There are less than three months until the election, an election that will decide the next President of the United States. The man elected will be the president of ALL Americans, not just the Democrats or the Republicans. To show our solidarity as Americans it's time that we all come together, Democrats and Republicans alike.

If you support the policies and programs of our President George Bush, please drive with your headlights 'ON' during the day.

If you support Candidate "John Kerry" please drive with your headlights 'OFF' at night.

That's not even close to being funny or clever. 'Nuff said.

Don't listen to him...that was darned funny.

Remember to vote on November 3rd, Democrats, for the good of the country...It is your unpatriotic duty.

Cam, if I didn't know better, I would think that you just made an 'end justifies the means' arguement. . . .Nah. ..you wouldn't do something that silly.:p

I'm speculating that Mul is seeing aspects of John Kerry circa 1970, resurfacing. This is where Kerry threw out HUGE lies (or commited war-crimes; your choice) all to stir the pot, in an 'end justifies the means' game. . . and the end there was "power for John Kerry."

Is Kerry doing that again? . . .I've got to say it is quite possible. This type of dividing for political power is hardly missing from Kerry's political playbook.

Just as he was "sensitive" to the Vietnamese, back in the 60/70s; he is now throwing out how we ought to have a "more sensitive war on terrorism"

The local paper (Post & Courier) here in Charleston SC carried the Times article in today's edition:

Firstly this is not a news article; it's an editorial piece. To pass such a poorly written piece of as journalism is a travesty, I would think the Times hired a more proffessional class of reporters.
All in all it is more than a comparo of what has been said by the Kerry camp vs. what the SBV have said; I see no evidence that there was any attempt to find the real truth in this particular debate or that any effort was made to do any type of investigation or dig up the true facts by the reporters. Certainly the Times' staff has access to info thru the FOIA just as anyone else would, it's a shame they mede no attemp to find the truth. The article has a very pro-Kerry slant to it, which again makes it only fit for the editorial page. (It was section 1 in our paper)

At least half of the article was about how the SBV have gotten financing from pro-Republican sources. DUH, you didn't think Soros was going to send them a check, did you?? Here it is an election year and a group who thinks Kerry isn't fit to lead the country gets a financial boost from pro-Bush sources? Nothing to see here folks, just typical election year BS.

Yet another:

Former Swift Boat Commander Backs Kerry on Vietnam

Sat Aug 21, 3:32 PM ET Add Politics to My Yahoo!


By Carol Giacomo

PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry (news - web sites) in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service and integrity.


Weighing in on the bitterly divisive issue, William Rood of the Chicago Tribune said the tales told by Kerry's detractors are simply untrue.


"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story on the newspaper's Web site.


"One is John Kerry ... who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."


Before now, wanting to put memories of war and killing behind him, Rood refused all interviews. "But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown," he wrote.


"It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," he added.


Kerry, a former Navy lieutenant, is a highly decorated Vietnam veteran, and his war service is essential to his challenge to President Bush (news - web sites) as commander-in-chief when America is faces terrorism and other threats.


Increasingly, veterans opposed to Kerry and allied with Bush, led by a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, have tried to undermine Kerry's record and credibility.


Many veterans are bitter that after returning from Vietnam, Kerry became one of the war's most prominent critics.


After a new CBS poll showing Kerry's support among veterans slipping since the Democratic convention, the Massachusetts senator launched a counterattack.


On Friday, he accused the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of collaborating with the Bush campaign and asked the Federal Election Commission (news - web sites) to force the group to withdraw its ads.


Bush spent the war in the United States serving in the Texas Air National Guard. Some Democrats accuse Bush of going absent without leave from the guard, citing gaps in his attendance record.


AGGRESSIVE AND UNUSUAL COUNTERATTACK


In the Chicago Tribune article, Rood said Kerry urged him to go public with his account.


While "I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me ... what matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did," Rood wrote.


Members of Kerry's swift boat crew have played a prominent role in his campaign, appearing at the Democratic National Convention and many other events.


Rood said he was part of the operation that led to Kerry receiving the Silver Star and had no firsthand knowledge of events that resulted in his Purple Hearts or Bronze Star.





In that February 1969 operation, he said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong soldiers and Kerry devised an aggressive ad unusual attack strategy that was praised by their superiors.

In their book, "Unfit for Command," Kerry critics John O'Neill and Jerome Corsi accuse Kerry of exaggerating wartime events. They said Kerry's attack on the Viet Cong ambush displayed "stupidity, not courage."

"The only explanation for what Kerry did is the same justification that characterizes his entire short Vietnam adventure: the pursuit of medals and ribbons," they alleged.

Rood said while ambushes were common, the difference in this fight was that Kerry, who had tactical command of the operation, had talked to Rood and other commanders beforehand about not responding the way they usually did to an ambush.

"We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats," Rood said.

He said the first time they took fire Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush.

The plan worked. "We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others," Rood said.

Rood said then-Capt. and now retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, congratulated the three swift boats, saying the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of completely overwhelming the enemy."

Hoffmann has become a Kerry critic and now says what the boats did that day showed Kerry was impulsive to a fault.

All Kerry has to do is release his records...That is all...nothing more...The truth would set him free...or would it?


http://www.swiftvets.com/images/brothers.jpg

fwiw.. hard polling data shows this issue is costing Kerry votes.

bush gets owned by mccain

http://mfile.akamai.com/10211/wmv/johnkerry.download.akamai.com/10211/082104_old_tricks_wmv_dsl.wvx

hmm, the accusation sounds familiar . . . :rolleyes:

Lets face it some of you will vote for the commies er John Kerry and the rest of us will vote for Freedom with GW.

I sometimes think that SteveStromberg wants the candidate that is most likely to declare war against mexico so he can kill a few illegal aliens.

Steve..You talk like a man with a paper hat.

freedom?

do you have a son/daughter who has died in Iraq? do you believe that WMDs was the central justification for the military aggression/invasion against Iraq? do you believe that WMDs have not been found?do you believe that the man who has sent US soldiers to their death has publicly made FUN of the fact that WMDs have not been found in IRaq (dont even make me dig that one up)? do you believe that 1000 brave men/women have died in Iraq over a lie? nevermind the thousands of innocent other iraqi civilians. do you believe all these things or do you believe in the easter bunny? if you dont understand the differences between facts and fiction, please dont talk about freedom. that is insulting to the rest of us who know what freedom is.

Onramp:

It has been said that the true war lovers are those who have not faced it close up and personal.

Steve...go spend some time at a VA hospital and then come back with a report. We'd all love to hear what you have to say...

HOW ABOUT BEING IN THE INFANTRY FOR 14 MONTHS,SEEING ACTION IN 1969-70, DOING IT ON FOOT, NO BOATS.
BULL**** KERRY,YOUR A JERK WHO LIES,BUT KNOWS HOW TO MARRY MONEY

Turns out everything in Kerry's records regarding the Bronze star and Silver star have been borne out either by testimony of William Rood, who has kept quiet until now, and the write-up of the Bronze star award to Larry Thurlow.

These "Swift Boat vets" have all been exposed as liars. Even Chris Matthews ripped Thurlow apart on national TV, and he's hardly Democrat-friendly.

The Bush slime machine will have to take another tack.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicides (which total 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of the fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

Gee I think we are already at war with Mexico

Here is the WMD Dumb Ass
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/

VOTE COMMIE VOTE KERRY

I would like to see Roods bank records to check for recent deposits

What do you lefties care, you hate the military "industrial complex." You people have been spinning a yarn about Vietnam since the 70s. Your people spat on our Vietnam vets for their homecoming. You people have never met a dictatorship that you didn't try to "understand."...You people give not ***** one for the military and you never have. The military knows this, that is why they are predominantly Conservative, love Bush, hate Kerry and were disenfranchised by the Gore campaign in 2000.

The DNC is rotten through and through (as are their Mooreon minions).

Mul,

Couldn't agree more...simple to see if anyone takes the time to look at the FACTS written in the actual voting records of the congress and senate.
And all you guys that talk about the 1000 dead, please volunteer either your time or resources to support the thousands more wounded that need assistance now. Put up or spare me and many others in the military your fradulant tears.

It took 30 years for people who were upset about John Kerry winning these medals to save up enough money to run ads vocalizing their positions?:rolleyes:

Sounds credible to me, and everyone else (not).

Demeaning the awards veterans receive while in the line of fire, especially while we have men and women fighting for us with these medals often as their sole physical recognition is repugnant.

Check out the latest electoral college count: "Our latest Electoral College projection stands at Kerry 223 Bush 183."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm

I see where the popular vote is a dead heat, but we know that doesn't matter, right?


SmileWavy

yep, you're right once again, those are WMDs. you're right and the rest of the country is wrong. i should have figured.
:rolleyes:

BTW: This "lefty" volunteered to go to Iraq to look for weapons of mass destruction. I wanted to see them with my own eyes.
I have been a 54B for 10 years.

Unfortunatley, the Chemical Recon unit (704th, Arden Hills Mn) I was assigned to was NEVER EVEN SENT OVERSEAS TO LOOK FOR WMD's. Hmmmm...no wonder nothing has been found.

I served 6 mos stateside last spring/summer, though.
My brother was activated as well. Actually, he has been (involuntarilly) activated TWICE for this fiasco since Jan 2003.
His family is now broken up as a result.

I took a significant pay cut to come out of the IRR to serve an active duty tour, against my wifes and families wishes.

Any of you Bush fans do anything similar?

I am NOT talking about anyone ALREADY serving on active duty (done that too)...anyone else drop what they were doing (911 restoration was one of the things I "dropped"), take a pay cut, and pick up a rifle?

I'll even open it up a bit...any of you sign one of your kids up for the service since Iraq went hot? (I don't have a kid old enough, so no, I did not do this.)

Please hurry and reply, because I am holding my breath...







:eek:

The headline from Strombergs WMD link:

"Bomb said to hold
deadly sarin gas
explodes in Iraq
‘Small dispersal’ occurs
but no serious injuries,
U.S. military reports"


WOW! Glad we invaded that country to find that!

I feel safer now!!!

I'll grant you that they found a Weapon, but where is the Mass Destruction part?

Get a grip...

When Kerry first took center-stage (circa 1970) These guys, no doubt where pissed about Kerrys anit-war stance. . .being labeled as baby-killers, and buchering murderers.
No doubt Kerry c1970 visability led everyone of those Swifty's to remember exacty what went down during those few Kerrry-months in Vietnam.

NOW, Kerry & Edwards have brought Kerry's Vietnam issue into the forefront of a run for POTUS.

And why was it never brought up when he ran for US Senator, what, four times?

I agree that Kerry brought up his service in Vietnam - a valid qualification for commander in chief to have empathy for those serving in hostile situations based upon experience. Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS. Hence the need for attack ads orchestrated by the Bush campaign.

Also, yes, he (kerry)pissed a lot of people in 1970...why so long to vent?
They just let these "lies" sit for 30 years? C'mon...what integrity!

Anyone disputing his Silver Star, his highest award, and the nations third highest?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif
"fradulant tears" . . .that is exactly what gets me about some of the people here, holding up the dead, and feigning tears, all for their political position.

As I've said before, our troops in Iraq have done a better job at not gettng killed than the driver on the roads of America.

Near here, there is a big Mountain, that climbers often need to be rescued from. . .it's dangerous work, and often the rescuers get killed. So, I supposes the rescuers should be stopped. :rolleyes:

edit: del

"he ran for US Senator"

A State senate run is hardly the same as a run for CiC. Furthermore, Kerry did not likely push his war record, being that those times, WAR was not something people wanted to hear about.

"Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS."

You're kidding right!? Bush has 3 years experience fighting our newest threat (terrorism) and you compare that to Kerrys 4 months of swift-boat duty!?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1093191062.gif

"They just let these "lies" sit for 30 years? C'mon...what integrity!"Do you mean Kerry? . .Kerry tried to promulgate lies for 30 years . .. the other vets got to see Kerrys stories change with time. . ."in Cambodia, seared, seared in my memory" to "near Camboia" . .."President Nixion sent me" to "Uhhh-huh-huh--uhhh."

"Anyone disputing his Silver Star, his highest award, and the nations third highest?" I don't understand it. What is the full story? We know that he lobbied hard for medals.

Could it be because he was running for Senate in MA and these guys aren't residents there?? Surely you don't think that a resident of one state has the right to influence the choices of another do you?
These SBV guys feel that Kerry isn't fit to be president based on what they feel are his actions in Viet Nam and distortions since; the difference is that he's now running for an office which affects them directly, thus they say their piece now. ( Not that I feel they or Kerry is being 100% truthful; I suspect the real truth lies somewhere in between.)

Well Michael Moore, do you condone and support people forcing their sons and daughters to follow only the path to the future that is picked by the parents????
Last I heard it was the choice of the individual to sign up for the military, or go to college, or work at McD's.
Most parents will support the path that their child has chosen to take in life whether they have apprehensions about it or not.
Have you already instructed your children about what they have to be when they grow up??

"Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS."

"You're kidding right!? Bush has 3 years experience fighting our newest threat (terrorism) and you compare that to Kerrys 4 months of swift-boat duty!?"

Bush has been under enemy fire for 3 years?
Missed that headline. Please elaborate!
Please show me where he showed some courage under fire.
The closest he came to being under fire was 9/11, and he retreated to AF1. Kerry has experience under fire, experience Bush does not posses. Show me where I am wrong, please!

So US Senators from other states do not influence/create policy for other states in this country? So they were ok with him having ill-gotten medals when he was "just" a US Senator. Ok, makes perfect sense! Actually, several of the SBV supported Kerry as a hero as recently as last year.

PAC's from outside their home state never take interest in State seats for US Congress/Senate in other states and spend money trying to influence the vote?
Please elaborate!

You are right - the new spin is a result of the POTUS run. Nothing new here.

The reality is, if the SBV were knee deep in integrity, they would have protested from day one. They didn't. I call BS.

He earned the medals. Deal with the fact Bush didn't step up for Vietnam, and did exactly what his track record indicated he would on 9/11 - avoid any possibility of doing anything noble/brave, and retreated to AF1 when it was remotely possible he "could" have been in danger. He's not a "look danger" in the eye kind of guy -
Kerry is and has a Silver Star to prove it, as well as other medals.

I have instructed my son that it is honorable to serve your country.

He intends on attending West Point. He already has a recomendation. He is 11.

My mother "signed up" my little Brother when he was 17 - he wanted to join the military, but could not without mom's signature. Not condoning anyone being forced into the military.
Boy, you Republicans are really in favor of twisting stuff...wow.

He subsequently serving in Panama, and Gulf War 1.
All three of her sons served at the same time.

Wow, now I am Michael Moore. Good stuff! Thanks for the compliment!

SO what you are saying is that you feel that it is your right to travel to say Nebraska and tell them who they should and shouldn't vote for? On what basis? You know what's better for them than they do? From your post about signing others into military service, I can only assume that you think that you do.

As for Kerry's seat as a senator from MA, I don't think it would be to much of a stretch to think that were it not Kerry in that seat it would be another ultra-liberal; afterall it's the way that they tend to vote there.

The real reality is; if Kerry were knee deep in integrity, he would have told the truth from day one. He didn't. I call BS too. That and the fact that he's put so much campaign influence on one 4 month stint, rather that 20 years of where the real truth about the real Kerry lies.

I don't know what the full story is either. I May have some understanding of it in general thought.

In the mid "80s I was working in a boat yard with about 100 small boats. Some of those boats were only under power a couple of times a season. Not because the boat couldn't function. but because they were an ongoing drinking party. It was a safe, free, isolated, no holds bared, floating social scene.
During the week I'd be hanging with some owners while doing my wrench thing on these boats. One guy was a lawyer who was animated, funny, and interesting in the way he would trade win-loss cases with other lawyers on the marina telephones in the privacy of us wrenches. So sometimes we would talk about his time in 'Nam as a military lawyer. He would ferry around with medical and food goods. His convoy was labled with large insigna denoting it's purpose, which was to offer help to Everyone. Even the N Cong waited for a visit to villages that supported them. Nobody wanted to target his convoy. WTF free food, meds, etc all given away without question. His lawyer work involved giving away medals.. "Ok guys. Who needs a medal this month?" All you had to do is put together a senario and have a witness and he would sign off, no problem. He didn't care about trial testomony. He only cared about giving away anything the soldiers wanted.

I'm not demeaning any recognition due to valor at all. I'm only stating that if you really wanted a medal that it wasn't hard to get one when my lawyer friend was around.

So when I see a guy with Kerry's profile wearing a Silver Star I have to sit back and think about the circumstances and the person, especially if he's boasting about it. I have Never met or hung with "Nam friends who have ever boasted about medals.. Actually they almost Never talk to civilians about what happened over there. If the do talk it's because they trust you to Maybe understand them personally, not to understand what happened.

Tuck Kerry.

I appreciate your service soldier. You have no idea (well maybe you do) of the love and affection my Conservative Christian brothers and sisters have for you and your fellow soldiers. You are continuously prayed for, that God keep you safe and that the Iraqi people get an opportunity at freedom.

Thanks!

May the Lord watch over you and yours.

How that could be a compliment I'm unsure, but if you are comfortable with it then more(Moore) power to ya.

Goodness, someone's sure getting hysterical.

First, it's not clear that anyone ever was 'spat on' coming home from Vietnam. It's an urban legend.

Second, some of us 'lefties' served our country.

Third, many dictatorships have been supported by the 'right.' Can you name one supported by the 'left?'

I don't know what you're smoking/reading, but I met Ron Kovic and know plenty of other fellow Viet-era vets you'd consider on the 'left' and they care about the country they served and the people they served with. And they think the 'right' is wrong.

So now it comes out: Military lawyers cruised around on boats in Viet Nam asking people, "Who wants a medal this month"?? And all anyone needed was 3 and they could go home? :confused:

Well, fock me running Ronnie!! You'd better get on the phone w/ the Bush campaign, I smell a "lifestyle upgrade" coming your way in the near future. ;)

Tell us the truth, you've worked with a lot of solvent-based materials over the years, haven't you? ;)

This "Lefty" is still holding his breath waiting to hear from a "Righty" who dropped what he was doing last year in an attempt to go to Iraq.
If you subscibe to Mulholland's point of view, the "Righty's" are the only Patriots and/or people who support the troops. Very, very, wrong - in fact it is a lie.


In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to find out that he volunteered to go to Iraq, as gung ho as he is.

So...Did you do your Patriotic duty Mulholland, and answer the call to arms last year? If you were to old or couldn't for health reasons, or some other legitimate reason, that's cool. Not everyone CAN serve. Of course you could even choose NOT to serve, it just seems based upon everything I have ever read that you have written, you would be exactly the type of guy who would go, if he could.

Pay cuts, and angry families don't count as reasons for not volunteering, BTW. Didn't stop me volunteering for EITHER Gulf War, so If that's your excuse, it sucks.