young people voting

[gr8fl4porsche]

Last night I asked my 18 year old niece who lives with us if she was going to register to vote. She said no - that her vote doesn't make any difference.

How do we go about convincing the young people that becoming an informed voter is your duty as an American?

She feels that (1) vote cannot effect the election - most likely a true statement. I used the old method of " if everyone felt that way then where would we be?"

Of course I brought up the last election - please do not turn this into a 'selected not elected' debate.

Any other ideas?

[Rot 911]

My question is "why do we want to convince people to vote?" While voting may be your duty, the last person I want voting is someone I have to convince to do so. Hell sometimes I think there ought to be a test you have to take before you can vote to show that you at least have some understanding of current events and some knowledge of the candidates and their position on the issues of the day.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I agree with you Kurt, that is why I used the term 'informed voter'. I am not trying to convince her to vote - but rather to study the parties, issues and platforms and make an informed decision. I guess one has to believe in the system before you can drive yourself to study the issues.

[CJFusco]

i think it's the electoral college system that keeps a lot of people from voting. For example, Connecticut always goes to the Democrats... it's pretty much guaranteed to be a Dem landslide. so, if I vote Democrat, I'm basically wasting my vote because the college votes from CT are going to be Democrat no matter what I do.

There really is no need for the electoral college anymore, IMHO. We no longer live in the days when all the votes were counted and then delivered to Washington via horseback.

[RickM]

I believe that if an individual is not ready or mature enough to vote that they shouldn't. Kind of what you (Randy) and Kurt are saying.

Regarding the issue of being informed:
One thing I personally struggle with is getting unbiased, factual info on a candidate...wether local or not. I wish there were a website (portal) dedicated to providing this info. Unfortunatley, I think many people vote for the person on the last sign they saw on the way to the voting booth. So wether 18 or 80 being informed is relative.

[Superman]

George W. Bush reportedly "won" the electoral votes from Florida. The winner of Florida was going to be sworn in as "President." The win margin was a few hundred votes. So yes, a vote can make a difference.

On a side note, Florida continues to be in the news because of its fascinating decisions in recent years regarding how it will administer its responsibilities to voters. Apparently it has been busy trying to remove eligible voters from the list.

[gaijinda]

The electoral college is a fine thing! Nothing about horseback, but rather keeps balance in the process. It is a large country and should not be domminated by a few large blocks of voters, even if they were a majority. On region voting 70/30 on an issue should not dominate another voting 49/51.

As for young peole not voting, always think of Churchhill. Goes something like this: "If you do not vote liberal before you are thirty, you dont have a heart, and if you do not vote conservative after that, you do not have a brain".

Superman: In your "apparently...busy trying to remove eligible voters" statement, you might be referring to convicted felons being denied the right to vote? If they so choose, I do not think it unreasonable for a state to have such a law..

[Superman]

Gaijinda, the questions of what laws are possible for states to enact, and which ones might be reasonable if enacted, are irrelevant. Florida nearly got away with denying ballots to eligible voters. This, after the scandals from three years ago. Even if it could deny ballots to those people, it would have to change the law first, then deny. It did not do that. Period, paragraph, end of story.

[cowtown]

Originally posted by gaijinda
The electoral college is a fine thing! ... It is a large country and should not be domminated by a few large blocks of voters, even if they were a majority. On region voting 70/30 on an issue should not dominate another voting 49/51.

But, at least here in CA, that is exactly what the electoral college does do. CA always goes Dem. in the presidential election, contributing all 54 electoral votes. It's a reliable goldmine.

Dem. candidates don't bother campaigning much here, and Rep. candidates don't either. It's set in stone.

So as a moderate (R) who's not voting for Kerry (and maybe not Bush either, but that's another topic), does my vote count? Nope. My voice has no chance of being heard in the presidential elections. Period.

The bloc of Democratic voters (analogous the "70/30" in your quote) is dominating the other votes. It's making my vote meaningless.

Get rid of the electoral college, and the candidates come back here, work for our votes, and the votes get counted for real. Sure Gore would have won. That's an awful thought, but I'd be willing to get through it just to see the system get fixed.

[mikester]

Florida was lost to the dems by 527 votes. Every single one of them counted informed or not.

My sister didn't vote in the last election (She lived in Tampa at the time). She has quite a few regrets about that.

[Hugh R]

Originally posted by Superman
Florida nearly got away with denying ballots to eligible voters. This, after the scandals from three years ago. Even if it could deny ballots to those people, it would have to change the law first, then deny. It did not do that. Period, paragraph, end of story.

Please explain exactly how they nearly got away with denying ballots to eligible voters. Gore wanted to recount counties that he had already been declared the winner in, but didn't want the Republicans to recount counties that they carried. The Dems sent out letters to counties telling them how to certify as legitimate absentee ballots from oversees (the military). Also, I believe that subsequent to the election three years ago that every study done said that no matter how you counted/didn't count the votes, Bush did in fact win Florida. Please feel free to cite me a study that says otherwise.

[Rot 911]

Did any of you three violators happen to read what Randy wrote in his initial post here: "Of course I brought up the last election - please do not turn this into a 'selected not elected' debate." Is it really that hard to stay on topic?

[island911]

maybe point-out, to your 18 year old niece, that voting isn't about "picking a winner" . . .it's about voicing direction.

When Ross Perot ran, I doubt he thought he would win. The votes he won, however, did greatly influence the politicians about some fiscal responsibility.

Should she throw a vote Naders direction, she will be helping direct the political focus a bit more to the greeners. . .. Should she throw a vote the Libertarians direction, she will be helping direct the political focus to less bureaucracy/"big govt".

[Hugh R]

Kurt,

Your right, I got off track. My 18 year old daughter is going to UCSB in the Fall and voting Republican.

[gr8fl4porsche]

"One thing I personally struggle with is getting unbiased, factual info on a candidate...wether local or not. I wish there were a website (portal) dedicated to providing this info. "


This is what I am looking for - some relatively unbiased info on the candidates or issues, national and local.

Anyone know of such a service?

It is difficult to teach a young adult that one cannot believe everything (or anything) that is printed in papers, on TV, radio or the Internet. So when they ask "who do I believe" - how does one answer that question?
I can barely speak to her about Politics without interjecting my own personal biases. I want her to be open minded and review both sides of every issue before making a judgement. I see many people develop an opinion and then search out bits of info to back it up - while at the same time ignoring any contradictory info.

[gaijinda]

No Colin, Gore might not have won. If you want to do the time-machine thing, just consider how different the last presidential compaign could have been. Bush would have gone after votes in California and New York, and that could have more than made up for the thin margin that Gore won in the popular vote. How Gore "won" in Florida has taken a life of its own, has really become part of urban folklore. Most real studies point the other way. And how may Bush supporters stayed home in Western FLA (the conservative part of the state) election eve when the press had called Bush the winner??

Your right, off track. Sorry. Too much Baileys in the morning coffee.

As for the youngins, tell them to read everything with the understanding that 1/2 is made up and the other half is spin.

B

[cowtown]

Originally posted by gaijinda
No Colin, Gore might not have won. If you want to do the time-machine thing...

You might be right about all this; I don't disagree. The point I was trying to make is that the electoral college disillusions voters, and not just the young voters.

I disagree with your comment that the college protects the minority from being dominated by the large majority. On the national level, it works a little better, but in CA, on the state level, it's rotten.

[VenezianBlau 87]

If I could convince a young woman to do something, it wouldn't be to vote!

Get out the vote really means:

Young, no financial responsibilities (to vote Democrat)
Old, recipients of aid (to vote Democrat)
Undocumented, wishing to be the latter (to vote Democrat)

[Superman]

No, I am not trying to exhume the scandal in '00 related to the voting irregularities in Florida. (And by the way, sure Gore wanted to recount just counties where Bush won, and vice versa. A fair decision would have been to recount the state, but quite a few people insist that this would have resulted in a Gore presidency. Governor Bush decided to recount the counties that could give the White House to his kin. He achieved that goal, barely, amid a firestorm of controversy)

No, I'm pointing to the situation last week where the State of Florida was removing people from the list of eligible voters, and denying information to news agencies, etc. One agency got ahold of the list anyway, and found something like a thousand eligible, registered voters who were being purged illegally. Nice try, Jeb. But we're watching. I know that does not scare a Bush, but perhaps that's because the country is just now starting to wake up.

Heck, the great hope of many of my democrat friends is that the crap going on right now will not be quite enough to unseat Dubya, but will be enough to swing both houses of Congress in the 2004 election. Then, in 2008, with no R-incumbent, and after citizens notice the rest of Dubya's mean spirit and poor understanding, we'll get an actual GOOD D-candidate. Not Gore, not Kerry and not Hillary.

[dd74]

This election is the first I can remember where the prevailing sentiment is one of "us" vs. "them." In L.A. literally those who don't believe Kerry is the right choice, are ostracized. One almost can't even consider him ill-equipped to take over a war, rising inflation and an overall fractured country. If you say, "Yes, but Bush started it; maybe he's the best one to end it," your promptly excused from the cocktail party.

And though I wholeheartedly agree with Island about voting to give direction, the reality is the "us" vs. "them" mentality will only get stronger in the remaining days before Nov. 2, and many elections beyond that, rendering any candidate like Nader less and less votes.

With this election, the idea, simply, is retribution. Voting has become a vindictive process by late, and when an observant young person sees how adults act in regard to politics, certainly some will feel turned off. I wouldn't blame this young woman for not wanting to vote. She has a choice of hatred or revenge to vote for, and nothing inasfar as a third-party with a viable alternative to instead put her interests.

So how would I council her? I don't think I could.