Question for all non U.S. Pelicans...

[dd74]

Simply this: given the way our country has handled itself since Bush came into office, would you ever, unless you already might have, consider moving to the States?

I've heard and read of some foreign luminaries and intellectuals, who, although vehemently opposed to many U.S. policies, would still consider moving to the United States.

I'd like to hear non U.S. brother (and sister) Porsche owners thoughts on this matter.

Thank you.

[CamB]

a) I don't know that you'd have me (it is quite hard to get in), but if I could:

b) Maybe I would. Being opposed to certain of your govt's policies doesn't really bother me I'm opposed to certain policies of both my own (left leaning) govt and their main opposition. I guess I hope for better things in the future (from NZ and/or the US).

I don't know how to put this totally politely, but the main reason I would rather live here than the US is cultural. To be fair, I'd probably have to live in a city, and I've only been to a short list of them - LA, San Francisco/bay area, Las Vegas and NY. Also been to South Lake Tahoe, Reno and Lebanon (Oregon, not Middle East), but I couldn't even consider living there because they're too small for my line of work. Las Vegas is out for the same reason.

Of the three cities, I could do San Francisco. LA is too, ummm, block your eyes LA-dwellers - tacky? nah LV is tacky, but not LA. Ummm, cultureless? yeah, that's it. NY would be too hard (in all aspects), and the weather is crap for half the year.

SF would be pretty hard too - I don't like commuting so would have to pay the price accommodation-wise (applies in LA and NY too, of course).

But even in SF I would struggle a little with the culture. NZrs are pretty self-effacing, whereas American's generally are the opposite. This is a generalisation only! I must stress that this is also the primary strength of the US - competitive capitalism pervades right down to interpersonal relationships.

There you go - I wrote you a whole book. The cliff notes: I would consider moving to America if I could (for opportunity and excitement), but I find the US culture hard to deal with.

[turbocarrera]

I lived in Dallas for a few years and travelled all over the country for my job.. found my wife there.. some of the nicest people I've ever met.. the weather was just fantastic for a guy used to -40C winters..

I did have a few problems with it, mostly the pollution - I acquired some skin and allergy problems because of it, according to my allergist down there. He even said I probably couldn't live in a large metropolitan city because of it. Racism was pretty high I found, not that there isn't a problem here, but I could feel the tension.

After 9/11 I noticed people kind of gave me the cold shoulder when they found out I was a foreigner, not serious but I could feel it - can't say I really blame them though..

There's alot to love about America, and I consider Americans my brothers, but it's not my home. I'm Canadian eh.

[MFAFF]

dd,

Its not just recently that the US admin has begun alienating other nationals.

Even when I lived there, 91 thro 96 in DC, there were too many instances of USA first and only.

Since George W has been in office its just more visible, because for better or worse this administration is more forthright in its opinions and views.

I had a great time in the US, with a number of years being a student followed by a time of being a regular joe, nice house, nice car (911 of course) great partner and her two kids.

So why did I leave? Because in my chosen field the US is not the place to be, either in terms of having the best work or the best working conditions. The best work was, then and still is, done elsewhere, more precisely its done in London and although the 'lifestyle' is definitely not the same the 'life' is much more satisfying.

So I left and have not really had the opportuinty to go back.

Would I move there again? Sure, if the work and location were correct. For me the US does offer a great lifestyle, great open roads, cheap gas and P-cars, great locations for flying, my other great love, but professionally at least in the majority its not up there.

That is the real reason why I do not live there anymore...not really because you have a Clinton or George W or Kerry in the White House.
The US is bigger than the President (still) and if Geroge W is not reelected his Iraq espisode will gradually be overshadowed by other, more pressing concerns which will come to the next President.

[Purrybonker]

I think you're fishing here...

The answer is simple for me and most Canadians that I discuss the subject with. The US is still attractive as a place to live inspite of the Bush administration. Most of the positives are based on weather and geography and the warmth of individual Americans. Those things are difficult to offset even with the GWB admin. stone-age approach to international relations and a social/cultural face that is the contemporary of 19th century europe.

Many Canadian families have winter places in the US - we have one in Hawaii. We welcome the climate in Hawaii as warmly as we welcome the Canadian culture upon our return.

[SteveStromberg]

If the USA is hated by the rest of the world why do they all want to move here? The ROW needs the USA but we could get along fine without them.

[motion]

Because they want our economic opportunities. Its always about the money. I see it every day in the thousands of illegal immigrants employed throughout my community. The US has no culture to speak of, so I'm not buying that one. Its just a place to make a quick buck for most.

Steve - your ddk-online.com is missing the 'i'.

[joeclarke]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
If the USA is hated by the rest of the world why do they all want to move here? The ROW needs the USA but we could get along fine without them.

aw, that's just soooo cute Steve. You just go right on telling yourself that.

Everything would be just fine without mideast oil and Canadian gas. Oops - except that the US would be kinda like a third-world nation without those two things, not to mention countless other products, resources and services that America imports from around the world.

In fact, the US has a whopping negative balance of trade with the rest of the world these days. That's whats gonna sink the US dollar vs the euro plus GWB's huge deficit spending. So I guess you could say...

The USA needs the ROW.

[Serge914]

On the positive side you have : nice weather, nice beaches, great landscapes, quantity of old cars at a good price and of course a friendly population.

On the negative side: a wider gap between the richs and the poors, more violence, not so good restaurants and some right handed religious extremists.

That is probably why most Canadians wouldn't move to your country but dreams of retiring there for the winter.

[Mule]

And worst of all, politically incorrect stuff like this: http://thecrowshow.com/swf/squoosh.htm

[expat]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
If the USA is hated by the rest of the world why do they all want to move here?

Because of the surf dude! Then again....everytime I've been out so far here, its mega crowded and everyone just drops in. The surfs good but the surfing is a bit of a downer.

[ronin]

Originally posted by joeclarke
aw, that's just soooo cute Steve. You just go right on telling yourself that.

Everything would be just fine without mideast oil and Canadian gas. Oops - except that the US would be kinda like a third-world nation without those two things, not to mention countless other products, resources and services that America imports from around the world.

ignorance is bliss, joe. the fact remains that the U.S. has virtually everything it needs to sustain itself contained between sea and shining sea, including gas and oil. the reason for importing most of what we import is choice. we choose to import oil from Venezuela and the Middle East because we wish to pay reasonable prices for this commodity. if we chose to cut ourselves off from these sources tomorrow, the U.S. would still survive. (much to your chagrin) yes, prices would increase (quite drastically at first) but the country would survive

the reason why we import other goods is not because we can't make these goods, but because we choose not to if they are available cheaper elsewhere. remember, the reason why international trade exists is because some individuals said to themselves "hey, that country over there has some interesting products that people in my country just might want to buy. let me risk some of my money by importing them and see if I can make some money for myself" and not because some government commission decided on which porducts to import for the common good of its people. in short, it's called capitalism, and (probably much to your chagrin again) it works

once a system of trade develops between two or more countries, these countries are now in a state of economic interdependence. and it is this state of interdependence that becomes a deterrent to conflict, as these countries now stand to lose much more than what they would gain by warring against each other. the old adage "no two countries containing a McDonald's have ever gone to war against each other" holds a lot of truth (well, it did until Serbia anyway. thanks, Bill )

I can guarantee you one thing, the ROW is a lot more dependent on the U.S.s existence than the U.S. is on the ROW


btw: I am an immigrant from Germany and I still love my Vaterland. however, I adhere to the principles of the country in which I live and I have come to love this country dearly. people always speak of the gap between the rich and the poor here, but no one seems willing to show that most people that would be considered poor here still have a standard of living that is leaps ahead of the majority of other countries

[expat]

Back to the original question, well yes I would consider moving...ohhhh I already have

The politics wasn't an issue for me. Every country has its good and bad.

The housing prices are a killer in LA but the weather and general friendliness of the poeple and ease of access to family 'stuff' and 'boys toys' is too cool

I think of it all as lifestyle and experiences, sorry if that's too shallow.

[CamB]

ROW is a lot more dependent on the U.S.s existence than the U.S. is on the ROW

The US standard of living would drop dramatically if it suddenly became self-sufficient --> it would have to because prices would rise (or wages would fall).

If the rest of the world continued to engage in trade, it would, I'm pretty sure, be fine. As far as I am aware there is no particular resource available only in the US. There might be an issue while technology sorted itself out though.

You make it sound as though the US invented capitalism and trade. I mean really, give me a break.