Was this a war crime?

[widebody911]

Video: http://globalresearch.ca/images/Massacre%20of%20Civilians.wmv

Text: http://www.newsgateway.ca/Fallujah_video_massacre.htm

[red ufo]

Not to the warmongers, they liberated those people.

Cheney added them dead people to the list of Iraqis who helped in the liberation.

Anyway if muslims did that to Americans its called terrorist.
If Jews do that to Americans is an accident.
If Americans do that to anybody its collateral damage.

[rcecale]

Well, I suppose it was just a matter of time. Here they come. Damn right! All those American Servicemembers are is a bunch of babykillers! Can I get a "Ghengis Kahn"? I can't hear you!!!! Shout it, now...GHENGIS KHAN!!!! Just ol' Johnnny boy told you it was.

Please, gimme a break. The video on the page is not available now, due to bandwidth issues, but if it's the same one I saw several months ago...big deal.

The video I reacll is about 30 seconds long, give or take a few second. Anyway, it shows, in black and white, some cross-hairs following people on the ground with the aircrew finally asking for permission to take out the target.

If this site really wanted bandwidth problems, they probably should have played the ENTIRE video. The one that is probably SEVERAL MINUTES long.

To believe that these guys just happened to fly over some people and immediately ask for "permission" to take them out is ridiculous.

If you follow the entries in the thread linked to on that page, someone actually posted more information...


Marines were in a fire fight 2 blocks away and the men on the street were reenforcements running to join the fight. When the pilots saw them they got permission to dust the tangoes vs. the house. Plain and simple.

Sad thing is, I am not sure what to trust anymore image-wise. People on both sides of the Iraq war debate have the tools and talent to manipulate still pictures and video. And this clip is a great example of how context can be changed just by simple editing, since it is too short for us to hear any other dialog.

I would expect this kind of post from someone like red ufo, but you, Thom, usually don't sink this low.

Randy

[red ufo]

Yep Randy the military never does any wrong, took them a while apologize for bombing the Canadians.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by rcecale
If this site really wanted bandwidth problems, they probably should have played the ENTIRE video. The one that is probably SEVERAL MINUTES long.

Then please post said full video.

Did you read the different reports of the recent indicent where the Apache blew up the Bradley? News crews had the whole fricking thing on film, yet the Official US Military report was very different.

[rcecale]

I have a better idea, Thom. Howsabout you do your own research before you post such drivel.

For those who can't get the link Thom posted to work...try clicking here.

Whoever watches this can make their own call....Iraqi troops running from a firefight with US Forces they were just involved in, or a crowd of Iraqis just getting off work and heading for the bar for a quick one before going home to their wives and children? Perhaps they were all late for prayer time at the local mosque...?

You make the call...

Randy

[john70t]

Without comment, an Ethiopean folk saying: "When the elephants fight, the grass gets trampled". There were probably a whole lot more civilians dying from malnutrition during the sactions, and US tactics are probably more precise/humane than 95% of the scirmishes.

You're right though Thom, hasty trigger fingers are good for enemy recruitment and the war planners have been inept in almost every aspect of follow-up.
They either weren't watching the budget which shifted on them, were using Iraq (easier than Afganistan) as the jihad battlefield by playing lame duck, ran into a truely worthy opponent, or wanted to keep the situation screwed up to cover up other shady dealings in the area.

Israelies shooting international journalists and the USAF bombing of the Chinese embassy haven't recently been the best promotions of their cause.

[Don 944 LA]

Originally posted by red ufo
(edited )
Anyway if muslims did that to Americans its called terrorist.
If Jews do that to Americans is an accident.
If Americans do that to anybody its collateral damage.

I totally agree with that statement... You know why ..

CAUSE IT TRUE !!!

and to answer the original question : YES

[911pcars]

A 30 second clip probably doesn't tell all or maybe it does. I'd have to know the circumstances before the video to arrive at a conclusion. Can anyone tell whether the people were armed or not? or whether they were friendlies?

Sherwood

[rcecale]

This was posted above, Sherwood.


Marines were in a fire fight 2 blocks away and the men on the street were reenforcements running to join the fight. When the pilots saw them they got permission to dust the tangoes vs. the house. Plain and simple.

Sad thing is, I am not sure what to trust anymore image-wise. People on both sides of the Iraq war debate have the tools and talent to manipulate still pictures and video. And this clip is a great example of how context can be changed just by simple editing, since it is too short for us to hear any other dialog.

Randy

[red ufo]

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its duck.

Certainly appears to be a war crime, no different than burning villages and killing everyone in it. Should be explained further, or it fuels the fire of hatred of WWW3.

[tabs]

When a suicide bombers sets off his bomb he doesn't care about who he kills..his object is to kill. To impose his will on his enemy.

At least our enenmies have it right...but Americans and those in other countries that want to hold it over Americas head will whine and cry about how brutal our forces are...Couldn't we be more polite when we fight a war...not to muss up anyones hair.

War is a dirty business...it's all criminal by it's very nature..leagalized murder...but that is the object of war to impose your will upon the enemy by force of arms to either get him to cease and desist or to destroy him.

You, we have no other choich but to succeed once the battle has been joined...

Everybody agrees Sadam was a BAD GUY...the mistake was not in getting rid of him...there may have been other means than using direct military force but none had worked so far, and none were apparent. So the call to war was not a unjust call..it was direct and straight to the point...However the planners really didn't have a clear idea about the true situation in Irwreck and thusly didn't have a workable plan to fix the place once they bought the territory with militaty force.

So what the fk are U gona do...**** happens...

[Superman]

Yes, context is key. Yes, grass gets trampled. No one is perfect.

On the other hand, if someone dies on my construction site, we don't ask whether something went wrong. We ask WHAT went wrong. And the guy at the top ultimately takes responsibility. Unless he tries to dodge that responsibility. dodging that responsibility does not work on my construction site, or in my personal political views.

And finally, while I admit that these things happen...should be investigated...should be expected, though not condoned of course..yadda yadda.....my larger point is this: Anyone with a brain has fully expected this. And has expected that our reputation in the ME and elsewhere in the world is going to go in the tank. And that's the price we will pay, for decades at least, for the fun Dubya and the WWF fans are having now. And you know who you are.

[island911]

Originally posted by tabs
When a suicide bombers sets off his bomb he doesn't care about who he kills..his object is to kill. To impose his will on his enemy.

At least our enenmies have it right...but Americans and those in other countries that want to hold it over Americas head will whine and cry about how brutal our forces are...Couldn't we be more polite when we fight a war...not to muss up anyones hair.

. ...

ya NAILED it.

[red ufo]

Originally posted by tabs

Everybody agrees Sadam was a BAD GUY...the mistake was not in getting rid of him...there may have been other means than using direct military force but none had worked so far, and none were apparent. So the call to war was not a unjust call..it was direct and straight to the point...However the planners really didn't have a clear idea about the true situation in Irwreck and thusly didn't have a workable plan to fix the place once they bought the territory with militaty force.

So what the fk are U gona do...**** happens...

Thats not true. I don't think Saddam was such a bad guy, he was pretty kewl! Mostly misunderstood used throughly as a patsy to US interests.

Saddam is the only guy who could have peace in Iraq with so many radical religions. One guy held the country together and kept peace and regional stability.

But 120k US troops can't do what Saddam has done. All the money in the world can't fix Iraq, we can send high school kids until the cow flys over the moon but we'll never fix or 'walmartize' the region. Only Saddam can do it. He is a one man army and force to reckon with.

After 1,000 lives and 200 billion only now have we learned this mistake. We need to put Saddam back in power, get out and apologize to the World (MONKEY should).

We are doing the samething to Cuba in respect to Castro. Where capitalism is good for the world except cuba.

Saddam 04!

[tabs]

Well your construction site ain't a war....

War by it's very nature is organized CHAOS....Diiplomacy is when things are still inder control...War is an admission of the failure of Diplomacy to reach a settlement. War is a throwing of the dice, taking a chanch on the imponderable that you will prevail.

And in the Chaos of war the worse can happen...because events are out of control....

[island911]

C'mon, "red ufo" you're tipping your hand. ..dial it back a bit . .. people may start suspecting your just a ruse.

[tabs]

Sadams solution to dissent and oposition real or imagined in his country was BULLET IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD. He11 Sadam got so fond of the sport he and his sons didn't even need a reason anymore...just that it was something fun to do on Saturday night in Bagdad.......

[red ufo]

Originally posted by tabs
Sadams solution to dissent and oposition real or imagined in his country was BULLET IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD. He11 Sadam got so fond of the sport he and his sons didn't even need a reason anymore...just that it was something fun to do on Saturday night in Bagdad.......

Yep! Cool huh?

The only way to keep that ****ed up country from going to civil war was randomly making people disappear, people deemed bad guys. Our politians do that all the time but don't brag about it. Over 100 people died connected to Clinton when he was in office.

We also live in a country that sends retarted people to the gas chamber, have NFL teams with 10% felony record (Sid Fried and Roy anyone) and have 3,000 people killed a year do to cellphones and driving, not to mention 30k people killed per year in gun or drug violence.

Point it our counrty is just as violent as Iraq. Whens the last time you heard some Iraqi kid went to a Bagdad school and did a Columbine? Hell they all have fully automatic assault rifles and RPG.

Atleast when Saddam when on his invading of Kuwait he had a good excuse, whats our excuse this week for invading Iraq?

Plus its Ok to kill insurgents now, but bad when Saddam was doing the exact samething to quell an uprising. The same type of uprising were trying to stop.

[Purrybonker]

Originally posted by island911
C'mon, "red ufo" you're tipping your hand. ..dial it back a bit . .. people may start suspecting your just a ruse.

aw come on, red ufo's observations are the most lucid and pragmatic I've seen on this board on this particular topic (notwithstanding various posts of my own (that sound very similar in timbre, BTW), of course).

Sadam, was indeed the only guy that succeeded in keeping the peace in Iraq (for decades) not only in the face of the various internal religious & political combatants, but also in the face of the ruskies and the yanks. Crap, both Washington and Moscow have been playing "king of the hill" with Iraq forever. Sadam was the first Iraqi leader not to play puppet to either side. Hmmm, I wonder if that could have anything to do with his ouster?

Sadam - he the man!

red ufo in '04!