I ride my motorcycle about 15K miles a year and this thread scares the hell out of me. By far, the worst drivers I encounter on the road on a daily basis are teenage girls. This year alone I've lost two good friends to female teenage drivers who had no business behind the wheel of a car. Take her keys before she kills someone...please.

You could also scare the crap out of her by taking her on the track with you... maybe she'd begin to respect cars a little more. Once she feels it sliding and it's out of her control, maybe she would see them for what they are: large, heavy, chunks of metal, hurling through space, ready to cause serious damage.

Paul,

Looking at the Picture, you have a handful. I would take away her Expresso priviliges. That might even help with the driving problems...

Seriously though, how long has she been driving? It seems, more than anything else, she is being distracted while driving. Removing outside influences while driving should help (No friends, no cell phone, no stereo).

Of course, you could always "shame" her into driving right. Maybe by hanging an old tire on each side of the car, as warning to her and others. Tires removed when she starts driving better.

James

Count me among the "ground her" votes. All that said, I got in a fender bender the on my 16th birthday, the same day I got my license. The only thing that saved my bacon was that I had a witness in my favor...a local cop had been tailing the drunk driver who ran a stop & nailed me. After citing the drunk, he saw me crying, asked: "Think it would help if I wrote your parents a note?" :D

My exact observation. I was nearly killed by a teenager who passed me on the right in a single lane! Ended up she was rushing to a MAC machine a 1/4 mile away..... Don't get me started.

Your photo of your daughter says it all.
16 years old, pierced lip.
Mini skirt.
Black stockings.
All says - teenage vs grownup protest.
In a kitchen which is impossibly neat, tidy and clean. As you are.
The contrast couldn't be starker. Think about it relative to the cars condition.
My son is 19 and at university.
I taught him to drive.
He has his own insurance, a small euro Peugeot 306 hatchback with a 1400cc engine and airbags - with a great crash test reputation.
I am still scared ****less that he will end up crashed into a tree with three friends on a Saturday night on the way to or from a party.
He is over the protest and dont care stage. It shows in his work and general attitude.
Take the car off her and drive her yourself.
Make those drives part of staying in touch with her life and friends. Make them fun if you can.

I don't really think she's that bad of a driver. I mean, it looks like all of the accidents are really minor, low-speed impacts. This type of stuff happens when you're a new driver, especially a girl. It is pretty banged up for a relatively small car, but at least it's still in one piece.

BTW, noticed the misfits pin on her jacket, hope she isn't listening to that kinda music when driving. That could be part of your problem right there, not that there's anything wrong with the music......just not when driving.

Are you sure she's doing all the damage?? I've remember girls in high school having nice cars, and then letting their boyfriend drive it when they aren't in it. They do some donuts, neutral drops, smoke the tires for a while...etc. I've also seen some really bad drivers, but I just have a hard time thinking she's done all that damage without some help.

Good luck man, you're in a tough situation there.

The pictures raise one question to me: is she hitting other cars? Is she driving away or staying to report damage to absent (or present) owners?

I've certainly had enough people hit my Porsches over the years and just drive off.

Thanks again for all the input. I told her yesterday about the restrictions that I'm placing on her driving & when she started to protest I told her forget it, that I was canceling her insurance at which point she apologized & actually started to listen to me. I spent an hour explaining my concerns & used some of the examples given on this thread like "what if it was a bicycler instead of a mailbox". I explained that I am fearful for her safety as well as the people around her. I explained about our insurance & how it could be very costly in the long run if she were involved in a crash , especially if the damages were beyond the coverage of the insurance, we could lose everything including our home. I warned her that if she broke the agreement she would forfeit her license till she turns 18. I advised her to take pics of all the damage & give them to me to store on the PC, because anymore damage would result in her losing her car for 3 months, then 9 months the following time. I told her that this weekend we would spend a couple of hours practicing parking & driving in general.

She really is a good kid, but has some issues she's unwilling to face right now. I wish she would get the therapy she needs, but she has a deep mistrust of shrinks for good reason.

So bottom line is that she will be driving about 75% less with nobody in the car, no music, & to no concerts or shows. I think this may give her more incentive to get a job because I told her I would let her drive to work. I think I handled it well, I didn't get pissed, yell & cuss like I've been known to occasionally do. I stayed calm & firm. Being a parent is tough.

All this is waaaay in front of me still. This is a good learning experience. Thanks Paul. Hope it all works out for both of you.

You just have to accept that any car driven by a teenager is going to get dents. Just buy them an old car that does not matter much. When my kids were in high school they drove an old Escort and an old Toyota pickup, both of which were dented to begin with and got lots more dents. And remember that if they park in high school parking lots they will get dents that are not even their own fault. Furthermore there is a lot of petty vandalism in high school parking lots.
The answer is not sanctions; it is making sure the car they drive is not worth worrying about!

How tall is she ? Maybe she is just sitting too low and cant see outside.

I don't think pre-emptive invasion is the answer, either...

Sounds like things went well all things considered. Stay vigilent and calm and I think you are going to see some positive results. Good luck.

Bust out a bucket of bondo, and make her repair it. Itll teach her some good ol fashioned responsibility.

Good job, Paul... although I still think she should get a job and you should make her pay for the repairs... or maybe the repairs from now on? She will respect the car a lot more if she's the one putting money into fixing/maintaining it.

BTW, is your SC really only 1800 lbs? That is my idea of what a Porsche should be.

This afternoon she was all upset because I wouldn't let her leave the car after school, go to her boyfriend's band practice, then come back & get the car to drive it home.:rolleyes:

Tonight, while I was driving her to a show, she said she is seriously considering relinquishing her insurance & asked me if I would give her money if she did so. I said "Hell Yes, I will gladly give you $20 every Friday so you could go to shows, if I can drop you from my insurance". I also told her that if she decides to do so, that it would be permanent. Before she started driving I used to be pretty generous with spending money for her.

So now she's faced with the decision to grow up, get a job & be responsible, or revert back to being a fifteen year old with no worries other than how she's going to get home from shows.

I'm thinking that she'll probable decide to grow up, 16 months without wheels is a long time once you've already had a taste. It will be tough for her to gain the independence she so longs for when she turns 18, if she has to start from scratch. I'll explain to her tomorrow that if she wants to move out the day she turns 18 (as she dreams)that it will take a good chunk of money & she should start saving now. The main reason she wants to move out is so she can smoke as much pot as she wants, sure did Ricky Williams a lot of good. :rolleyes:

My car is probable lighter than 1800lbs right now because it in pieces all over my garage, that weight was calculated after I pulled the motor & tranny.

All I can say is I'm glad all that teenage driving stuff is behind me by a few years. My stepkids are 31 and 36. We went thru a little of that sheet when they started. I had a 914 that my wife drove and we gave it to the boy to drive to high school. He crashed it one morning, but not too bad. I warned him from the get go, but this one was a tough call. He continued to drive.

Then, one night he had a little to drink and said the car slipped the E-brake and rolled into another car. Whatever. It was sold by 10 AM the next day and I took the money and spent it on myself in a display of tyranny.

I got the whole family's attention on that one. From grandparents on down. Didn't have too much trouble with teenage driving after that.

LOL, that's classic! Worked very well, I'm sure.

First thing would be to take control and make her dress like a lady not a tramp. I would pull that piercing out with vice grips. Really you need to crack down Hard really Hard. Totally ground her. I see big trouble if you dont. 16.5 and Knocked up by some Grunge Rock little wimp ass punk.

I would sit her down and make her read this thread

Steve,

It's a phase....

Case in point. When I was in college I had a pierced nose, navel, and BRIGHT purple hair. Wore a biker jacket and combat boots every day. I was different just like everyone else.

Now, out of college I got a nice job and am the *ahem* fine upstanding citizen you see before you today.

The "goth" and "punk" look girls such as schrup's daughter aren't really any different that the rest, just going for a different crowd. I ran with the frat's too, and frankly found that the Pom-Pom "Susie Chapstick" set that are so admired were the worst behaving most disgusting bunch of people I ever met...!

EDIT: Did have an old B&W or two... Here's after I had tamed down a bit... "Better" haircut

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1096693658.jpg

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/bawling.gif

Steve, I have to disagree with you. My parents were super strict with me & I totally rebelled. They made me keep my hair short back in the seventies which alienated me from most of my peers except for the stoner kids that were the only ones that would accept me the way I was. It was a mistake that cost them thousands of dollars in restitution, attorney fees, & group home board.

My daughter looks like all her friends which is more modest IMHO than the Abercrombie & Fitch crowd who wear next to nothing. She attends the Tacoma School of the Arts which is a colorful bunch of kids.

I've been with a couple of women that were raised in strict religious environments & as soon as the turned 18 they went off the deep end because they had been sheltered from the real world.

I have had many long talks with my daughter about the facts of life & we decided a couple of years ago to get her on the pill to help her with her acne problem. I don't know if she engages in sexual activities, but I do not allow it in my home. Are you suggesting that girls who dress out of style don't get pregnant?

So would you have me make my daughter dress like a grandma & pull my piercing out with Vise Grips as well as hers? It's easy to pass judgments across a keyboard, you sound like an old fuddy- duddy.;)

Wouldn't it be cool if children came with owners manuals, individually tailored? "Leaky relationship with your 16 year-old? Heh, replace those worn-out seals with some new Dr. Phil head gaskets. "
Oh, well. IMHO there is no one way, no sure paradigm or actuarial analysis, that can be applied to rasing daughters or sons. There may be standards that can help, but be prepared to tinker. I have two children, btw, a daughter and son, a little younger than your daughter.
I was raised by parents that I think were very fair and reasonable. One of my older sisters feels the same way. The other, however, thinks she was raised by the Manson family...same folks, same environment, absolutely opposite reaction.
I rebelled as well (my Mom called me, based on the old James Dean movie, a "Rebel without a Clue"), but what teenage in the '70 in Cali didn't? The fact that my parents never closed down the communication channels, remained firm in THEIR convictions, stayed fair and didn't waiver, helped keep me from losing complete perspective. And you can go home again.
I may noy have always liked their message, but I always respected the messengers.
I personally think you are doing great, and that your daughter is fine. The fact that the lines of communication are open is the best indicator of continued success. All the best, Paul.

Hmmm, I suppose you could always buy a term policy on her life, say $2 million or so...then present her with a fast road bike? :rolleyes:

When I turned 16 I got the old Honda Passport with many conditions. GPA had to be 3.2+ which wasnt too tough but if I screwed up one semester the car went away until the grades came back up. I had to wash it every weekend, not a big deal but just spending the time on it helped me to appreciate having a car at all no matter what it was. I got to drive because my high school was in downtown and my parents couldnt drive me or pick me up and i played baseball so we were their at 5am and didnt get home until 6.
The insurance i was setup on was the good student kind with a discount, couldnt afford it if I wasnt a good student. Any dings, scratches, accidents anything like that I had to pay for, thank god I didnt get any. The tickets that I got, no speeding thank god I had to pay for and pay for traffic school.

I was told it was a privelage to drive and they could take it away from me anytime they wanted if I stepped out of line etc. Thats why now, im 21, no car insurance cuz its too expensive on the jetta my parents leased ergo I ride the bus and my bike everywhere. It's nice, no paying for gas, worrying about ppl hitting me, insurance.

Hope this helps, now I am going to sell the Jetta and buy an old porsche!

When i was her age, I was *dreaming* about a Mustang. Hell, 5.0 V8, american looks, alloy rims... (it was in Switzerland).
My father was not too fun with rules, but he raised us straight.
We had a deal: I would not have a moped or motorbike, and he would give me a car by the time I was 18 (legal age to drive here). He held his word, I got a beat up VW Polo. I had to take care of the car myself. He paid insurance (not comprhensive), and I paid for everything else. I changed my first head gasket at 19. It was a godsend that I had that 50HP car for 2 years. I Never braked. One set of pads lasted 60K miles... Then at 20 after working my ass off, I bought my first P car, a 944. In 7 years I did not put one single scratch in it. Now I have 4, and still zero scratch (that I did).

If you allow some advice from a guy that sees more or less naked people every day (I'm a radiologist): piercings yes, tattoos NOOOO! Piercings leave little/no marks when removed. Try to explain that gothic skull tattoo, or worse, svastika, when you're 50 or more, and your lawyers friends notice it at the country club. Even though it is wrong to judge based on that, everyone does.

This is not advice but: if it were my daughter, the car would be long gone in favour of a bicycle, which does wonders to the human body anyways.

being young is no excuse for trashing a car. my grandma gave me her 93 corolla when i turned 16 four years ago and it was actually in better shape the day i sold it than the day i got it (put about 30k miles on it in two years) and i was just about as wild as every other kid my age.

shcrup, definitely spend alot of time teaching her to drive even if she decides to get rid of her insurance.

Schrup, totally agree with you. I had a bowl cut almost through high school until I could drive and get my own haircut. I had glasses as big as the bottom of a wide-mouth beer bottle. I was tagged a nerd, always got beat up etc. I rebelled a little by changing my hair styling and trying everything to blend in. Damn, can't wait to see some of those guys in a reunion.

I disagree completely.I know plenty of people that were punk/grunge/hardcore/metal in HS, and the WORST thing you can do is limit their freedom to be who they want to be. If it is a phase (probably), she'll grow out of it. If it isn't, then it doesn't affect what kind of person she really is, and no harm no foul.

As long as she doesn't dress "slutty" (which she doesn't, from the look of it), I wouldn't worry.

That's about the only thing Mr Stromberg has ever written with which I agree.

It's so easy to judge via keyboard. Stereotyping comes so naturally. (sigh)

One of the guys in my church is a Harley Davidson man. He comes complete with tattoos, a black bandanna, and the leather biker pants -- to Sunday morning services. You'd think, just looking at him, that he's there to find religion. In reality, he has a better grasp on theology than I do, and I feel pretty well founded. It was disappointing to me when he met the music pastor -- who treated him like you'd expect an old fuddy-duddy to treat a biker-kid. Ouch, that's Christian love for ya. (sigh)

But back to the point -- appearances are just that, appearances. Piercings which seem bizarre to Steve may be a totally normal way for Paul's daughter to express herself. Is she sleeping around? Doing drugs? Her style of dress doesn't give you any data towards those question, quite frankly, any more than her driving style does.

Personally, I applaud Paul for taking a decisive stance in raising his daughter. Firmness, fairness, and justice will set the standard. She'll be raised knowing that there is a standard, and that her parents love her enough to enforce it.

Dan


(But, oh, it would be great to have a shop manual! Troubleshooting matrix for poor academic performance; flat spot between October and November...)

It was my understanding that you had to be 18+ for shops to do piercings/tattoos on you.

Seems to me that a reasonable goal of parenting is to launch your kids into the world with as much potential and as few limitations as possible.

Every day, each decision your child makes will help to chart the course of their lives. The car issue represents irresponsibilty in it's purest form. Paul is handling it well.

Drug use, piercing and tattoos can all serve to limit the possibilities available to a young adult. It's still a pretty conservative world out there.

That may be true, but by the time she grows up (mid-20s - 30), it'll be my generation in charge and this stuff won't really matter much any more. With genetic manipulation on the near horizon, piercings are going to be on the minimal end of passe.

JCM

Personally I think Steve's comments were somewhat over the top. I do not think that Paul's daughter looks any different than many of the young women of this generation. I can think of several ad campaigns and several women rock stars that have a similar look. The real question is does the look equate to behavior which is not acceptable to your morals as a parent. I agree that tatoos are out for under 18, because of their permanent nature, but piercings, who cares. Women used to be tramps if they had multiple piercings in their ears. And as far as what they dress like or what color hair they have, again if it does not affect who they are inside or your morals as a parent, WHO CARES. Parents who try to over parent in these subjects can actually do much more harm than good. Love your children for who they are are on the inside, that is what really counts. The outside appearance is (absent tatoos) temporary and definately subject to change. Don't get attached to any one "style."

Tattoos yes, piercings, the age is sixteen with parents consent. She had some hoops to jump through before I would allow it, including getting in no trouble for an extended period of time. I do agree with Moses that appearances can cause limitations, but you can remove them with little evidence left behind.

One thing I can say with certainty is she's brutally honest, I have never caught her lying to me even when I've created situations that it would have been easier for her to lie her way out of.

She hates labels & is no Goth, if anything she's an emo kid, sometimes I can't resist to tease her about her blog (live journal). I really think it's just a phase & at least she has passed all the drug test I've given her. She is really quite modest & doesn't dress like a slut. If you want an example of that, visit an Abercrombie & Fitch store!

For what it's worth, I think you're on the right track. Clearly you love your daughter and are helping her learn responsibility and accountability. The drug testing and the car crisis are all patterns of good parenting.

What you have is a strong-willed girl. (Thank yourself for that!) After the crucible of adolescence has cooled, the same willfullness that's driving you crazy now will help her immeasurably as an adult.

No offense, but it seems as though she doesn't give a crap about the car or have a good appreciation for what it means to be responsible in terms of using a car?

I dunno, seems like she has responsibility issues. If she's remorseful about it that's one thing, accidents happen, but it seems like perhaps she's not?