911ctS, I understand. In fact, if something like this happened to a member of my family, I would be very interested in retribution. I'd be insane, and I'd probably be willing to end that person's life in any way possible. So, the decision to forgive, just like the decision to step out of an airplane at 9000 feet wearing a parachute, is a matter of overcoming every stitch of natural instinct you have. Yes, it's hard. It's also right.

Sure, I agree with that. But not these prisons. The key is to send them to Devil's Island in French Guiana. Much cheaper. Far more effective in bringing closure. In my opinion, this is the only proper way to carry out punishment while at the same time appeasing the no death penalty advocates. The problem today is that the violence in the usual crime has escalated, while at the same time the punishment is at the same levels of five decades ago at best. We need to adjust the punishment to the higher levels that crimes have risen to. Hence, penal colonies with the same "luxurious" appointments as Devil's Island.

Prison should be more like the Chateau Di'if from the Count of Monte Cristo, and less like cheap hotels. I mean, people in prisons have a substantially better life, in many respects, than people on submarines. The food is better, there's cable TV, the uniforms are more comfortable, you get more space for you and your stuff, and you don't generally get raped as much. There's a number of guys who've chosen Navy brigs over submarines.

So life in prison as a deterrent? Less so than I wish it was, especially as someone else mentioned -- "life" isn't usually "life."

Supe -- I love the forgiveness theme. The principle is excellent, and I admire you for sticking to your guns on that one. I even (almost) agree -- forgiveness is honorable, but some transgressions carry consequences that must be paid. If I cheat on my wife and catch a disease, she may forgive me and continue to love me, but I still have the disease to deal with -- that's a consequence that I may have to live with. If I murder my room-mate, his parents may forgive me and continue to love me as a second son. They may mourn at my funeral, after the judge finds me clearly guilty and condemns me.

Forgiveness is great. So is the death penalty.


Dan


PS -- I know I shouldn't write into a thread like this one, 'coz someone's going to disagree, and I won't have time to post again until Saturday sometime, by which time the moderator will have banned me as a troll because I don't reply ... (sigh) Oh, well.

Here is the solution. We need a panel of French, Turkish and Arab experts to review and improve our punishment system over here. I sincerely believe we would see substantial changes in our crime rates. After all, there must be some underlying reason as to why one can leave his wallet atop a parked car in Dubai to later come back and still find it there. I tell you, Chateu Di'if would be perfect for the guy who murdered my brother in law's brother and his partner in an office shooting last month. Here is the way I look at prison. While it is no walk in the park, one can read while in there. As far myself, reading is one of my favorite ways to spend time. It seems that if I were in prison, I would still be able to enjoy that activity without other concerns like paying the mortgage. Again, not exactly a cakewalk, but definitely not quite hell on earth. Certainly not enough to make up for the suffering my brother in law and his family are going through. To forgive is divine, but I am sure the man upstairs is better suited for that endeavour.

As to closure, so called "civilized" life today is quite frustrating. Mainly because of this justice by proxy that we are a part of. And this is why capital punishment is almost useless today. Back in the past, you got a posse together and within a week the perpetrator was hanged. Today one is at the mercy of the "system" to take care of these matters. We are supposed to sit at home with the wholehearted belief that everything will be ok. Right! By the time the punishment is carried out, if at all, it is too late. I am sure some murderers and rapists would feel a whole lot different if the punishment were carried out by the victim's family.