Just for the balanced view, research does indicate that SUV fatalities are on the increase, while mid-sized passenger cars are declining.

What we need is driver education for all drivers, whether you're a hypocrital weekend Porsche road warrior doing canyon carving or a SUV driving soccer mum.

No doubt about it too, LA is overrun with SUV's. Amazingly so!

Then again, if i bought a PT Crusier you guys would find something to complain about that too. Can't win.

Oh, this is getting interesting now. . .

Incidentally, it's spelled "H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E", as in with an "E" and it actually doesn't apply to me. "Hypocricy" is the act of contradicting one's self. I fail to see how this applies to me. I happen to own a Porsche, yes - but as you yourself acknowledge, my preferred method of transportation (other than walking) is a motorcycle. Why don't you try getting yourself an education and then post here; as it stands, your obviously lacking education comes through in a rather distracting fashion, both in the material content / position taken in your posts and your ineptitude in communicating it effectively. The latter is lacking both in terms of spelling and sentence structure, reinforcing the reader's impression. I'm actually doing you a favor by commenting on this, so the overly defensive reaction I'm sure I'll get from you as a response is both inappropriate and unwarranted. *sigh*

What's rather amusing about your posts is observing how you get sooooooo defensive and pissed off at me for simply commenting on and exposing the overt stupidity and ostentatiousness of the vast number of SUVs out there; your feeble attempt to be the knight in shining armor coming to the defense of the poor threatened and ill-maligned SUV owner being persecuted and exposed simply by trying to get a rise out of me is titillating at best. To make it downright laughable, you purport to defend SUVs, then bash ME for being economical and preferring to ride a motorcycle. Oh, that's rich! So which way is it going to be there Mr. SUV-loving, highly-educated spelling-bee champ?

And by the way, I actually AM vegetarian (have been for 14+ years) and I DO happen to enjoy bicycling (since you brought it up. . .) I actually rode about 10 miles on the mountain bike today. When's the last time YOU rode a bike? On the subject of public transportation, I happened to WALK to dinner last night (about 2 miles) and catch the bus home - no B.S. either. When's the last time YOU took public transportation? Now who's the hypocrit-"E"? Again, I'm simply responding to obviously unfounded, unresearched, and obviously ignorant accusations and your questions of "why don't you go ride a bike", and "why don't you use public transportation", both of which I happen to do. Frequently. That's about the only substantive thing I derived from your posts. Curious.

If you can put aside your defensiveness for a moment and read what is being presented as my position: the key here is MITIGATION not ELIMINATION (not that I expect you to understand this). People DO produce waste, people DO consume products and have impacts on the environment around them - some for the better and some for the worse. However, one can HARDLY justify a so-called "Sport Utility Vehicle", particularly a so-called "luxury" one, and MOST particularly a luxury SUV that sees NONE of the types of uses it's often touted as being capable of as "justification" for its existence - such as hauling / storage / towing capacity or all-weather capability. Yes, one can make the argument that ANY motorized vehicle is bad for the environment and they'd ultimately be correct in that position. However, we DO live in a mobile society where people drive cars or other motorized transportation as a means of getting around. I accept this. I'm never said that we all need to shun technology and embrace the Unabomber Manifesto, nor did I say that we should just pitch all the cars and walk everywhere - let's be realistic. I never espoused such an extreme position in my initial post, re-read it if you don't believe me.

My point is that some choices are more responsible than others and still others are outright offensive to the common good - such as SUVs. The MOST offensive are those driven for no other purpose than to attempt to compensate for the driver's penile insecurity - as seems to be the case in a vastly disproportionate number of these things. It just irks me that we, as such a supposedly "enlightened" culture still have to engage in these vehicular "pissing contests" and games of one-upsmanship that make us no better than dung-flinging monkeys trying to determine the "alpha male". The SUV and its associated "I'm bigger than you", "I'm a bad-ass", and "I'm soooooo successful - look at me!" mentality tends to drag down the collective dignity and intelligence of the society at large. If anyone out there REALLY can tell me that a luxury SUV has some defensible purpose and serves any sort of legitimate need, I'll gladly concede and shut up. Since I know nobody can, I feel it is my role to speak up on behalf of the more enlightened members of society and tell the self-obsessed SUV-driving community to please stop dragging down the rest of us with their overt idiocy!

great reply.
US car mfg have a profile on the SUV buyer that they're keeping quiet about due to offending them with the insights. I guess the info could be searched out in the shrink mags and newsletters.
Personally I like the PD distraction that SUVs provide.

I'd say this is getting stupid....

Generalizations like you made are completely unnecessary. If all you want to do is editorialize, than feel free but don't try to pass it off as a substantive argument.

You're simply taking the same stance of superiority and egocentrism that you seem to want to brand SUV drivers with. I COULD call you a typical crunchy tree hugging granola sucking liberal, but that accomplishes the same thing that referring to all SUV drivers as *********s. Unless you know them all personally, don't generalize. The extremism that your demonstrating does little more than create more divisivness on an issue. Christ, your starting to sound like an ELF'er.

Propose a solution if you want some change, and no, banning the sale and manufacture of all SUV's isn't reasonable or rational.

And by the way, yes I do drive a Grand Cherokee. And I take it off-road. And I haul equipment and kids around in it. And pull a trailer that carries my Porsche.

ROFLOL, thanks POF. No point making any points herehttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/128.gif
You have ESPOUSED your MANIFESTO with great clarity. ;)

Porsche-O-Phile, you do know expathk is from another country, eh? There are other legitimate spellings for words, as American English isn't the only flavor out there. As far as sentence structure, judging by your first post to this thread, you probably won't be winning any contests, either. However, I imagine the bulging blood vessel(s) on your forehead has undesirable effects on your ability to see clearly (literally and figuratively).

Have any SUV haters tried to apply their argument to Porsches?
jürgen

Typos. If you notice, I don't repeat it.

Bulging blood vessels on MY head? Oh please. This does little other than to amuse me. I just get somewhat irritated at the collective stupidity displayed in the "oh I've just GOT to have my 4-ton SUV" crowd out there because of the inherent stupidity of their position in 99% of the cases. I get irritated because I really do want to believe that we as a society are somewhat better than the traits embodied in the behavioral choices of (1) owning and driving a so-called "luxury SUV" and (2) attempting to rationalize it.

If I've learned one thing in life it's this: Never, EVER underestimate the capacity of the human to rationalize its behavior.

Think about it - people throughout history have been able to find ways to justify some pretty terrible acts in their own minds rather than simply admit they were wrong. Same thing here. Rather than simply saying "yes a luxury SUV is a pretty self-centered purchase and in retrospect I wouldn't do it again", people PREDICTABLY get the hair on the back of their necks standing up and actually try to DEFEND this!!! HAH!!! Such an amusing game: throw a couple of generalizations out there (and valid ones at that) that happen to poke at one's ego and watch the rationalizations come oozing forth! LOL!

And as for being a "typical crunchy tree hugging granola sucking liberal", I'm actually flattered. No offense taken whatsoever. I only wish there were more of us. I'd rather be labeled as such than as a "typical boorish gorilla-like egocentric conservative redneck" any day.

At least liberals THINK.

as seen here
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

1989 Subaru 2wd Wagon 15K miles 45/55% highway city cycle
7 tons of green house gas emissions

2004 Ford Escape 4 cylinder 2 wd same miles ect
7.7 tons of greenhouse gasses.

Looks like todays modern "small" SUV puts out more emissions

Lets look at a larger SUV. I believe the Ford Explorer is the most popular.

2004 Explorer 2wd. 11.4 tons
2004 Cayenne S 12.1 tons
2004 GT3 10.6 tons
2004 CGT 15.3 tons
1985 Audi Quatro 10.3 tons

So it seems the newest cars are the dirtiest. Go figure

Principle 1 of Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is
Don't criticize, condemn or complain.

"Critism is futile because it puts a person on the defensive and usually makes him strive to justify himself."

P-o-P: "...The SUV and its associated "I'm bigger than you", "I'm a bad-ass", and "I'm soooooo successful - look at me!" mentality tends to drag down the collective dignity and intelligence of the society at large. ..."

I think what's underneath this the real motivation for buying a 'big bad' SUV. It's fear.

People are afraid of other drivers, afraid of terrorists; afraid of the unknown.

A 6,000 lb. SUV or pick-em-up is "intimidating" it speaks for a certain segment of society in the same way walking a pit bull does. Maybe in the same way carrying an AK would. It says 'back off.' If people think it's 'antisocial' to drive a large, intimidating truck, that actually plays in favor of the decision to get one for some. The fact that it won't fit in a lot of parking places is just going to have to be 'the other guy's problem.'

Lots of people feel more safe in a huge vehicle. plus they feel they can take more of their 'stuff' with them, which is also reassuring. I met a woman recently who bought a Suburban so she could take her dog with her everywhere in comfot.

Driving a huge vehicle answers some very basic human needs. But then, so would simply shooting everyone who offends you. Civilization requires some compromise.

As other threads here show there are many people who think that they should never have to compromise and should be able to do anything they want.

Well, in a way that's the crux of my point - a civilized society shouldn't need such things. While people DO have the RIGHT to own such vehicles, they also have the right to (with apologies to George Carlin) pour sulfuric acid on their genitals. Allowed to? Sure. Smart? I tend to doubt it. Same here.

You commie pinko bastard, are you now trying to enforce your lefty values on the rest of us by telling us what we should do with our own genetals. ;)

Watch it, he'll complain about your spelling again....


:D :D :D

Strange all the SUV haters on this BBS. Seems there is an equally large segment out there against high performance cars. A 930 bumped to 350 hp raises no eyebrows but a SUV...

Give me a break. Look at my sig to see what we currently drive. Bottom line is the Disco (and my F150) are big, comfortable, offer great vision, and we love driving them. Sure we don't 4x4 at all, but I haul a bunch of stuff in the truck. Yet, I don't need to justify my owning such a rig to anyone, just as you don't need to justify owning a sports car.

This board is littered with hiprocracy. Apart from pure function cars impart a reflection of who we are - or pretend to be. I'll never own a mini-van, even if they get got 100 mpg to my SUVs 2 mpg (more like 10mpg) Not an option. Out and out mini vans just plain S**K! They are engineered for folks who consider vehicles strictly as transportation. How many of you are lining up to trade your 911 for a WRX that can best you in every performance category?

dmoolenaar - My next daily driver may be a WRX depends on what gas prices are doing when I buy and the type of mileage they get.

My 911 can't haul much sits 3 people comfortably for now (my son is 14 months) and is a pig when it comes to gas (15 to 18 mpg). The catch though is I drive less than 5000 miles a year. It is a total weekend toy. My daily driver is a 2000 VW Jetta TDI. It sees 35,000 or so miles a year

Comfortable car with 98% of the bells and whistles. Not as fast as my 911 but very quick (chipped) and best of all it seats 4 (back could use a little more leg room) has a huge trunk and it get 50 mpg

While I despise minivans I would never own a SUV. My wife's Outback can haul everything we need and if it doesn't fit in the car I can tow it on a trailer. That car has AWD (damn good system by the way) and get 28 mpg.

So keep your 10 mpg pigs and when gas prices eek up to $3.00 a gallon I will laugh. My 911 won't see as much action but I won't be getting bent over at the pump on a weekly basis.

All Porsche drivers are insecure, rich pricks who need a luxury sports car to show everyone how "cool" they are.


This blanket statement is as dumb as some of the posts in this thread.

I must be the devil ...see sig. SmileWavy

A WRX can suck gas like a P-car when you get on it. If you stay below 3500 RPM, though, you can get in the mid-to-high 20's on the highway

We passed a Jeep Cherokee--all by its lonesome (and devoid of passengers)--in the process of burning to the ground on the highway yesterday. A fitting exclamation point on the chapter detailing my family's experiences with Chrysler vehicles, and somewhat amusing in light of this thread.

Probably not so funny for the poor sod who owned the thing though...hope nobody was hurt.

Bravo.

You forgot to mention our penis issues....