Another Swift Boat combat memory turns fuzzy.

[Seahawk]

Mul,

Couldn't agree more...simple to see if anyone takes the time to look at the FACTS written in the actual voting records of the congress and senate.
And all you guys that talk about the 1000 dead, please volunteer either your time or resources to support the thousands more wounded that need assistance now. Put up or spare me and many others in the military your fradulant tears.

[BillyIdaho]

It took 30 years for people who were upset about John Kerry winning these medals to save up enough money to run ads vocalizing their positions?

Sounds credible to me, and everyone else (not).

Demeaning the awards veterans receive while in the line of fire, especially while we have men and women fighting for us with these medals often as their sole physical recognition is repugnant.

Check out the latest electoral college count: "Our latest Electoral College projection stands at Kerry 223 Bush 183."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm

I see where the popular vote is a dead heat, but we know that doesn't matter, right?

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicides (which total 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of the fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

Gee I think we are already at war with Mexico

Here is the WMD Dumb Ass
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/

VOTE COMMIE VOTE KERRY

yep, you're right once again, those are WMDs. you're right and the rest of the country is wrong. i should have figured.

[BillyIdaho]

BTW: This "lefty" volunteered to go to Iraq to look for weapons of mass destruction. I wanted to see them with my own eyes.
I have been a 54B for 10 years.

Unfortunatley, the Chemical Recon unit (704th, Arden Hills Mn) I was assigned to was NEVER EVEN SENT OVERSEAS TO LOOK FOR WMD's. Hmmmm...no wonder nothing has been found.

I served 6 mos stateside last spring/summer, though.
My brother was activated as well. Actually, he has been (involuntarilly) activated TWICE for this fiasco since Jan 2003.
His family is now broken up as a result.

I took a significant pay cut to come out of the IRR to serve an active duty tour, against my wifes and families wishes.

Any of you Bush fans do anything similar?

I am NOT talking about anyone ALREADY serving on active duty (done that too)...anyone else drop what they were doing (911 restoration was one of the things I "dropped"), take a pay cut, and pick up a rifle?

I'll even open it up a bit...any of you sign one of your kids up for the service since Iraq went hot? (I don't have a kid old enough, so no, I did not do this.)

Please hurry and reply, because I am holding my breath...

[BillyIdaho]

The headline from Strombergs WMD link:

"Bomb said to hold
deadly sarin gas
explodes in Iraq
‘Small dispersal’ occurs
but no serious injuries,
U.S. military reports"


WOW! Glad we invaded that country to find that!

I feel safer now!!!

I'll grant you that they found a Weapon, but where is the Mass Destruction part?

Get a grip...

[island911]

Originally posted by BillyIdaho
It took 30 years for people who were upset about John Kerry winning these medals to save up enough money to run ads vocalizing their positions?

Sounds credible to me, and everyone else (not).. . .

When Kerry first took center-stage (circa 1970) These guys, no doubt where pissed about Kerrys anit-war stance. . .being labeled as baby-killers, and buchering murderers.
No doubt Kerry c1970 visability led everyone of those Swifty's to remember exacty what went down during those few Kerrry-months in Vietnam.

NOW, Kerry & Edwards have brought Kerry's Vietnam issue into the forefront of a run for POTUS.

Originally drawled by John Edwards

If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him

[BillyIdaho]

And why was it never brought up when he ran for US Senator, what, four times?

I agree that Kerry brought up his service in Vietnam - a valid qualification for commander in chief to have empathy for those serving in hostile situations based upon experience. Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS. Hence the need for attack ads orchestrated by the Bush campaign.

Also, yes, he (kerry)pissed a lot of people in 1970...why so long to vent?
They just let these "lies" sit for 30 years? C'mon...what integrity!

Anyone disputing his Silver Star, his highest award, and the nations third highest?

[island911]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Mul,

Couldn't agree more...simple to see if anyone takes the time to look at the FACTS written in the actual voting records of the congress and senate.
And all you guys that talk about the 1000 dead, please volunteer either your time or resources to support the thousands more wounded that need assistance now. Put up or spare me and many others in the military your fradulant tears.

"fradulant tears" . . .that is exactly what gets me about some of the people here, holding up the dead, and feigning tears, all for their political position.

As I've said before, our troops in Iraq have done a better job at not gettng killed than the driver on the roads of America.

Near here, there is a big Mountain, that climbers often need to be rescued from. . .it's dangerous work, and often the rescuers get killed. So, I supposes the rescuers should be stopped.

edit: del

[island911]

"he ran for US Senator"

A State senate run is hardly the same as a run for CiC. Furthermore, Kerry did not likely push his war record, being that those times, WAR was not something people wanted to hear about.

"Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS."

You're kidding right!? Bush has 3 years experience fighting our newest threat (terrorism) and you compare that to Kerrys 4 months of swift-boat duty!?



"They just let these "lies" sit for 30 years? C'mon...what integrity!"Do you mean Kerry? . .Kerry tried to promulgate lies for 30 years . .. the other vets got to see Kerrys stories change with time. . ."in Cambodia, seared, seared in my memory" to "near Camboia" . .."President Nixion sent me" to "Uhhh-huh-huh--uhhh."

"Anyone disputing his Silver Star, his highest award, and the nations third highest?" I don't understand it. What is the full story? We know that he lobbied hard for medals.

[928ram]

And why was it never brought up when he ran for US Senator, what, four times?

Could it be because he was running for Senate in MA and these guys aren't residents there?? Surely you don't think that a resident of one state has the right to influence the choices of another do you?
These SBV guys feel that Kerry isn't fit to be president based on what they feel are his actions in Viet Nam and distortions since; the difference is that he's now running for an office which affects them directly, thus they say their piece now. ( Not that I feel they or Kerry is being 100% truthful; I suspect the real truth lies somewhere in between.)

[928ram]

I'll even open it up a bit...any of you sign one of your kids up for the service since Iraq went hot? (I don't have a kid old enough, so no, I did not do this.)

Well Michael Moore, do you condone and support people forcing their sons and daughters to follow only the path to the future that is picked by the parents????
Last I heard it was the choice of the individual to sign up for the military, or go to college, or work at McD's.
Most parents will support the path that their child has chosen to take in life whether they have apprehensions about it or not.
Have you already instructed your children about what they have to be when they grow up??

[BillyIdaho]

"Experience Bush DOES NOT POSSESS."

"You're kidding right!? Bush has 3 years experience fighting our newest threat (terrorism) and you compare that to Kerrys 4 months of swift-boat duty!?"

Bush has been under enemy fire for 3 years?
Missed that headline. Please elaborate!
Please show me where he showed some courage under fire.
The closest he came to being under fire was 9/11, and he retreated to AF1. Kerry has experience under fire, experience Bush does not posses. Show me where I am wrong, please!

So US Senators from other states do not influence/create policy for other states in this country? So they were ok with him having ill-gotten medals when he was "just" a US Senator. Ok, makes perfect sense! Actually, several of the SBV supported Kerry as a hero as recently as last year.

PAC's from outside their home state never take interest in State seats for US Congress/Senate in other states and spend money trying to influence the vote?
Please elaborate!

You are right - the new spin is a result of the POTUS run. Nothing new here.

The reality is, if the SBV were knee deep in integrity, they would have protested from day one. They didn't. I call BS.

He earned the medals. Deal with the fact Bush didn't step up for Vietnam, and did exactly what his track record indicated he would on 9/11 - avoid any possibility of doing anything noble/brave, and retreated to AF1 when it was remotely possible he "could" have been in danger. He's not a "look danger" in the eye kind of guy -
Kerry is and has a Silver Star to prove it, as well as other medals.

[BillyIdaho]

I have instructed my son that it is honorable to serve your country.

He intends on attending West Point. He already has a recomendation. He is 11.

My mother "signed up" my little Brother when he was 17 - he wanted to join the military, but could not without mom's signature. Not condoning anyone being forced into the military.
Boy, you Republicans are really in favor of twisting stuff...wow.

He subsequently serving in Panama, and Gulf War 1.
All three of her sons served at the same time.

Wow, now I am Michael Moore. Good stuff! Thanks for the compliment!

[928ram]

SO what you are saying is that you feel that it is your right to travel to say Nebraska and tell them who they should and shouldn't vote for? On what basis? You know what's better for them than they do? From your post about signing others into military service, I can only assume that you think that you do.

As for Kerry's seat as a senator from MA, I don't think it would be to much of a stretch to think that were it not Kerry in that seat it would be another ultra-liberal; afterall it's the way that they tend to vote there.

The real reality is; if Kerry were knee deep in integrity, he would have told the truth from day one. He didn't. I call BS too. That and the fact that he's put so much campaign influence on one 4 month stint, rather that 20 years of where the real truth about the real Kerry lies.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by island911


"Anyone disputing his Silver Star, his highest award, and the nations third highest?" I don't understand it. What is the full story? We know that he lobbied hard for medals.

I don't know what the full story is either. I May have some understanding of it in general thought.

In the mid "80s I was working in a boat yard with about 100 small boats. Some of those boats were only under power a couple of times a season. Not because the boat couldn't function. but because they were an ongoing drinking party. It was a safe, free, isolated, no holds bared, floating social scene.
During the week I'd be hanging with some owners while doing my wrench thing on these boats. One guy was a lawyer who was animated, funny, and interesting in the way he would trade win-loss cases with other lawyers on the marina telephones in the privacy of us wrenches. So sometimes we would talk about his time in 'Nam as a military lawyer. He would ferry around with medical and food goods. His convoy was labled with large insigna denoting it's purpose, which was to offer help to Everyone. Even the N Cong waited for a visit to villages that supported them. Nobody wanted to target his convoy. WTF free food, meds, etc all given away without question. His lawyer work involved giving away medals.. "Ok guys. Who needs a medal this month?" All you had to do is put together a senario and have a witness and he would sign off, no problem. He didn't care about trial testomony. He only cared about giving away anything the soldiers wanted.

I'm not demeaning any recognition due to valor at all. I'm only stating that if you really wanted a medal that it wasn't hard to get one when my lawyer friend was around.

So when I see a guy with Kerry's profile wearing a Silver Star I have to sit back and think about the circumstances and the person, especially if he's boasting about it. I have Never met or hung with "Nam friends who have ever boasted about medals.. Actually they almost Never talk to civilians about what happened over there. If the do talk it's because they trust you to Maybe understand them personally, not to understand what happened.

Tuck Kerry.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Mul,

Couldn't agree more...

I appreciate your service soldier. You have no idea (well maybe you do) of the love and affection my Conservative Christian brothers and sisters have for you and your fellow soldiers. You are continuously prayed for, that God keep you safe and that the Iraqi people get an opportunity at freedom.

Thanks!

May the Lord watch over you and yours.

[928ram]

Wow, now I am Michael Moore. Good stuff! Thanks for the compliment!

How that could be a compliment I'm unsure, but if you are comfortable with it then more(Moore) power to ya.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Mulholland
Your people spat on our Vietnam vets for their homecoming. You people have never met a dictatorship that you didn't try to "understand."...You people give not ***** one for the military and you never have.

Goodness, someone's sure getting hysterical.

First, it's not clear that anyone ever was 'spat on' coming home from Vietnam. It's an urban legend.

Second, some of us 'lefties' served our country.

Third, many dictatorships have been supported by the 'right.' Can you name one supported by the 'left?'

I don't know what you're smoking/reading, but I met Ron Kovic and know plenty of other fellow Viet-era vets you'd consider on the 'left' and they care about the country they served and the people they served with. And they think the 'right' is wrong.

[speeder]

So now it comes out: Military lawyers cruised around on boats in Viet Nam asking people, "Who wants a medal this month"?? And all anyone needed was 3 and they could go home?

Well, fock me running Ronnie!! You'd better get on the phone w/ the Bush campaign, I smell a "lifestyle upgrade" coming your way in the near future.

Tell us the truth, you've worked with a lot of solvent-based materials over the years, haven't you?

[BillyIdaho]

This "Lefty" is still holding his breath waiting to hear from a "Righty" who dropped what he was doing last year in an attempt to go to Iraq.
If you subscibe to Mulholland's point of view, the "Righty's" are the only Patriots and/or people who support the troops. Very, very, wrong - in fact it is a lie.


In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to find out that he volunteered to go to Iraq, as gung ho as he is.

So...Did you do your Patriotic duty Mulholland, and answer the call to arms last year? If you were to old or couldn't for health reasons, or some other legitimate reason, that's cool. Not everyone CAN serve. Of course you could even choose NOT to serve, it just seems based upon everything I have ever read that you have written, you would be exactly the type of guy who would go, if he could.

Pay cuts, and angry families don't count as reasons for not volunteering, BTW. Didn't stop me volunteering for EITHER Gulf War, so If that's your excuse, it sucks.