Out of Control

[tabs]

No I don't mean me and my casino buffet habits I mean the world situation. The danger in the world is if events get out of control and become unmanagable, then anything can happen. Kennedy during the Cuban Missle Crisis didn't let events over take him, he methodically dealt with each issue taking time to think his course of action through...and by keeping a short leash on his military leadership, who was prone to take direct military action. which in deep hindsight would have resulted in WW3.


At present the fires that are burning most brightly are and can spin out of control.

1. Crisis in the media...the Dan Rather fiasco very well could bring the hegemony that the media has enjoyed since the demise of Richard Nixon in 1974 to an end... The media will be put in a sense in it's place..and will operate in a much less arrogant manner.

2. Crisis in Irwreck....The CIA report that the prognosis in Irwreck is bleak....events are likely to stay pretty grim as the best case scenario....the US can't afford to pull out for 4 main reasons:

A. loss of face in the Islamic world..we will have proven Osama right that America is weak

B. Further instability in Irwreck would creat a vacume of powe,r in which the jihadists would take full advantage of.

C. The world can ill afford such large oil reserves to fall into instabilty

D. If Irwreck falls into, out and out chaos then other regimes in the area become at risk

3. Crisis in American Politics... The USA is more polarized than at anyother time since the American Civil War. In paticular the Democrats being out of power are doing everything they can to regain power even to the detriment of the Nation (obvious fragmentation of the poitical process only gives aid to our enemies)

4. Continuing Crisis of Terrorism or deepening of the clash of Civilizations...with the lax and unaccountable nuclear weapon situation in Russia any weapon in the hands of the Jihadist would be used as a first strike weapon. further increasing hostility towards the USA and west further increases world instabilty......the primary damage would be to the world economy and it's financial system

5. Crisis in Nuclear Proliferation...North Korea and Iran are unpredictable actors....further if Iran makes the Bomb how long will it be before other nations in the ME have one as well, and with their track record of instability there is a high likely hood that one will be used.

6. US Deficeit spending ...while necessary for the short term belie deeper fiscal problems in the long term ...the funding of SS and Medicare....such spending in the long term weakens the ability of the US economy to recover from any recessionary period.

7. Disaffection of long term Allies and the UN with regards to the US...while this disaffection has been developing since the end of the Cold War... it has deepened at the very time the US has shown a hint of distress and at a time when a solid front against terrorism should be shown

I think thats enough for now...I gotta check the Mail box to see if my trust fund check came.


.

[widebody911]

I was with you 'cept for the cheap shot In paticular the Democrats being out of power are doing everything they can to regain power even to the detriment of the Nation (obvious fragmentation of the poitical process only gives aid to our enemies)

I'm sure they're trying everything they can to 'regain power' just as much as the Republicans are doing everything they can to maintain it.

The difference is, there are some in the democrat camp that want to change the status quo and steer the ship in a different direction; the republicans seem to be goosestepping right along with Der Fuhrer.

The press is a joke; you need to see the movie "Outfoxed"

[tabs]

No president since JFK has tried to change the status quo.

[dd74]

Originally posted by tabs
I think thats enough for now...

I think you are correct.

[mattdavis11]

Clinton tried to change the status quo, and was also successful. It got lowered.

[tabs]

Remember Gays in the military...and Health Care by Hillary...Both Clinton fiascos...Clinton came to town with the notion he could change things.....and U see how far he got...for the next 7 years the only thing he did was defend against law suits and sit in the oval office getting blow jobs...

[yetidave]

"sit in the oval office getting blow jobs..."

You say it like it's a bad thing.

[speeder]

Originally posted by tabs
Remember Gays in the military...and Health Care by Hillary...Both Clinton fiascos...Clinton came to town with the notion he could change things.....and U see how far he got...for the next 7 years the only thing he did was defend against law suits and sit in the oval office getting blow jobs...

I'd cut off my left nut, (and both of yours), to go back to the days when Clinton was President.

You people are out of your minds, the economy is 1 part science and 3 parts religion. If people believe that times are good, they are, to a certain extent. A great leader like Clinton inspires optimism in people, even Republicans, where as a Bush must rule with fear.

It's like training a dog. One way gets you a great dog, (or country), the other way gets you what we've got, ie. "most divided since Civil War, world economy in peril, Allies abandoning us, etc.....

[woodman]

It seems to me that people in general believe that there is some sort of social or moral evolution occuring. That as time passes, "things are supposed to progressively get better". Now I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but clearly, recent and past history does not support that this is happening. In fact, I'd venture to say that entropy ( Inevitable and steady deterioration) that is evident in nature probably is evident on a social level. I'd say that very little has changed in the hearts of men since the beginning of time and that there will always be considerable conflict between groups of people. I won't even start with the "us and them" "good and evil" rhetoric. It doesn't work that way.

Societies wax and wane. What is it that keeps them going? What causes their demise? Clearly, the US is under a steadily increasing amount of attack. It's not likely to slow down anytime soon. It could get alot uglier.

Just a thought...

[Drago]

Originally posted by speeder
A great leader like Clinton inspires optimism in people, even Republicans, where as a Bush must rule with fear.

Come on Denis, everyone knows that "mining for fear makes the job easy".

Not right...just easy.

Originally posted by woodman
Just a thought...

...and a good one at that...

[Zeke]

All this country needs is a leader, John Kennedy style or FDR. To balance my picks, Reagan maybe. In the private sector, I'll nominate Roger Penske. You don't have to like the politics, that changes with elections. But, we're going nowhere, or even to hell, like the Woodman says, without a respected leader.

Trouble is, I don't think this country knows how to respect anything, much less the President of the United States. It would help if we could get someone that deserves respect, or at least can garner it.

Now, let's take Bush. He started out miserably because the election was a farce. 9/11 comes along and his ratings hit the ceiling, they were as good as any President's ratings in recent history. He couldn't keep that going, and that's where he failed as a leader. Jesus, he was handed popularity on a Fuchin' platter.

Doesn't matter what he did, he didn't sell it. Now, he's sunk forever, whether he wins again or not. Denis said he was going to vote for the Bush so that things would look so bad, the pendulum would swing hard to liberal in the backlash.

That's most likely what's going to happen if Bush prevails unless he wises up and becomes a leader and leads.

Many from the Democratic Party could have knocked the clown off. Gephart could have for sure. What the hell happened there? First a bigger clown, Dean, stinks up the show, and then like there was no other choice, Kerry takes off like a shot.

Somebody has got to start planning ahead and bringing forth some decent leadership material. In auto racing and other sports, they start 'em off young. In business, they groom 'em at Harvard and fine tune the product with an MBA. These are the people that are making the money and commanding the atttention (notice I fell short of saying respect).

Somewhere in the world of politics there has to be a scant few with potential to lead. The parites can't establish their agenda and send forth one of the better ones to do the job?

One might argue that Bush sacrificed his popularity and potiential for leadership in order to follow what he believed was the right course. If that happens to be the case, he just went about his agenda all wrong. This is the difference between a real leader and one stuck out front to lead.

Will anyone ever be able to bring any respect back to the office of President? If two movie actors are who have managed to do this to some extent as governors are evidence of what it might take, I suggest the grooming start now far back in the ranks.

In the meantime, as it has been oft quoted (parphrased here), We are our own worst enemy.

[woodman]

Awe, c'mon Zeke. That's a pretty bleak picture to paint. What Bush did in Iraq was inevitable. Even kErry confirmed in recent years that Iraq was a considerable threat and I heard him say that the president has the right to make a unilateral move if necessary. If Bush didn't make the move, it would have had to be done in the very near future by someone. Look at how Libya reacted, and Iran, and North Korea. It really shook them up. We must flex our muscles for the sake of self preservation. I fear most take it for granted that our Country, one that is the most succesful in the history of the world, is indestructable. That's the farce. The last election? That's a weak argument that it was a sham. How many times do the votes have to be counted?

I don't agree with the expansion of the governments role in taking care of everyone because they can't take care of themselves approach under Bush. But you bet that I sleep better at night knowing that he is doing as much as anyone can to protect the citizens he works for.

Kerry scares me as the president. Edwards a heartbeat away is laughable. THe only thing they seem to stand for is the unseating of the current administration (regime, as they call it). That's not leadership.

[campbellcj]

I think the big difference under "Slick Willie" is simply that we generally didn't think about the Government as much as we do now -- it's become an almost full-time obsession lately for cryin out loud.

And THAT is because Clinton was too busy entertaining the public with his extracurricular activities. To me, the Clinton era did seem like a pretty benign regime where nothing particularly good OR bad really happened. In fact, I am clearly no political historian, but it is very hard for me to recall anything significant that he actually "DID" while in office.

For better or worse, we all know that Dubya at least "DID" something during his first term.

Personally I agree with Tabs on several points, including the generalization that any single US leadership regime tends to effect little if any long-term, meaningful change. It is kind of sad, but our system is now too massive, too divided, and too risk-averse to accomplish much over a FOUR year period.

Any corporate management team in the private sector who accomplished as little as our political leadership would be canned in the first quarter or two!

[Aurel]

Tabs,

I recently found the website below which describes how the current chain of events is taking us directly to the path of WWIII...While I hope this bleak picture never materializes, I found the analysis was pretty accurate, and in line with your view of the situation.
Now, the question of knowing if world wars are being planned in advance by those who will benefit from them is an interesting one...

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

Aurel

[tabs]

What prompted me to begin this thread was my turning on the news on Thursday night for the lack of anything better to watch. When I started watching I had this feeling of being overwhelmed come over me, and I began to feel so pessimistic about the state of affairs in the world. It was as if there are more and more fires being lit and none of them are being resolved.

Cambell heres my take on recent history. In 1990 the US had just won the Cold War, it was 50 years of living under the gun of Nuclear Annilhation. Finally there was relief that it was over...So in 1992 the Country wanted to forget about world affairs and wanted to party. So we voted in Feel Good Willie. Meanwhile the world hadn't really changed...remember WTC 1993....

After Hilliary Care ...Willie really was hamstrung legislativily, the only things he did was through Executive Order. Those things are mostly under the radar, but are meaningfull none the less.

Then came 911 which shocked Americans back into reality after an 8 year party....


Gephardt only ran for Prez so he could collect his campaign funds warchest and retire...he'd had enough

The Democratic party was allready left by the time Dean came around...remember Pellossi became the Democrats Minority Whip in the House in 2002....So you knew right there that the Dems were going to run an ultra Liberal , that they had taken over the party.


The Best and the Brightest in this country basically don't want anything to do with Politics...who wants to be in the middle of a media **** storm...

I keep on looking at the history of Rome and comparing it to the USA and go....Hmmmmm

[tabs]

Accidental vs conspiracy as causes of events....that way to simplistic of a view...

Men seek power, they have agendas and make plans to achieve their goals...thing is there are many men vying for the same power and sometimes their plans collide...usually there is some unseen free radical event that sparks the conflict. To say that many of these men all agree on a common outcome is naive...for there are many countervailng forces to thwart their plans, and who is to say that they can agree among themselves? NO I don't believe in Big Unseen Hand Conspiracys....

[tabs]

Further it was Mao who said WW3 is going to be fought between the Industrialized North and the 3rd World South...sure looks like thats the way it is panning out...