How important is $$ in career?

[84porsche]

How do you know if you are making enough money? I am 1 year out of school and I don't know how much to chalk up to experience and when to say I need more or I need to gain more either experience wise or $ wise.

[widebody911]

Walk into your boss's office, tell him you want more money or you're leaving. That's your answer.

Be sure to tell us how it goes.

Back in the Roaring 90's (in the Clinton-era good times ) I actually got away with this stunt a couple times. Now I'd be charged with 2nd degree manslaughter because my boss would die laughing...

[Superman]

I have a 19 year-old daughter who is reminding me of the lean times we all experience at that age. No education to speak of, no experience to speak of, no connections, etc. So, she is currently tolerating a string of low-pay, high-inconvenience jobs. You know, the wonderful "service" jobs the republicans are so proud of creating. Retail, food service, etc.

And before some of you chime in and pretend those are good jobs, she might get called in to work three hours on a weekday afternoon. At minimum wage, that's somewhere near $20 of pre-tax earnings, in exchange for giving up an afternoon. Her weekend shifts are at night. So, a six-hour shift gets her forty bucks. That's the price of one of her weekend evenings. I'd like to see a show of hands, all those who would be willing to sell one of their weekend nights for forty dollars.

Well anyway, it gets better. You'll be okay. You'll have to decide on your own how much money you want. But I will give you this bit of personal advice:

1) Those high-poverty years in our early twenties usually remain as the most pleasant memories we have. We remember that time in our lives more fondly than any other.

2) Studies regularly show that rich people are not more happy than poor people. In fact, a slight negative correlation is usually the finding. That is, the richer you are, the less happy.

[vash]

this day and age, i would give up a few bucks for job security.

[rvanderpyl]

Depending on your field there are published reports of wage ranges paid. You can look for some of those to see if you are in an appropriate bracket. On the other hand wages can vary highly depending on the area you live. So it may be easier to just talk to some old classmates and see how they are doing, look at job sites and ads to see the offered wage ranges. Many colleges and universitys have placement departments that can help with what typical salarys are, and what to expect within a few years.

[dd74]

84: what was your major in college?

[tabs]

Well since I never held a real job....I can't offer any advice...

However my Daddy always said, "when you go to work, your really there working for your own interests and nobody elses. What you do with your money after you earn it is what is most important. If for example you had 1,000,000 in the bank, it sure would be easier to go to work everyday knowing you could tell them to where to get off when ever you wanted to."

I gues what Daddy was saying money in the bank gives you independence...

[84porsche]

Originally posted by dd74
84: what was your major in college?

My major is accounting but I work right now for a private company. I work for good people but I don't know if I am in the right place for career advancement and future opportunities. I am obviously getting paid but all my college friends are working for the CPA firms (suicide hours/no OT) where I leave at 5 and leave my work at work. So I am troubled deciding what is better. These guys obviously make more but I can't increase my salary significantly and I can't afford a house unless I do something whether it be find another job or get more schooling or professional credentials such as CPA, MBA etc. So which is better.

[tabs]

Your friends are being paid for the extra burden they are assuming...Will the type of experience you are gaining in this job lead you to bigger and better things...if not then use the oppturnity to advance your education while you are in a stable situation. At that time you can leave, for greener pastures.

Remember you are always working for yourself and nobody else..it's how much money you can amass at the end of the day thats important... when you too old or infirm to work any longer...then you are going to need the buks to pay for the old folks home...

[dd74]

If you're going for your MBA, you want the least stressful job, and it sounds like you have it now. Besides which, if these people are good to you and the hours aren't, as you put it, "suicide hours," then you're in a good spot. You might be in even a better spot. Sure, you could be getting better money, but is it worth the higher stress, and the possibility that you won't advance from a stressful situation? Nah!

Will the people you work for let you come out to Willow Springs for Wednesday OTRs? If yes, then you should definitely keep the job you have now.

[tabs]

do you want that old folks home to be in downtown Anaheim or somplace like a beach in Hawaii. Now me I'm stuck in this trailer in downtown Las Vegas...and the AC isn't too realiable either...

[bigrubberjeep]

84 Porsche - Don't worry so much right now, just 1 year out of school is not much experience in the feild, you seem like a young guy from meeting you last week. If you are living OK, paying bills on time and not going without, beleive me, your not doing too bad. The benefit of having "luxury" hours is that you can take your time and talk to people at other locations. You might even find one with the perks of your current job and higher pay, but beleive me, they will want someone with 2-5 years experience and with a good track record (stays at a job)

Another thing to concider is a side busness, your young, you have time to invest in other ventures.

[mikester]

I would say that since you're in Anahiem you have a very good opportunity believe it or not. Check out Chapman University as they have some very good adult ed programs (MBA and such) for you to advance your education if you wanted too.

LEt me tell you from my experience. For the last 7 years I worked my tail off for a local Cable Company. I travelled all over the country I did not get overtime but I did get a TON of experience in what I feel was a pretty short time. I also gained a lot of life experience that I feel is very valuable too of course. Last October I took another job working for someone else entirely - a completely difference business model.

The Government.

Now - I work 7-4 and I'm continuing my education two nights a week. I got my experience level up and my resume decorated at the last job and that helped me get this job where I truely feel that my life is mine.

That's what counts - the balance in benefits from work (salary , etc) vs the benefits from time off.

The last job was tough, I was on call all the time and got called at all hours of the night. The new job isn't like that at all and I make more (slightly). The benefits (medical and such) aren't QUITE as good but they are close enough.

Only you can answer this question really.

[MotoSook]

When I was fresh out of college, I lived in an apartment by myself, three states from my childhood friends and from my family. It was great. The routine was: work, work late, go home but stop in at the local pub for beers, pool and a burger (maybe a babe), go crash after the bar closes, go back to work.

I put in a lot of hours and was usually in the office on Saturday afternoons, which was a good thing because my boss was usually there. I got lots of merit points and got a 10% payraise w/in 6 months. I learned a lot and they gave me lots of trust and responsibility! Left the company after my new position in the post merger company didn't leave me time to for bars, pool, burgers and babes (not even a little bit)...landed better jobs after that...now I am working my butt off again, but I'm stretched between personal life and work. I'd take a 20% pay cut to work strickly 40 hours and not stress when I get home. But today's professional environment demands that you work 2-3 times what you are paid...profits, profits, profits!

The point...go get the job that pays well and teaches you a lot. Sacrificing your personal time when you're young is acceptable in my mind. But don't let it spill into your mid-years....try....try very hard. Ask yourself if you want to be that 40+ year old guy in the cube next to you when you are 40+ yrs old (no offense to the 40+ yr old dudes)....most decisions come easier when you are face to face with your future...it's easy to motivate yourself if you look down the road far enough. There were guys in their 50's doing what I was doing when I was 2 years out of college....

Your friends working late hours for big firms may be learning something you are not. With their credentials, they may be able go further than you...but then I don't know your case exactly..you will have to compare your position to your buddies'. Good luck.

[GettinHeadStuds]

Chris, you had a similiar question a few months ago...I responded with "go talk to some older generation CPAs and hear what they have to say." I did this last year to get an idea of what path I want to take for my ACTG career. It really depends what you want to do in the future.

Assuming you'll stay in ACTG for life, I'd say having Big Four experience is pretty important for your resume/reputatio. The only problem is if you're a rookie at a big four firm you'll be auditing cash accounts for two years (yippe ****** skippy) and sleeping at the hotel across the street from the office for your 3 hours of sleep. On the other end, smaller firms don't get jack for clients. Smith and Smith CPA firm isn't going to pull in MGM, Addidas, or Tivo. It'll take you a lot longer to learn what you need to learn.*

*Note: I interviewed over 10 CPAs and this was the general concensus among that group, not just my opinion.

Somewhere in between are the second tear firms...BDO, Moss, Grant. These have the best of both worlds and eventually were the firms I targeted. I still have ****y suicide hours, avg 65 right now, but I'm doing tax returns start to finish, for really good companies...Haynes Manual for example.

Back to you...

You've gotta figure out where you want to go with your career. You're in a good position to make a move either way.

PM if you wanna talk more.

P.S. After five years at a First or second tear firm, you're a manager with a CPA and making 6 figures. Many have told me that's the best time to stay in the field or get out.

[id10t]

If your bills are paid, you aren't in cc debt, and you can put away money for retirement (save early - its easier), p-car enjoyment, downpayment on a house, etc. then happiness at work and at the end of work are more important than more money, imho.

I'm struggling, ending up in a little CC debt, but my wife isn't making a paycheck - she's taking care of our 2 kids (4 and 8 months) which I think is far more important that what she could be making at a job.

[Zeke]

Experienced and accomplished 'bookkeepers' make 60K in Orange County. Got acouple of them in the family. 40 hr. weeks except when the monthlys and quartarlys are due.

Put some time in. You might find you want to move over into management, or even marketing. Let it flow until you get some time with the company.

The accounting major whizkids I used to employ part time are on their 3rd and 4th jobs at age 35 and making huge money. Not all are punching numbers, but they can if need be and that works big time in the boardroom.

After all, that's the only reason a company exists is to produce a profit according to many MBA's. Every maesurement is made on a scale of dollars and cents. Too bad, really.

So, the accountant is the cornerstone.

[vanwyk4257]

I work as a commercial lender for a major midwest bank, and my job gives me opportunity to interact with many accountants, bookkeepers and CPA's. If you want my .02 worth, I would recommend considering the CPA route. Yes, you will have to work your tail off from December to April, and perhaps the rest of the year depending on the type of firm you work for, but you will make much more money with the CPA credentials than you will without. The way I look at it is do I want to work my butt off while I'm young so I can retire while I'm still young enough to travel, be active and really enjoy myself? Heck yes!!! To me it's worth having a stressful career to know that when I retire I will be able to do so comfortably. You need to decide what's more important to you personally, having a 9-5 job that is fairly stress free, or having a career that gives you more opportunity. To paraphrase what I think Souk was saying, you get out what you put in. I'm one of the youngest guys doing what I do, but I'm also one of the best because I work harder and smarter. The bottom line is, whatever you do, put 110% into it and you'll do well. Good luck to you!

[turbo6bar]

Hehe, 84porsche, welcome to the real world.

I agree with mikester and zeke. Give it more time, and decide for yourself. Only you can answer that question.

Every person is different. Long hours to one person is slow for another person. Oh, and I also agree with BRJ. Take chances now, while you're young.
best of luck to you,
Jurgen

[Zeke]

Originally posted by vanwyk4257
To me it's worth having a stressful career to know that when I retire I will be able to do so comfortably. You need to decide what's more important to you personally, having a 9-5 job that is fairly stress free, or having a career that gives you more opportunity.

A good philosophy. But, some things to consider: Your thoughts on when to retire and what to do may change over the years. Your kids may never know you; you will get to know theirs better. You may not live that long.

The late Ray Charles said, "If I thought I'd ever live to be this old, I would have taken better care of myself when I was young."

A young man from Long Beach was killed while climbing at 13,000 ft. this week. He was 31 and working as an attorney up in LA for a big firm. His mother said of him, "He lived more in 31 years than most live in a lifetime."

I guess they both did a little livin' for the moment.