1fastredsc,

Read this:

Hope and Help for Your Nerves
by Claire Weekes

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451167228/104-2339304-8916721?v=glance

For panic attacks, it works! The biggest lesson you learn from it is that when you feel it coming on, instead of tensing up in fear, which makes it worse, you learn to relax, imagine you're floating on a cloud, and let it pass . Sounds simplistic and it's much cheaper than drugs, sure, but I know for a fact it works.

I can't vouch for its effectiveness on general anxiety disorder you mentioned, but for panic attacks it cranks. Might take a few weeks to train yourself, but it does work.

For those of you who've taken zoloft, is it typical to feel like your head is "detached" and lightly dizzy all the time as a side effect?

Hey There-

Let me add myself to the list.

I;ve been there- actually just clawed my way out this past Spring. I never understood the mind/body connection could be so powerful. I was having all kinds of bad things happening. It seems so crazy to summarize what was a living hell into such a short time. What took me so long to diagnose it was that I am not a depressed person, in the sense that I am not down on myself or scared of social situations. What it really came from was not dealing with deaths and life challenges in a healthy way. I didn't see it coming.

1) It is true that medications work differently for eveyone. You may need to try a few to get it right. I started on Prozac (Fluoxitine) and Ativan. Prozac made me feel cranked out of my mind, uppers are bad for me. Switched that to Celexa. That supposedly makes some people tired, but for me its perfect, cause I was usually keyed up anyhow. Also, switched from Ativan to Clonopin. I HIGHLY recommend this for anxiety. It, like others have stated, is a much slower, consistent drug. Take it each night at bedtime, and you avoid the roller coaster feeling. I am weaning off of it right now, and it hasn't been too hard.

2) Meds are not magic. They help put you at ease, but this is only to help you deal with your demons. You will not get better without wanting to. Many people fail here. The drug is only a step towards health, you have to work at it. A good therapist seems like a waste of money until it starts working. Others have suggested books, also a good idea. Do EVERYTHING you can to get better.

3) All SSRI meds are slow acting. You won't get any relief for about 2 weeks, its slow. Just take them consistently, same time daily. And don't feel bad for taking meds. I was a very anti-drug guy. "Pride" is a silly reason to stop taking meds. Imagine a diabetic stopping his insulin. Its just as crucial for you to not stop your meds (unless your doc says to of course). Also, side effects do wear off over time. My parts felt funny for about a month, but then it was all good again. Worth the wait.

4) I started going for 30-45 minute walks every afternoon before dinner. Try this. You're not gonna want to throw yourself into some kind of crazy regimen. Walking is fun. It makes you take deep, cleansing breaths. You can think when you want to, and then concentrate on walking and breathing when you feel overwhelmed. If you feel stressed, put on your shoes and just start by walking around the block. You'll feel better.

The fact that you want to get better and are beginning to understand means that you will get better. When I sought help in May, I had no job, no prospects, I stayed inside all day, my car didn't work, and I was distant with friends and relatives. I didn't even have an appetite. Now I have a good job, I am close to everyone again, I feel good, and my car works ;) . Seriously, on occasion I still will feel a bit anxious, but its in a more normal way, not that horrible feeling you have right now.

You ARE sick. The good news is you'll get better if you do the right things. I wish this conversation happened long ago, it took me almost a year to understand why my heart was racing, I couldn't sleep, and I couldn't really accomplish anything. Feel free to PM me anytime if you have a question, I'll try to give you what I can. You're on the right track. Keep us updated.

EDIT- one more thing- be patient. You don't wake up one day fine. It just gets slightly better each day. Its a journey that I think has made me better equipped for the future.

zoloft can have those side effects...kind of speeded out too (so I'm told...I haven't taken it).

The other thing to remember is not only does it take time, you will back slide. Sometimes HARD. Due to a confluence of insane work and some personal issues, I crashed and burned last week. I had been really smooth for the last few months too...then I had a day as bad as ever. The good thing is I bounced back quicker, but still am not there, and the underlying issues are absolute killers. *sigh*

Wow, when some one needs a hand, you guys are there. You guys never fail to impress me in this venue.

Fastsc, good job asking, good luck with recovery. I have 16 years under my belt after loads of crap. It works after the step you just took.

I mentally broke last night, couldn't take it anymore. Went to the hospital and they gave me some really strong medicine for muscle relaxing, and another for psychosis/hysteria/anxiety. I'm going to see my regular physician today, let's see what the plan is now.

Be extremely careful with any SSRI drugs as the long term effects can be worse than the reason you started to take them for originally. My wife was on Paxil for 5 years or so, roughly 2,000 doses and suddenly started having panic attacks, parnoid episodes, increased depression and the lot. I would come home to find myself locked out of my own house for fear of things like home invasion. Both my drummers father and a good mechanic friend of mine committed suicide after taking Paxil. Once we realized it was the Paxil that was doing it to her we had to wean her off like it was heroin. After that she was sick with flue like symptoms for over a year. She is fine now, but somehow not the same person she was before. She has been in a place I don't choose to go. I mean I took acid in the day and I know it changed me forever but, SSRI drugs are very scary. Good luck, get help, and be very careful about what meds they might want to put you on.

This is a vicious cycle...Red SC you need to get into some kind of Psychological Therapy..to gain insight into what causes you to have these attacks..

Unfortuantely we have become an instant gratification society..we want it fixed and now....so we take meds to feel good about ourselves again....all that does is cover up the angst, struggle and pain of life...no one ever promised you that life would be easy....it is going through the roller coaster of life that you begin to have wisedom/knowledge of self...drugs keep you in a static place with youself being the perpetual victim to your own demons, because on drugs you learn nothing about dynamics of how and why of your personality... And Therapy is the only thing devise so far where one can unravel the BS and set your head staright again...and it doesn't mean getting rid of pain etc it means embracing the circumstances of your life...your rose garden...then you can venture forth in the world... and I can tell U from experience that if you work long enough and hard enough with yourself that you can come up over the ridge and discover yourself in Elysian fields...

I agree that therapy should play a role in ones healing. However, there are proven issues of chemical imbalances and difficiencies, which lead to and/or cause depression and the surrounding issues. I do not believe any amount of self help or therapy will fix these types of issues. It may help get a person through the event, but will not cure the event. I do not believe any amount of therapy will actually remove cancer, but it will help the patient get thru the challenges which having cancer brings on....

Well, the new med is wellbutrin xl. Let's see what this one does.

Took wellbutrin when I wanted to quit smoking. It may give you dizzy spells, and there is a concern about seizures. I have really bad experiences with psycho-meds and would recommend that you try look beyond them. Important is that you get into a regular routine, and that you sleep enough. One of the most powerful things to calm you down are yoga breathing exercises, for example alternate nostril breathing. You need a teacher for that.
Don't worry, bud, this is over soon, and you'll look back on it as a growth experience,

I tried to reply to your PM but your box is full. From what you've told us I REALLY think you need to be on a CNS depressent like Ativan, Xanax of better yet Klonopin. These work instantly and make it much easier to concentrate on getting better. My body never responded well to the SSRI's like Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Lexapro and Paxil although I take Lexapro as my anti-depressant to balance the Klonopin. Hope you feel better and clean out that PM box so I can reply to your question.

-Chris

It is critical that you find a good therapist to go with the meds. The meds just help open the door. I'd be happy to talk with you (not as a doctor of course, but just as a guy who 6 months ago was in your shoes). Call me if you want (just remember that I am eastern time and I go to bed after around midnight. Refer to yourself as 1fastredsc the first time, otherwise I won't know you :p

-Mark
617-599-0071

Thanks for the attention and replies, according to the doc, wellbutrin is not part of the ssri family. He seems to think now that since i've not done well with zoloft, paxil, celexa, or lexapro that this might do it. Even the xanax seems like it doesn't cut the mustard anymore. VERY, VERY, frustrated with this.

Cancer is a physical problem, Panic attacks are mental. Two different things. Therapy is not supposed or designed to cure cancer.

Self help...Dr Phil...is all BS

To sit down with a Psychologist with a PhD and have the desire to change and honesty to be truthfull with yourself, you will have results...it won't be in five minutes or at the end of Seinfeld but given time your circumstances will change. In that your completely wrong BB.

Now for some abstraction...does behavior change brain chemistry..or is it brain chemistry that dictates behavior...

I can see the use of meds to stabilize a situation, but it is not a panacea...an end onto itself....your substituting one demon for another dependency. The idea is to unshackle yourself and be free...To find your Elysian fields..

BTW...I am completely astonished at the number of people on this Board who live better through the use of modern Pharmacia....chemically....

Has it gotten to the point where you get depressed and the answer is to take a pill so you will feel better...Usually mood or feelings are telling you something that should be listened to...in the old days it was part of the survival mechanism..your feeling are not something that should be run away from by taking a pill.

And Rammey good for you....

Here is what a Therapist does for you

1. Your talking about how you feel is what eventually uncovers your true feelings and your truth of the matter.

2. The role of the Therapist is to keep the conversation focused and on track

3. The Therapist has one further role and that is allowing the conversation to be nothing but about you...that in a sense is like being able to look in the mirror and have the mirror talk back...objectivily.

I typically don't like taking meds for things, just so you know. It just seems that my mind is in this viscous cycle that doesn't want to stop, and even meds aren't doing the trick.
BTW, this really sucks, i can't shake this feeling of being dizzy all the time, not to mention that i am losing weight.

bupropion (wellbutrin) isn't an ssri, but it also isn't a benzo derivative. While you should trust your doctor (and see a PSYCHIATRIST, not your family doctor), for short-term control of symptoms (for instance attacks that send you to the hospital), benzos are an excellent first line of defense. I know all about the losing weight and dizzy. Add constant nasuea and inability to get more than 5 or 6 hours sleep and you've got a real fun existence. I'm suprised you don't have a benzo (klonopin or xanax) to go along with the wellbutrin.

And as others have said, the meds are a stop gap (although some times longer term) to get you stabilized. You *have* to work with a therapist to get at the root issues. There is something to be said about chemical imbalances, but imho that mostly makes you more susceptible to attacks...it is the underlying psychological dynamics that do the pushing.

That being said I'm not having a good 1.5 weeks, so at least you're not the only one...

I do have xanax "just in case", doesn't really cut the mustard like it used to but is ok. I'm seeing my first psychiatrist on monday. Let's see what happens, paying 200 out of pocket for first visit (no insurance):eek:. And to top it all off, the damn fuel distributor on the sc is going bad.:mad:

I call the first session a get to know you session...you tell him what your there for...your perception of whats wrong/symptoms etc. He then will ask you a number of questions to find out about you.. who you are. He will probably say he can help you. Come back next week....he will think about you a bit and you him and you go from there....

As with auto mechanics there are all different levels of skill with shrinks...some are really good and some really need help themselves. One thing you can count on is that the profession is more regulated than you think...

The only thing I don't like about Psychiatrists is that they are med happy...their orientation is more organic than behavioral.

Fast you've been down the med road and you probably need some serious tweeking of those meds...but you need to stress the behavioral aspects..of the why of these attacks...what is it in the wiring of your behavior your history that flips the switch to cause these attacks. Your goal is to change the wiring of your behavior so that when the switch is flipped you do something differnet than have a panic attack...

One other thing any series of meds that is prescribed will work for a year or two until your tolerance to the meds builds up and then you have to tweek the meds again... to get that equilbrium.

The one thing that I know you have going for you FAst is that you have asked for help...now the question is how much do you hate these attacks and are willing to change. There will be costs involved and not only monetary

The Prophet is now out..and that will be $199.00

Not to keep bring this thread back from the dead, but if anyone has tried PMing me, i think it's screwed up. So just email me at onefastredsc@aol.com, thanks.

Well, it's been a week or 2 since the last update. I'm seeing a psychiatrist. He had me take psychiatric evaluation, 567 general true or false questions. Turns out that the three largest elevations were depression, anxiety/panic, and obsessive tendencies. He also said that he saw some slight elevation in hysteria. Combined with the other issues, that means that my mind does in fact have a very good chance of making up problems that aren't there. Example, feeling like i'm going to faint when i'm not, feeling like i'm getting sick when i'm not, stuff like that. He also wants to get rid of xanax because he said that long term use of xanax tends to promote both hysteria and unusual sleeping patterns. So now the new hope is prozac, because he said that all the ssri's are the same, but the side effects don't affect everyone the same. And his top three pics for my condition, mainly the obsessive tendencies and panic, would be paxil, prozac, or zoloft. Paxil i didn't like, zoloft we aren't sure about, so we both decided on prozac. The plan is to keep side effects to a minimum to cut back on the chances of panics driven by side effects. -wish me well

We do wish you well--remember to give the meds time, and remember not to think that these are organic conditions that cannot be changed or healed. Behavior patterns are not like electrical circuits, they are just like groves in your mental rotors caused by unhealthy breaking habits. Gotta resurface the rotors, relearn to break, and you're ready for the track again!
Good luck!

Ok, this is going to be my last update for this thread before i allow it to fall into the OT archives. I'm been on prozac for quite awhile now, and i haven't taken xanax in maybe 2 months. The good news is that once your body adjusts to the ssri, things are good. The bad news is that you need to suffer for a week to 2 weeks before it settles into your system. Plus everytime the level of ssri's you take is adjusted, you don't "feel" right for about a week. All in all, i'm taking 30mg a day, and my life is almost normal. Matter of fact i took a trip to a "gentlemen's club" last weekend for the first time in months. Now i'm hoping to have built up enough courage by the end of january so that i can make it to the spring semester. Thank you for all the advice here, and i hope this thread will provide assistance to someone in the future here.

Congratulations!

I'm glad you got youself stablized, BUT I'm gona be hard on you. You seem to think that by ingesting those chemicals everything is fine. That is the flavor I get from your posts. But all that does is makes you like a Junkie needing a fix to get by.

The Idea is to get yourself into Thearpy to unravel the Gordian Knot that causes these attacks.... It's called looking at yourself in the mirror and that isn't easy to do...but that is the price EVERYONE has to pay for sanity....so your not alone. There are alot of people on this Board that are struggling with issues, thats called life....I can tell you sumthin, you work long enough and hard enough with yourself and one day you won't need those pills...

My best friend is going through this now. I recommend a book. "Going to Pieces without Falling Apart" by Mark Epstein. It deals directly with the fear you are discussing.

Very brave for you to talk about this.

Glad to hear you're doing better.

Tabs, While there is a grain of truth in what you say this is an impossibly difficult condition to have and medication does help. Some people only take medication and they do in fact take it for life, others take medication and therapy and do well and still others take medication until therapy is totally sucessful. The latter are usually the milder cases. It's illogical to assume that someone can cure an illness with their mind, but many people make the false assumption that mental illness is all "in your head" and you could feel better if you wanted to, that is just not true. I still take a small dose of medication for my panic disorder and I've spent the last 10-12 years working on desensitizing and cognative behavioral therapy, the therapy has help me to control the attacks and sometimes prevent them but I couldn't have made it this far without the medication. The good news about this illness, at least in my case, is that it does get better with time.

1fast, keep up the good work, you're gonna be fine. Email me if you ever need help or have a question.

Thank you for the kind words quiet.
Tabs, i would have agreed with your statement 100% 6 months ago, but now not quite. For some people this is a genetic disorder. My father's entire side of the family has a history of panic and nervousness issues, and my mom's side has a history of depression. The first time this came about, and i took paxil, after awhile i got stubborn again and thought, "i don't need this damn drug, i can do this myself". Well as long as you keep yourself busy you can run, but as soon as things slow down it will catch up to you. And i'm strong mentally, i'm the type that tried controlling my breathing, pushed myself to take rides and try driving, even if it would initiate some violent nausea and extreme dizzy spells. But toward the end before i started taking prozac (if you can't tell) i was starting to feel hopeless, because it felt as if i couldn't control myself mentally, and i'm usually a control freak. Like i said before, it depends on the person, i've had one very cushiony life, there's no reason for this disorder to be here, but it is.
One more thing too, i don't want to scare anyone, but my psychiatrist was right about the xanax. As i had stated previously he told me that xanax in the long run tends to promote hysteria and wierd sleeping habits. He was right, about a week after not taking xanax at all my sleep started becoming better and thought process was less "unrealistic" than it had been.
BTW, now that i can openly talk about this without feeling sick, if anyone cares to PM or email me with questions feel free. onefastredsc@yahoo.com or aol.com

Excellent to hear! I had similar positive results, through meds + therapy. The therapy has helped dramatically. I am virtually my old self again. You'll be there too in 6 months if you keep up with the therapy and WORK on this. Its hard, but worth it. In fact, I started exercising again and I work in a very stressful job and have dealt with adversity SO much better than I had been. Its all coming together for you now. The meds have helped you to ge some equilibrium, and now you have the strength to address things one by one. Best of luck, and isn't it great that the desperation is gone?!?! I am VERY happy for you.

SmileWavy

BRILLIANT!! I can't say how glad I am to hear that things are improving!

When people tell me they think it is Genetic...they are telling me they can't do anything about it, they are helpless victims. So they should jsut accept the inevitable...

I'm saying no you can change...it's just a matter of how dedicated you are to wanting to change...it's basically like the ant that is trying to move the boulder....eventually the ant gets the boulder to it's destination...like I said it's not easy but doable...

Human Beings learn how to cope with the world from their parents...they learn how to deal with stress for example from how their parnets deal with stressfull situations...YOu my friend have both sides of your with a history of having poor coping skills when lets just say dealing with lifes ups and downs.... You can learn new ways of dealing with things...and I'm not talking about breathing excercises either...and Therarpy is the way to do it...

Now let me just take a guess here...in the future they are going to find that if you change a behavior you will change brain chemistry.... it's not an over night process but a gradual one...as you change evey tumbler in the lock of our thought/ behavior process the chemical balance will change ever so slightly also... Geezus what a concept....

Tabs,

I think your theory is probably very true. I think the key though is medicating the patient enough that they can concentrate on therapy. Think of it like leg braces when someone is relearning how to walk after a serious accident or illness, that type of patient will never learn to walk without the braces but eventually most will walk without them. One of the best lessons I've learned along the way is to pick my battles. There are some situations that I simply cannot do much about or even shouldn't and there are others that I can change dramatically. Putting problems into perspective helps to avoid needless stress. Let's take the OT forum for instance, there are people here that actually believe if they argue loud enough and long enough they will change everyone else's mind, they are wrong. I come to the OT to voice an opinion not caring whether or not it's popular or agreed with and as a result I don't have any expectations and therefore no stress. On the otherhand if someone messes with me or my family I vehemently handle the situation and for a little guy I've kicked my share of arses. I live in a blue collar neighborhood in which I have the choice of being the victim or the bastard no one messes with, I choose the latter and everyone knows they will only get hurt messing with me. On the other hand my coworkers, friends and extended family see me as an easy going, polite and even tempered guy. Are there tow Christians? you bet I adapt to the situation at hand. This is how panic disorder is dealt with, pick a battle and win it then move onto the next. It might be something as simple as leaving the protection of your home for 2 minutes or it can even be as anxiety producing as public speaking. You pick the easy battles first, like crawling before walking. ;)

Don't mistake what I am saying....I think the pills are necessary to get a person stabilized and remain so..but I want more for him than that...I want him to get to the place in his life where he doesn't need those pills and I am saying if he DESIRES it enough he can get there..unless there is something so wrong here that nothing can flat out fix it and that doesn't seem to be the case here... In conclusion along with the Meds, Thearpy will work wonders if you are serious about changing your circumstances and give it a chanch....and saying that is Hopefull...

Thank you, i think i get your drift. When i go back to school i'll probably start seeing the campus psychologist again for normal therapy sessions. I can't now because i don't have insurance and the psychiatrist as is is an expense out of pocket.

Let's be a little more positive than that....Right now as it stands you have a mental problem that debilitates you to the point where you can't function.... you need to take medication to stabilize yourself so that you can function..

You cannot afford not to get into Threapy to help you unravel your behavior patterns. I think if you take Thearpy seriously you will find it the best time and money you have ever spent...because the process is about discovering yourself....it's about you...it's about hope....