Porsche vs Ferrari; Help me out here guys

[Porschefile]

Let me 1st state that I am a diehard Porsche fanatic for life, and have been so since I was about 5y/o. I am an automotive enthusiast as well, and I still love Ferraris. I've owned a 914, and am hoping to purchase a 951 as well as a 930 or 965 within the next year. I've researched and continue to research every single piece of information I can find about Porsche. I just love the company, the man, it's history, it's cars, the professional racing history, it's inventions.........I could go on forever!

The point of this post is that I would like to bring out as many facts as possible to help support my argument. The argument is that I believe Porsche is overall better than Ferrari as far as production vehicles, professional racing acheivments, etc. My friend believes the opposite, and is a diehard Ferrari fan. I don't look down on Ferrari, but my friend looks down on Porsche. He constantly takes pots shots at Porsche, when around me, and it is getting rather annoying. Ferrari is very advanced as well, and has had much success in it's history but, I just don't think it ultimately stands up to the legendary acheivments of Porsche.

As stated on Porsche's official website, Porsche has had over 23,000 victories in motorsports to this day. I've tried to find some sort of grand total for Ferrari, but have been unsuccessful. From everything I heard, this is far in excess of any other manufacturer's wins in motorsports. The numbers don't lie, yet my friend somehow believes that Ferrari is more successful, most likely because of their success in F1.

From all the research I have done on Porsche, I have come to realize just how underappreciated this company is! I've seen numerous accounts of items made standard, on production Porsches, that were the 1st of their kind on production automobiles. Some examples are passenger side or dual air bags ('87 944 I believe), rear transaxle layout (it appears the 924 was the 1st production car with this), tire pressure monitor (928 GTS I believe), etc etc. I can't even remember half of them at the moment. On top of this, Porsche has always been one of the top pioneers when it comes to exotic materials/parts, improving production vehicle standards and performance, etc. They've invented so many items that are truly state of the art, such as PCCB, PCCC, etc. I haven't seen much of this from Ferrari. Porsche, IMO, has been slipping lately and needs to enter factory cars back into professional racing. Professional motorsports is what the Porsche name was forged through, so they can't just abandon it.

I guess I kind of answered my own question! I mainly wanted to hear other people's opinions and anything anyone else might want to add in regards to Porsche. The argument is 2 sided, and I realize Ferrari has made lots of acheivments as well. I love Ferraris and would like to own many in the future. However, since money is still a consideration for me at the moment, my hard earned dollars are going to go for the best value which is Porsche! I like the no BS approach to Porsches. There is a certain passion involved with Porsches as well IMO, even if others might not believe this. However, their technological and engineering prowess is what they are really about, and what makes them stand out from the crowd IMO.

I apologize for any grammatical mistakes I've made. I've been up about 48hrs and am very tired!

[Sonic dB]

Speaking in general terms...Porsches are legendary for their performance and durability... Ferraris are famous for their performance, styling and glam factor.

This isnt to say that Porsches arent beautiful, because they certainly are...

Both marques are fantastic. Both build fantastic cars. However Ferraris aren't faster than Porsches (people always think so?) and they aren't as robust as Porsches. In addition to that they cost A LOT more than Porsches (both when you buy them and when you own them).

Overall I'd rate Porsche as the number 1. Still I love cars such as the F40, 288 GTO, 246 Dino and F355. Beautiful cars with a lovely sound and performance.

Regarding racing: Who has the most victories in LeMans?

[CJFusco]

Ferrari is the king of mystique. Since they are rarer, more expensive, and more exotic, they tend to get more attention than the "commonplace" Porsche.

THat being said, I don't think I ever saw a Ferrari beat a Porsche in a head-to-head magazine comparison. Most automotive experts today consider Porsches to be the best all-around cars on the road... reliability, durability, drivability - Porsches really are kings.

[}{arlequin]

wow... quite a first post... welcome, you've come to the right place lol

[RickC]

I was a Ferrari fan and lusted after one when I was young. I dismissed Porsches as "too sensible" at the time, even though the car magazines almost always showed that they were more capable. I gloried in the stories of Ferrari - the sounds, the styling - even in the difficulty of keeping all those carburetors running properly! I loved the fact that the engines screamed at 7,000 or 8,000 rpms, and didn't care that they didn't last, that they had electricals worse than English cars, that stories of rusted panels being cleaned and painted on one side and then put together at the factory seemed to be true. They were beautiful, and I was a card-carrying romantic about them. But when I finally had enough money to buy an old Dino or 308, I found I wanted a Porsche instead.

What happened? A Ferrari is everything now that it was then, but I guess I've changed. A Ferrari is too obvious for me now, and I no longer appreciate it's virtues. Sure, Ferrari wins Formula 1 consistently - a hyper expensive, short duration form of racing. But Porsche excels at Le Mans - a very expensive, endurance form of racing. I have kids, I have a life, my grandfather just passed away last year at 101. I am in this life for the long haul, and aren't interested anymore in short-term anything. I want consistent pleasure, not dizzying highs and terrible lows. I want to turn the key and have the car start every time. I want to never worry about rust. I want to enjoy the car, use the car, abuse the car, not treat it like some object d'art.

What was it Jerry Seinfeld said in his Automobile magazine article on the C-GT? Something like "there are fantasy cars and there are real cars. A Porsche is a real car." A couple of issues later, David E. Davis said that Ferraris are increasingly expensive and spectacular cars that don't get driven.

I still appreciate Ferraris for what they are - I mean, let's face it, other than the Porsche 904 and 917, Ferraris are more beautiful in general. i suppose that they are still the "best" cars for occasional use - if they are on perfect roads on a perfect day, or shown off on a Saturday night cruise, or parked at sunset to be stared at. But Porsches are better day-in and day-out - I mean, jeez, you won't damage anything just driving up the ramp from the street to the gas station.

Let's get literary for a moment. Ferrari's are like Daisy in the Great Gatsby (a book written by F. Scott Fitzgerald in his 20's) - stunning, but temperamental, ready to turn on you, and thus ultimately disappointing despite their obvious allure.

Porsches are like Kathleen in the Last Tycoon (Fitzgerald's great, unfinished book written in his early 40's) - beautiful - but also rugged, tough, free or pretence or illusion, and able to stand on their own merits rather than be eye candy. Over a lifetime, A Porsche is a much better and more noble thing to covet.

If you can buy both, do so. But I suspect that over time you'll come to appreciate the Porsche more....

[}{arlequin]

....so you use one for the gentle, romantic fantasies, and the other for the real, dirty, rough-and-tumble-do-it-in-the-garage realities since it will take whatever treatment you give it...

[Moneyguy1]

Just a bit of history.

General Motors, in the early 60s had a transaxle setup in the "compact" Pontiac of the day, and I think also the Olds. The Pontiac, for sure; I worked on one. Looked quite similar to the 924/944 setup.

[singpilot]

Do you remember that old saying about Italian cars?

Fast, Beautiful, or Inexpensive.

Pick any two.

[Dantilla]

50,000 miles on a Ferrari is considerd high mileage.

50,000 miles on a Porsche is considered broken in.

[Porschefile]

Originally posted by }{arlequin
wow... quite a first post... welcome, you've come to the right place lol

Thanks! Actually, I've been here quite a few years and browse this board religiously. This is my first post however. Basically any Porsche related or car specific question I can come up with, I research on here. Hehe, I even have about 90% of all the Pelican Parts tech articles, wiring schematics, etc already archived on my computer!

Thanks for the responses guys!

Does anyone know a grand total to the amount of Lemans wins Porsche has? I've researched these topics quite a bit, but it's very hard to find any exact figures. I remember reading that the Porsche 956/962 has more wins at Lemans than most manufacturers.

When considering Value for your money, there shouldn't be any doubt that Porsche gives you more value for your money than Ferrari. There was a few comparisons recently between the Gt3 RS and 360 CS. I can't quite remember but, isn't the gt3 rs around $120k? Even so, the 360cs is something in excess of $230k. That's ridiculously priced considering that every comparison I've seen has resulted in the reviewers deciding that both cars are almost identical in terms of performance. Same goes for the 360 and gt3, enzo and cgt, 575 and gt2........ Heck, you can even compare older Porsches and it still comes out the same. I'd rather own a 951, save almost $10k compared to a 308, and have a much better performing car. There are plenty of Ferrari's I'd love to own but, I just can't see myself doing that until money isn't an issue.

I'm really hoping that Porsche will use the CGT in one form or another for professional racing. It would be nice to see them spark up the old racing rivalry between Ferrari.

On another note, I had a question about the Lemans. I've missed it the last few years. However, from everything I've heard, the gt3's have been cleaning house with the 360's in the gt class. Is this true?

[ronin]

welcome. to sum up what others have already alluded to in parts. a Porsche is the best sports car all around, period. there is no other car in the world that can deliver sledgehammer-to-the-face performance while still posessing the ability to drive around town doing chores very comfortably, and that for possibly hundreds-of-thousands of miles. the 951 was that car back in the 80s and the 993 in the 90s. no other company has been able to create a car that covers all facets of car design the way that porsche does. one acquaintance of mine has owned many Ferraris, Lotus Esprits, Jaguars, etc., but the one car he remembers most fondly was his 951 (of which he has owned 3) he still says they were the best cars he has ever owned and regrets selling them all. I couldn't agree more (I wonder why?? )

[djmcmath]

Wow, love the analogy RickC -- that's awesome. I'd love to add something useful to the discussion, but it would really pale in comparison.

Dan

[arerrac]

And remember, If Ferrari thought that they migh not win, they withdrew from the race.
-W

[CJFusco]

Porschefile - pick up the newest copy of the magazine evo, if you can find it. On the cover is an article (written by Rowan Atkinson, believe it or not) about the Carrera GT taking on the McLaren F1 (the McLaren wins- barely). Inside is a group test that pits the GT3RS against the 360 Challenge Stradale, the Noble M12400, and the Lotus Exige. The GT3RS wins. Not a shocker - Porsches win almost every group test in evo, including Car of the Year 4 times out of the last 6.

[Zeke]

There are fine wines from Napa and fine wines from Bordeaux. Need they always be compared?

Your friend's putting down of the Porsche has nothing to do with dicussing cars. It has a lot to do with his insecure personality.

Obviously you're a lot more balanced, you own a Porsche........

[Porschefile]

Evo is a hard 1 to get a hold of around here. I will try regardless. The last magazine I bought was the current issue of "Car" that reviews the 360CS and GT3RS. IMO, I believe the Gt3RS to be a better car as far as performance is concerned. It's rear engine though, and I don't believe the full performance of this car could be extracted by the run of the mill magazine editor.

[hesaputz]

Seconds to Zeke. Both great companies, with great histories, the most consistent innovators in bringing racing developments to street cars.

Biggest difference is in Motorsports focus over the long term. Without getting into too much detail, Ferrari has primarily concentrated on F1 over the last 45 years, though prototypes and GT were important up through '71 and in other brief spurts. Porsche had one brief foray into F1 around '61, and it nearly bankrupted them. The company then set their course to race prototypes plus GT's, and to provide racing customers with competitive cars at reasonable prices. Over the last 40 or 50 years, there have been a lot more Pcars out there racing and filling fields in a multitude of series, and thus a lot more victories and development. A perfect example are the Rolex races these days; GT is 25 GT3RS cars, 2 360 Modenas, 3 M3's, and a Maserati MC12. It's a lot like the old days in IMSA; the sanctioning body will have to slow the Porsches down in order to 'encourage' competition.

In summary, Ferrari may well have more victories at the most prestigious levels like F1, but in rallying, GT, and prototype racing, plus club and series racing, Pcars rule.

On the street car side, Porsche makes series production vehicles, develops and refines them long term. Even unsuccesful cars like the 914 have a long lifespan compared to Ferrari's flavor of the year. The 924 lasted 11 years, the 928 15, and by the time they were finished, Porsche had these cars extremely reliable and refined. A good indicator of what they strive for is that at the end of the 356's life, warranty costs were about $7.50 per car.
Ferrari tried longer production and development runs with the 308, BB, and TR series in the 80's, but found this philosophy didn't work as well for them, the cars would begin to look dated next to fresher, sexier Italian competition. Starting with a fresh piece of paper every 3 years or so has lots of advantages, and Ferraris tend these days to incorporate the latest in design and materials technology, some even from F1, real candy for the auto freak. Reliability and servicabilty? well, it usually takes longer than a year or two to find all the gremlins in any design, but if you 're concerned over niggling things like this, you probably can't afford one anyway.

[kach22i]

A Ferrari is a hand made automobile, an investment that you drive very little, keep a while and sell at a profit or at least break even.

A Porsche is a mass produced sports car that one drives the piss out of and almost always will have to invest more than one can hope to gain in return.

Ferrari's are made for look'n at.

Porsche's are made to be driven.

[Z-man]

Fantastic tread! A close friend of mine here at work owns a Dine 308GT4. Awesome car - really looks cool, and performs admirably. He and I often have the F-car vs. P-car debate. His final say is typically: "Yes, but I OWN the Ferrari." Seems that the Ferrari bug has hit him pretty well...

Originally posted by kach22i
A Ferrari is a hand made automobile, an investment that you drive very little, keep a while and sell at a profit or at least break even.

A Porsche is a mass produced sports car that one drives the piss out of and almost always will have to invest more than one can hope to gain in return.

Ferrari's are made for look'n at.

Porsche's are made to be driven.

kach22i hit the nail on the head.

If I want to look at a car, I'll just google my friend's Dino 308GT4, or another friend's Mondial, or....(the list goes on)

For me, as a driving enthusiast, I'd much rather be driving my non-exotic 944S2 beating the snot out of it on the track and autocross! Would I drive a Ferrari I owned the same way? Heck no! The investment in a F-car, even a 308 would be at least 3x as much as I invest yearly in my 944S2. From an expense point of view, given the wear and tear on the track, it's simply not worth tracking a Ferrari, at least with my income.

When it comes to what I do with my Porsche on the track, my philosophy is simple: Never drive a car that you can't afford to crash & total. Granted, I have insurance on my track car, but if I crashed, and had to 'walk away' from the car and count it as a total loss, I would still be ok from a financial standpoint. (I'd be in the dog house according to my wife, but that's a different story -- why do you think I have a shed with a concrete floor.... but I digress...) I am unsure I would be able to claim the same thing with a Ferrari. And it's not just the cost, it's knowing that I've totalled a more exotic car that I would have trouble dealing with.

Sorry for rambling,
-Z-man.