Liberals -- Do you like the Kerry Tax-cut Plan?

[island911]

Do you think it's a good plan? . . .cutting the taxes for EVERYONE making under 200k?

I always thought liberals liked more taxes, more programs; not less. So how does this plan fly with you guys?

thanks.

[bryanthompson]

Shifting the tax burden onto the smallest percentage has always been a major goal of the left. Right now 20% pay 80% of the taxes.

Keep the poor poor and dependant on their programs, punish those who manage to succeed.

[CamB]

You need the poor and dependent to succeed.

[ronin]

huh? I need non-productive individuals sucking off the government teet and driving up taxes to succeed? really?

[Hugh R]

Originally posted by CamB
You need the poor and dependent to succeed.

Enlighten me!! From my perspective, they suck about 1/3rd of my taxes in "Entitlements". I think I asked you this once before, and you told me that NZ has virtually no illegal aliens and if you can't prove citizenship, you can't get your social services. That's not the case here. And, no, I'm not just talking about illegals. Tell me how a poor, poorly educated, dependent underclass benefits me. Cheaper produce? Cheaper fast food? Where's the benefit to me when the cost savings go to government programs with huge transactional costs to get my tax money to those other people. BTW, since you follow U.S. politics so closely, you should know that I'm one of those ones that John Kerry wants to raise taxes on. Last year in state and Federal income tax, sales tax, tire tax, gasoline tax, property tax, telecommunication tax, vehicle license fee tax, alcohol and tobacco tax, I paid more taxes than the average family in the U.S. earns before they even pay taxes. In fact, I paid about twice as much in taxes as the average family even earns, and according to John Kerry, I'm still not paying enough tax. I have to pay to put my daughter through college, guess what? I'm too rich, and I'm not really rich, and yet I have to pay taxes to put some other guys kid through college. I make too much money to get tuition assistance, or any grants.

So yes, please enlighten me on how having a poor and dependent underclass helps me

[mikester]

You know...I meet JFKerry's requirements for his tax increases and I support them. I don't think that it's unfair that I pay more in taxes than someone who makes less than me and I would certainly enjoy the money if I kept it but on the other hand - I can afford to pay the taxes much more than someone who makes less than my family does.

The problem that I have which higher taxes is how the money is spent - I don't think it is spent well and I don't agree with a lot of the liberal programs that are out there. They just enable much more than they assist (more often than not).

[CamB]

Enlighten me

It's not like the poor put their money under the mattress and it never gets spent - the money goes back into the economic system.

There are, IMHO, really only two choices - the bottom third of the country can be in the state they're in (handouts, etc), or they can have those taken away and they can be really poor.

You will have more money in the latter case, although you may not like large tracts of the country any more. Instead of minor percentages of the country being a ghetto, large tracts of it would need to be ---> go check a developing nation some time.

More beggars, more crime - but that's ok, because you'd be in a gated community with security guards paid for by your saved tax money.

A not too poor lower and middle class is an important part of your life ---> I'm going way out on a limb here (this is mostly talking off the top of my head) but it seems to me that this is what would happen...

... and I'm not even going to get into the change in the consumer society (which fuels economic growth) that removing that income would bring. I suspect it would be large...

Seriously, I'm making this stuff up and I don't doubt that lower taxes, less welfare and (most importantly) higher govt efficiency would bring a whole lot more money to you.

However, it would, IMHO destruct the semi-egalitarian structure of your society and I don't think it would be a nice place to live afterwards.

[island911]

Originally posted by CamB
You need the poor and dependent to succeed.

Oh, I see what happened; Cam misspoke. Should of said:

Liberals need the poor to succeed at being dependent.

I mean how else are the Liber... lefties supposed to hold power, if they don't have voters dependent on them for someone elses money?

[Bleyseng]

I think Kerry should cut all the subsities to farmers, steel industry, etc that are on the government teet sucking up all that (pork) for a free ride.
I think Kerry should abandon the War on Drugs and use that money on Treatment as we would be way ahead on that one. Release all those people in jail that are in for small amounts of drugs or drug use. For the $25k a year to keep them in jail we could send them to treatment for a small portion of that.
Bush has added 800,000 government jobs in 4 years, what kind of GOP President is that? smaller ? not a chance....
programs for the poor don't eat up tons of money but you do reap lots of benefits by helping the poor to rise above poverty.
Geoff
Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we're deaf, dumb
and dangerous.

[Superman]

Wow is there some mythology here. Someone said that "entitlements" soak up a third of their taxes. That someone should listen to less Rush, and do more research.

I'll come back to read, I'm in a hurry, but Cam is right and this subject has been dealt with here before. The wonderful glorious capitalism form of economics, the one so favored by Christians, requires a certain level of unemployment. And misery, frankly. But that discussion is actually more complex than most here can seem to handle.

And finally, here is my answer: I'd rather pay more taxes, and get what I need from "gubmit." For example, I probably waste at least an hour each week day in traffic that I'd rather avoid, and pay the cost of avoiding it. Most of us want gubmit services. Some of us think they should be free. Some of us think we should get more and better gubmit services, and a tax cut at the same time. Gotta scratch my head over that one. And please, don't embarrass yourself by posting the assertion that you do not want more or better gubmit services. Rush is not doing you a favor when he fools you into pretending that. But if you wish, we can provide you with a list of gubmit services you use, you need, and you want to be delivered better.

[island911]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
I think Kerry should cut all the subsities to farmers, steel industry, etc that are on the government teet sucking up all that (pork) for a free ride.
I think Kerry should abandon the War on Drugs . ....

There's hope for ya yet, Geoff.
In all seriousness, it sounds like you should consider voting Libertarian. The Libertarians are thee "third-part" taking hold; much for the above reasons. You aren't the first to be sick of the hugely bloated government crap.

Sure, they dont stand a chance to win the persidency. . . but the more votes for them, the larger the message to the entrenched duopoly to dial-back those intrusive, costly, ineffective, and bloated programs.