Mountain Climbing

[cmccuist]

Anybody ever been mountain climbing? I've been fascinated with mountain climbing ever since reading about Hillary and Norgay as a kid.

I read every book about the Everest climb that went bad back in 1996. Everyone who survived wrote a book.

What kills me is the best anyone can come up with as to why people climb mountains is "because it is there" - George Mallory 1920 or so.

The more i read, the more i don't want to take up this sport. These people are one bad storm or one slip away from dying. The statistics on mountain climbing are not encouraging. For instance about 1200 people have made it to the top of Everest. about 175 have died.

K2 is even worse. You have about a coin flips chance of dying - number who have reached the top vs. number who have died.

I guess i understand the appeal - it's the ultimate adventure. But there are other sports where the mortality rate is much lower.

Craig

[Tishabet]

I'm a former (my GF says reformed) professional moutaineering guide. I would take issue with Everest style mountaineering being anything like "real" mountaineering, everest has become the tourist trap of mountains.
Can't say I've ever guided anything "big" in terms of altitude...the highest I've ever been was mont blanc. I've guided all over the world (Tetons, whites, wassatch, alps, sierras, dolomites, canadian rockies, etc), it was fun but sometimes a little painful to be bringing really irreverent schmoes to your favorite mountains. And IMHO, the most irreverent schmoes per capita are the folks who go directly from suburbia to the himalaya. Bleah!

[cmccuist]

Grant, this is what I was hoping for. Do you as a profesional guide resent the weekend warriors? I realize it's a paycheck. Do you think there should be some minimum standard of skill or can anyone with $70K just show up and make a run at the summit of an 8,000 meter peak?

After all, you guys are tasked with keeping the clients alive. And anyone with that kind of discretionary income may not want to be told that it's suicide to go on. That is a difficult job - being a guide. You not only have to take care of yourself, you need to watch out for those who are less skilled - maybe even those who have no buisness on the mountain in the first place.

Craig

[Tishabet]

Well, let me preface my answer witht he fact that
A) I've never been good enough to guide an everest-class mountain
and
B) I've definitely never had a "client" with 70k.

I think "weekend warrior" is a pretty loose term, and since I work as a computer geek during the week, I suppose it comewhat applies to me now. But I think I know what you're getting at. I don't think resentment is quite the right word; I think everyone should be able to enjoy the rgeat outdoors. However, my real gripe is with clients/amateurs or whoever who have a know-it-all attitude and aren't considerate of other people. That's equally appicable for a weekend backpacking trip as any mountaineering route.
As far as minimum standards and skills, I think the onus is upon the guides. I mean, I would never get a client into a situation from which they couldn't extricate themselves. But I think when it comes to big money clients wanting to bag a name-brand peak, they don't want to learn how to become a good or competent mountaineer. They just want to say they've been on the top of whetever mountain and have a picture to prove it. And there are guides out there who will do that for them. I personally have no problem telling a potential client that I don't want to guide them. In one instance, I told a guy, after about 6 hours of climbing, that we were heading down and I'd give him his money back, and I did. The guy just wasn't listening to me, and I didn't feel safe with him. The fact is, when there's a huge sum of money at stake, most guides will take the risk.

[einreb]

'Mountain Climbing' can mean a lot of different things... you're talking about going from reading a book about Everest to climbing it?

maybe start off with some backcountry camping in the sierra's, 14ers in Colorado, or skills courses in avalanches/equipment(ropes, crampons, et cetera).

its a part of the world that most people dont get to see with their own eyes.

[cmccuist]

This is where you earn your money. Because the consequences of failure are death. If a guy is haning off the side of a mountain, or you have to bivouac because of weather, you don't know how that guy is going to react. It's a huge responsibility.

I know that improvements have been made in equipment and communications and weather forecasting, but ultimately, it's just a couple of guys very far away from civilization.

That's what happens all too often, even on smaller mountains.

Craig

[Tishabet]

The fact of the matter is, a less name-brand mountain like, say, Ama Dablam will cost WAY less to climb in terms of guide fees, despite the fact that it is more difficult than (and nearly as high as) Everest.
The consequences of failure on nearly every mountain is death.
Just like in, say, auto racing. But you don't see Bill gates buying his way into LeMans, do you?

[Tishabet]

Originally posted by cmccuist
This is where you earn your money. Because the consequences of failure are death. If a guy is haning off the side of a mountain, or you have to bivouac because of weather, you don't know how that guy is going to react. It's a huge responsibility.

PS
If you're a good guide, you will know EXACTLY how the person is going to react. Been there, done that. You are right that it's a big responsibility, which is why you need to keep your client in a situation from which they can deliver themselves. As for bivouacing and such, nobody dies bivuoacing and nobody dies because the mountain was out to get them. People get hurt and die when they screw up. It's one of those "most accidents happen in the bathroom" type of things....I don't personally know anyone who has died while lunging for that last rock outcropping, but I know plenty of people who have been huirt or worse because they unclipped from the ropes before they were in a safe spot.
If you look at any mountain range in the US, even the ones famous for difficult climbing routes, you'll find that the vast majority of deaths are from people who went out on a nice summer day, got wet, got cold and died of hypothermia because they didn't bring raingear. I subscribe to a publication called "accidents in north american mountaineering" that comes out once a year and details every accident in NA, and it's the same every year.

[cmccuist]

Originally posted by einreb
'Mountain Climbing' can mean a lot of different things... you're talking about going from reading a book about Everest to climbing it?

Actually the more i read, the more I don't want to do it - at least high altitude. I would like to do some moderate climbing and I have done some climbing in the Sierras. More hiking than climbing adn you're right - it's fantastic.

The highest peak in Texas is about 6500 ft and you can drive up about half of it.

Craig