Swift vets ad, ouch!
 

But LD, those swift boat vets are obviously ALL -- each and every one of them, to a man -- part of the VRWC! It is THEY who must be lying. must be lying, must be lying, must be lying...

JP

Oh yea, I forgot. It will be interesting to see what kind of funding these guys get. I guess they have $500,000 right now (read not much) to place this. I would assume they would need 3-5 mill to effectively saturate swing states. I will say that is the most scalding camaign ad I've ever seen (barring the dragging death blaming Bush). If they're lying, sue em.

So I guess this is the new style of campaign ad - 'independent' groups make up their own ads, as nasty as they want, and the 'official' campaign doesn't have to take any heat.

I'll bet the RNC is secretly funding them, in revenge for F-9/11.

This is what McCaine Feingold has created. The 527's run wild such as Moveon. These guys are not a 527 to my knowledge and this has been a grassroots thing from the beginning. Either way, this WILL hit home with alot of Vets. What's the lesson here? Don't parade a bunch of your supporters from decades past if you don't want to hear from the detractors. Again I say ouch.

Thom- you obviously don't know squat about what McCain-Feingold did. Pay attention kiddo- there are lots of groups out there called "527"s based upon a loophole in McCain-Feingold that are allowed to say anything they want in support of whomever they please. They are out there in numbers from both parties, Moveon is a famous DNC one. They CANNOT take money from a party, instead they get someone else to donate the funds, in the case of the DNC- Hollywood and Soros. So you can make any allegations you like about who funds it, but these groups are the only other means to get out a message after the free speech restrictions in the name of campaign finance reform, unless of course, you want to restrict the rights of those who oppose the DNC to free speech, while allowing the fat man to say whatever he likes, fully truthful or not. Besides if these guys were there, saw what he did, who are you to impunge their rights to free speech. Favorite tactic of the liberal facists, stifle opposition speech by calling them idiots, racists, bigots and so forth without addressing the issues.

:) that will be a tough job discrediting those guys.

On one hand, there are those vets supporting Kerry. What they potentially get out of the deal is future access to the (potentially)most powerful man in the world.

OTOH, what do the guys who are supporting the truth (oops, presumptuous slip :cool: ) get? . . . maybe some payback for that dweeb kerry, who was running around in Vietnam making home-movies of "his heroism" . . .the guy insiting he get a medal for some petty self-inflicted scratch. . . (?)

Could it be THIS guy doing all the funding....? :D Those silly Republicans can be sooooo sneaky!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091720622.jpg

Randy

Sure do and the liberal leftists take pages right out of their playbook.

McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit
- RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer
Thursday, August 5, 2004

(08-05) 07:20 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

The White House did not immediately address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot.

Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Kerry's record and statements on the war on terrorism -- not his service in Vietnam -- are fair game. "The Bush campaign never has and will never question John Kerry's service in Vietnam," he said.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because he believes it's bad for the political system. "It reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal," he said.

"I deplore this kind of politics. I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's.

Jim Rassmann, an Army veteran who was saved by Kerry, said there were only six crewmates who served with Kerry on his boat. Five support his candidacy and one is deceased.


URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/05/politics1020EDT0544.DTL

From InfoPlease-

Fascism has found adherents in all countries. Its essentially vague and emotional nature facilitates the development of unique national varieties, whose leaders often deny indignantly that they are fascists at all. In its dictatorial methods and in its use of brutal intimidation of the opposition by the militia and the secret police, fascism does not greatly distinguish itself from other despotic and totalitarian regimes. There are particular similarities with the Communist regime in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin. However, unlike Communism, fascism abhors the idea of a classless society and sees desirable order only in a state in which each class has its distinct place and function. Representation by classes (i.e., capital, labor, farmers, and professionals) is substituted for representation by parties, and the corporative state is a part of fascist dogma.

In our case in this country, if you stray from the dogma of the DNC, you are immediately branded as an outcast and part of the "great right wing conspiracy". Note also the use of class warfare as a means to access power and after power is gained, it is maintained through discipline in the party. Just as the article states "Fascism abhors the idea of a classless society", so would the DNC because there wouldn't be any rich to soak anymore to the amusement of those who contribute little to nothing to society, the modern entitlements and wealth transfer. The end result is to completely take power of every facet of society, (big, big brother government) and control through central authority, "after all, we know better than you how to run your life and we mean best for you, unless it conflicts with our power". Modern liberal thinkers really do have the delusion that they know best for the common man. The real problem is that the common man has been so dumbed down that he's like a frog in the a pan of water, not realising that the heat is being slowly turned up until it's too late. Now, take a look at the modern DNC and the rhetoric and methodology and you'll see parallels here with strong hints of socialism thrown in. The DNC modern version of fascism/socialism is insidious and very real. Want to pay MORE taxes, go ahead, vote DNC. Want to subjugate national sovreignty to the UN, go ahead, vote DNC. Want to see the ACLU dictating your free speech rights as "hate speech", vote DNC. Want to find out just how "peaceful and tolerant" liberals are, admit you're a Christian with a conscience and you vote. If you can't see this going on, well you could always become a part of the modern rainbow DNC "workers paradise" with the Kerry overseers.

funny, but I had a discussion with a group of very devout born-again xtians the other night and they were voting for Kerry. Evidently they didn't like the "big tent" of the Republican party.

What never ceases to amaze me is the one-sided blindness. "The DNC is evil incarnate" while the Republican party is everything that is good and nice. "The Republicans are nazi fascists who planned 9/11" while the DNC is trying to save the world.

How about a little from columns A, B, C, and D? There are stupid and evil people in both parties. And people who actually want to do good in each party. Its just a question of who/which happens to be pulling the strings at any particular time.

The sad thing is that the good ones on both side can't seem to come together to really work on things. But then again, that wouldn't allow the evil ones to get what they want...

The sad conclusion I have come to is that a large number of people view a political party like their favorite sports team. Dammit they are rooting for their team. So what if there are a few bad apples on their team or the other team has better players. It's still THEIR team. And that is who the are rooting/voting for.

What disturbs me about that ad, is that a number of the quotes refer to Kerry's post-service anti-war actions. That's very different from presenting eyewitness testimony that Kerry was a crappy leader IN Vietnam--a topic which is fair game given the huge convention spin the Dems through out about what a hero he claims to have been.

The editing of those sound bites detract from the impact of the soldiers' testimony. Americans deserve to know if Kerry is full of it about his service. But, who needs to hear some whiner *****ing yet again at Kerry for tossing the medals.

Nostatic- if it were a perfect world. While I'm a member of R party, and very conservative on most matters, I'm highly libertarian on others. On those issues, I think both major parties are way off base. So, I've looked at both parties as a whole, weighed the options based on my convictions and pull the lever accordingly. Also, you may have a few folks who claim to be Christians voting for K, but where I'm from, they're almost universally against, but there are lots of military, families with military and retired military in my area and the county is heavily Republican. Also note that there are "liberals" and "conservatives" within Christianity too, doctrinally speaking, so your finding a couple doesn't surprise me one bit.

OK, now that the hearts are bleeding over happy-good-time politics, does anyone care about what these guys are saying? Did Kerry lie in his reports to obtain medals or or these guys making it up? Does it matter to you?