it may have low return as well, part of your account should be in this option, increaasing the percentage the closer you get to getting that gold plated watch (do they still do that?)

So there are two types of individuals, (actually it is a sliding scale) from extreme risk takers to those for whom security is paramount. See where you fit on this scale and act accordingly.

One last thing. Start your investments early. Compound interest works wonders. A difference of ten years (starting at 35 vs 45 for example) can result, by age 65, in the low six figure range, aven accounting for modest regular contributions.

California Dreaming
 

It all just makes me want to cry like a btch...gone is the house in CA, gone is the RR, gone is the 66 Big Block Corvette with matching numbers....now all I have left is this defective trailer here in Gawdless Las Vegas, where they will heartlessly suck U dry....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083097623.jpg

Mother and Daddy I wana come home...pleaze pleaze turn my nightmares into a dream....

Thanks Paul. I'm sorry my PM was full. Don't know why because it looked empty to me!
I guess I hadn't thought about gov't jobs. I may have to think about them now that you mentioned it.

Harry, I may have to pick your brain a bit about what your doing exactly.

Tabs, I certainly have never seen easy street.

Bob, Thanks for the comments. Like I said to Paul above; maybe I need to look at gov't. Some friends have been stable for years working for local and state gov't. I'll log on and see what's going on.

As far as investing; we are doing so and started in our twenties. We also are buying homes in the area (have three so far including our residence). We just need to keep pushing and act like the current gig will last only six month because it may certainly be that way.

Thanks everyone (even Tabs) for chiming in on this. I am actually fairly confident that things happen for a reason and this kind of thing doesn't take the wind out of my sails for long. Its quite motivational. Plus, I am still employed!

Troy

JTO:

Just a word of warning. Working for Government can be (sometimes) rather stiltifying. I did intruduce lots of changes over the years (old engineering habits don't die), but the opposition was staggering. For me, I viewed that as a challenge. Elected officials come and go; be patient and keep making your points. With elected types, let them think it was their idea all the time. Egos are strong in most of them. It isn't as important who gets the credit as it is that the damn job gets done!!

Bob

Troy, you may have cleaned out your received items, but not the sent items...I made the same mistake, couldn't figure it out...

The last assignment my Daddy had working for the DOD (Army) was working as a Materials Engineer on the Stinger Missile. Of all ythe services he worked for, on various assignments he liked the Navy the best. They would send him to seminars and various other field trips. He felt the Army personnel were just plain stupid, and the Air Force was cheap.

Anyway I have digressed....What Daddy primarily did everyday was figure out how much money he was making everyday on his investments. He would figure out the total he made for each account on a daily, weekly monthly and yearly basis..and the percentage he was receiving. Now thats government work for U.

Now my Cousins wife got a really nice retirement from the Teamsters Union...She collects a pension from the Local and from the International. Plus she got a nice severance check from them in 6 figures. Her last boss was an attorney for the Union by the name of Buffalino and she went to work for him because her first boss went to jail...his name was Hoffa...Now thats what I call gratitude for service to an organization.