The link is to a scanned copy of his Silver Star citation. While it is Kerry's (he earned it after all), it is an unbiased source (the government, back in 1969). Dude, you're weird.

Someone screwed up on the Kerry/Kerrey thing. I put that in the same basket as Bush announcing that terrorism had gone down (when there was in fact a cock-up in the numbers and it had gone up). Basically, no harm, no foul.

Back to the original issue - you continue to assert that Kerry chose a cowardly option in Vietnam, without once acknowledging that he may, in fact, have acted bravely over there.

Actually, that's a good question... and a good test of your ability to conduct unbiased, rational thought. Did Kerry act bravely in Vietnam at any time?

Can you acknowledge a single positive trait of the man?

He is a liar and that is all that counts...If we cannot trust him to tell the truth now, why should we trust him when he holds the office of the President?

To answer your question...He very well may have had a moment of bravery...But far from what real war-heros accomplished. His self-aggrandizing proclamations only further diminishe any heroism he may have displayed.

Benedict Arnold was a REAL war-hero...Benedict Arnold was a TRAITOR.

I was kinda hoping you'd manage an unconditional statement affirming Kerry on some aspect that we would all consider a positive. Like this (in no particular order):

I think George W Bush is doing the right thing by denouncing 527s, and is doing the right thing by trying to distance himself from negative campaigning. I also think he would be a great guy to meet at a BBQ. I admire his faith in God, and believe that he acts in what he considers to be the best interests of America, based on his own belief structures, both non-religious and, to a modest extent, religious. Further, I admire his ability to simplify issues. I may not agree with his viewpoints in a number of these respects, but I understand why he holds them.

Your turn - go nuts.

But Cam...whay are there multiple Silver Star citations..some written in the '80s? If this has been rewritten, how do we know they all have not been tampered with?

Can you please link to them - I spent 10 mins earlier today trying to find the ones you referred to and I couldn't find any citations (other than that one).

I gotta warn you - I'm starting from the position that there is an innocent explanation - he did get a Silver Star in 1969, and it lists in a 1969 citation what he did to get it.

Ok. But I can only think of one positive. I think Kerry's second heiress wife's deceased husband's family business makes the best ketchup in the world.
How is that?

Like Mul's post to follow, a pretty good indication to the world (and yourself if you looked at it) that you are irretrievably biased.

Just click on the link to Kerry's webpage you referred to earlier in the thread....look at page 2.

You expect too much Cam. You guys that support Kerry have been posting here for months and the only things that you have come up with is that "he was in Vietnam" and that he "is not Bush." How can you expect those of us who don't support him to do better?

He thinks very carefully about the issues, forming deliberate opinions. Moreover, he continues to reflect on them and will change them if he believes they are no longer correct. He would be a good guy to sit next to at a dinner party. He has worn his heart on his sleeve, acting in a way he thought was right. He has a strong social conscience and has a belief in equality. He speaks well.

He has demonstrated considerable determination in pursuing his political career for over 30 years.

And he rides a road bike ;)

It seems to me that he flip flops and his only method of decision making is what he think the particular audience wants to hear...

I think he has no conscience and makes his decisions based on political expediency alone.

And he has demonstrated that he is too lazy to get a real job for 30 years...then takes his pay, but rarely shows up to vote.

I guess he has nice hair (if you like the '70s look...but he needs a couple gold chains and a liesure suit to complete the look.

ANd those attributes make him somehow different from the opposition? Well, maybe the hair.......

Bush flip flops too, for example his attempt to cut veterans pay and benefits after going to war in iraq.

I am sure if not for the outrage that errupted over that fiasco bush would have preferred to stay the course but even your ideological hero must flip flop when neccessary.

No, it is just hard to acknowledge them as strengths.

I thought he rides a Mt Bike, but doesn't always speak so well. . . .waita min.. .

.. . Holy crap! . . your talking about Kerry.:eek:

Well, right up to the speaking well part, GW has Kerry beat. IMO.

but hey, I can throw out something positive about the potential "President Kerry"

As President, Kerry would deliver the same effectivity that he brought to the Senate. He will support the little guy, the worker, not as the excedingly wealthy man he is, but rather as a democrat.

So in other word, President Kerry will do absolutly nothing. ..nadda. . zillch. . .zip .. . and thats not so bad. . . .unless of course, we have another national emergency.

How'd I do? ;)

you did pretty good.. but you forgot to allow for his brand of hillary madical care. If he wins and some more dem power comes to the hill Kerrycare will be a nightmare in waiting. He already has a written plan and committee that has given out some planned info.

Well, bush did nothing during and after the worse national emergency in my lifetime (well, if you don't count hiding in a nuke bunker for almost 24 hours) but eventually the guys who really run the show in washington saw the opportunity to attack our civil liberties and iraq.

That being said I will be happy to take my chances with kerry.

Well done...

Yeah, I also expected to see the president in the air flying a fighter jet just like in the movie "Independence Day.".....not

No wonder you Dems believe Kerry's fabricated war stories...you watch far too many cartoons on Saturday morning..

I'm back. I've had a whole weekend to think about how I could criticise Kerry.

I mean, the guy is prone to embellishing stories, and his determination in his political career may have led him to do things which he now finds hard to justify. His "flip flopping" is (sort of) a problem, as he rarely is able to convey WHY he has done it (often with due consideration and for good reasons).

He speaks well, but is not a dynamic speaker. In his time in the Senate, he did not take as much advantage of opportunities as he could.

Finally, banking his presidential campaign on his Vietnam service was never a good strategy.

Your turn again

This time, try to say something negative about Bush (there is HEAPS of real estate to choose from). Show how you really feel about him.

Because you were miserable failures at saying positive stuff about Kerry :rolleyes:.

Ok Cam, I agree on your assessment of Kerry's faults. I honestly made an effort to find something positive to say about Kerry, but simply could not come up with a single thing that I like. Ok, after much thought....here's one for you. Bush mispronounces words now and then that should not be difficult for a man of his education.

Bush bends to the left for political expediency...Other than that he is clean as a whistle.

Cannot say anything positive about Kerry because he is a liar and everything he says is tainted by that deception...from his fathering skills, to his "war-hero" status, to his war-criminal status, to his voting record and most recently to his ignoble attack of veterans right to free-speech.

All he has to do to shut us hate-filled Republicans up is to release his military records...Just think of it...The whole Republican party and the Swift Boat vets would be made to look like total fools.

It would be a total check-mate and vindication of his whole campaign...I mean, he should be proud of his record and that pride should manifest itself in wearing his military record as proudly as he does his recycled medals.

I find your difficulties in finding nice things to say about Kerry, and the blanket approval of Bush, quite telling.

Its not rational.

Approximately half of your population would choose one candidate over the other because of either positive or negative traits - you aren't empathising with any of the other half even to one small degree.

Hey, I had the best positive stuff to say about Kerry. :)

Uhm, well . ..okay. . something -

1) Bush is terrible at handling the big media. They want juicy stories . . .Bush's "plain-speak" just is no fun. (and often awkward, of course)

2) He should be handling the cold message, that we will likely get hit hard again, differently. (we can handle the truth.)

3) He should have project more unstable-cowboy-finger-on-the-button-lunitic right after 9/11 (sure he got Pakistan and Lybia in line. .. but Iran, N.Korea ...he blinked)

4) he should stop scaring the anti-religious crowd, with his references to god and religion. (that crowd spooks easier that bunnys at a dog-track)

So you can add to, Kerry's "positives". . . he is very 'religious-non-threatening."


. . .Kerry is as much of a 'religious threat' as this guy.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1093841125.gif

Yeah, calling Kerry ineffectual seemed like the biggest compliment in the world ;)

I gotta say Island, if you weren't such a firm believer in the enduring and imminent threat of terrorism to the USA, I reckon you'd find this whole conversation a lot harder.

But you can not deny that Kerry is ineffectual. Just look at his political record. (the reason Kerry wanted everyone to look at his Vietnam daze.)

" imminent threat " . . ..yep, I would have a tough time with all of this if I didn't see thousands of men women and children get killed in the second attack on the WTC. . . Another plane hitting the Pentagon. . . . Another plane full of passengers who decided enough of this $hit. . .these guys want to kill us and more --LET'S ROLL!

Considering where that 4th plane was headed, I am so thankful for those passengers who decided against the sucker position of "now is not the tiiiime . . .let's try diplomacy when we land. . .it will all be okay if we just sit on our hands".

Invading Iraq didn't do squat to change US security against internal terrorist attacks.

If protecting the US is your goal, surely you wonder WTF Iraq needed to be invaded.

No but changing US security against internal terrorist attacks changed US security against internal terrorist attacks....The Patriot Act seems to have been very helpful.

It's a pretty blunt instrument, but I guess it has its place. I could have done better ;)

You also could of implemented the Patriot Act without invading Iraq. Oh wait, you did.

Saddam -- thumbing his nose at the UN inspectors for how many years!?
Supporting any efforts to exterminate Jews. Paying surviving families for their sons and daughters to strap on explosive vests.
Taking pot-shoots at our fighters patrolling the no-fly zone.

and not exactly "with us". . .if ya know what I mean.

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Picture...saddam-911.jpg

Yep, I think our kicking his ass did help our security. Perhaps, perhaps not, immediately. . . but a sound move for the future, for sure.

I reckon he was on the way out in any case - the cracks were clearly there.

My opinion only, and I'm not going to debate it - it is completely unproveable in either direction and, since you already invaded and deposed him, we'll never know

"I am this full of crap"

Mul :mad: that IS RIDICULOUS!

You have got to stop posting LIES like that!

Kerry is MUCH MORE full of crap, than that! . . .AND YOU KNOW IT! :cool:

touché, Cam. :D

Come on, island, give Kerry at least a little slack... :D













so he can hang himself

MUL,
Great poster, two things hurt....pain.....and the truth..............