If you ever wanted a Tivo....

[EdT82SC]

I just bought my first Tivo. It's a combo DVD writer + Tivo from Huxam, the DRT800. If you've been thinking about getting a Tivo now is the time to RUN, don't walk to your local Best Buy. They have it in the store for $299. Every other place has it for $399 (Sam's Club) to $499 (bestbuy.com). But for some reason they messed up, and the in-store price is only $299. This is an awesome deal, and I thought I would let you guys in on it. I bought two because my brother in law wanted one too. There is currently a $100 rebate if you sign up for the lifetime Tivo service too.

[RickM]

Ed, thanks for the tip. May I ask how much the lifetime service is?

[EdT82SC]

Originally posted by RickM
Ed, thanks for the tip. May I ask how much the lifetime service is?

The lifetime service is $299 - 100 rebate. If you don't get the lifetime it's $12.95/month. So unless you are planning on keeping the Tivo for less then 16 months it makes sense to go with the lifetime service. You can also use the free Tivo basic service if you don't want to pay for the full Tivo service. Go check out tivo.com to see the difference between the two.

[cstreit]

I looked it up online and their price is $499. Gonna go look at my local store today. I'm pessemistic and thinking that the $299 price was probably just at your local store...

[targa911S]

And now they will know every move you make for the rest of the time you have it. Scarey.

[EdT82SC]

This was nationwide. There was a post about it on tivocommunity.com that had dozens of people from all over the country buying them at this price starting at 11/5. The day after I posted this a co-worker of mine went to get one, and they had placed a sticker with a new bar code that scanned at $499. My co-worker mentioned that his friend (me) had gotten one the day before for $299. The Best Buy emplyee scratched off the sticker, scanned it again, it came up $299, and he took it out the door at that price!

The next day another co-worker tried to get the same deal, but didn't have the same luck. So I think at this point you're probably too late.

I found out what went wrong. The bar code on the box was entered into their computer incorrectly so that when it was scanned it came up as the DVD-less unit, priced at $299. So my receipt has a different model number than what I actually purchased. Maybe an issue if I need waranty service, but waranties on electronics are so short these days I'll take my chances.

Also I didn't sign up for the Tivo Service ($299 lifetime - $100 rebate) yet. We're trying to figure out if it's worth it. So far the free basic service seems to be enough for us. So if you do pick up a Tivo at any price I would strongly recommend you try the basic service first before shelling out the cash for the full service.

[cstreit]

I went to our local BB and it was now $399 including the $100 off rebate. Dang!

[greglepore]

I have a question re the basic service-what searches can you do, or is it basicly like using a VCR?

My wife just bought me one as a gift, and misunderstood the salesman about the service cost. I'm not crazy about the 300 bucks, and am thinking about returning it (for an IPOD) but if it was reasonably functional with the basic...

[EdT82SC]

Originally posted by greglepore
I have a question re the basic service-what searches can you do, or is it basicly like using a VCR?

My wife just bought me one as a gift, and misunderstood the salesman about the service cost. I'm not crazy about the 300 bucks, and am thinking about returning it (for an IPOD) but if it was reasonably functional with the basic...

The basic service is better then a VCR. This morning we used the "season pass" feature to set it up to record every episode of Lost. Then my wife set it up to record General Hopital! She loves the thing.

Then they have some thing where they suggest shows based on what you've watched. So since my wife watches home improvement and design shows a lot there were lots of those type of shows recommended. There was also a new craft show that she didn't know about.

As if she didn't watch TV enough already!

If you pay for the Tivo service, and you have a home network, and connect the Tivo to it you can schedule your Tivo through the internet with your web browser. So you could control your Tivo from work for example. You can play mp3s stored on your PC, or do a slideshow of digital pictures stored on your PC. Plus if you have multiple Tivos you can transfer recorded shows between them. There are a couple more features you get as well. See the tivo web site for more info:

http://www.tivo.com/1.2.asp

We still haven't decided if we want to go for the paid service. At this point it seems like they give you enough for free that it isn't really worth the extra money for the paid features.

[greglepore]

Ed, maybe I'm dense, and I have to admit I know nothing about TIVO, but their website says nothing about any free basic service. There is such a thing? The link only describes the 12.95/299 service.

Edit-never mind. Searched the forum. The basic service is only shipped with some models, those including dvrs.

[EdT82SC]

Originally posted by greglepore
Ed, maybe I'm dense, and I have to admit I know nothing about TIVO, but their website says nothing about any free basic service. There is such a thing? The link only describes the 12.95/299 service.

Of course they don't tell you about the free service. They don't make any money off it. In fact since you do get about half the features of the full service it is costing them money since you are using their phone or network bandwidth to download the programing directory. I looked around for a page I saw last week that had a chart comparing the basic and paid service. I couldn't find it. So they may have removed it. I take that back. I googled "tivo basic service", and found this:

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv1199.htm

Now I can tell you right now that the chart isn't correct. We set up a season pass for shows. It is suggesting shows to us. At this point we haven't tried all the features yet so I can't comment on other features.

[LeeH]

Seems like you'll be trading one ad for another on Tivo... plus your Tivo is watching YOU!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20041117/ts_latimes/tivowillnolongerskippastadvertisers

[azasadny]

TiVo Will No Longer Skip Past Advertisers
The tool that lets viewers control the TV will soon sport 'billboards' and track viewing habits.



By Gina Piccalo, Times Staff Writer


When it debuted in 1999, TiVo revolutionized the TV experience by wresting control of screen time from advertisers, allowing viewers to record shows and skip commercials. TiVo's slogan said it all: "TV your way."

Behind the scenes, though, TiVo was courting advertisers, selling inroads to a universe most customers saw as commercial-free. The result is a groundbreaking new business strategy, developed with more than 30 of the nation's largest advertisers, that in key ways circumvents the very technology that made TiVo famous.







By March, TiVo viewers will see "billboards," or small logos, popping up over TV commercials as they fast-forward through them, offering contest entries, giveaways or links to other ads. If a viewer "opts in" to the ad, their contact information will be downloaded to that advertiser — exclusively and by permission only — so even more direct marketing can take place.

By late 2005, TiVo expects to roll out "couch commerce," a system that enables viewers to purchase products and participate in surveys using their remote controls.

Perhaps even more significant is TiVo's new role in market research. As viewers watch, TiVo records their collective habits — second by second — and sells that information to advertisers and networks. (It was TiVo that quantified the effect of Janet Jackson's Super Bowl "wardrobe malfunction," reporting a 180% increase in the number of replays reported by viewers.)

For advertisers it's an extraordinary boon, a quicker and more effective way than they've ever had of measuring the effects of their TV commercials.

For viewers, TiVo's new strategy means the technology famously christened "God's machine" by Federal Communications Commission Chairman Michael K. Powell is rapidly becoming a marketer's best friend, proving that try as they might, consumers cannot hide from marketing.

"TiVo looked like it was going to be the weapon of mass destruction of Madison Avenue," says Robert Thompson, Syracuse University professor of television and pop culture. "However, we knew that the [TV] spot ad would not go gently into the night, and this is the next battle strategy."

The shift underscores what industry observers have been saying since TiVo started — that TV advertising and programming must change dramatically to survive.

These are anxious times for marketers, who are faced with commercial-busting technology that's evolving faster than they can keep up. Broadcast-ready cellphones, hyper-real video games, interactive DVDs and the Internet give consumers the on-demand, often commercial-free entertainment they crave.

Traditional network television viewing, by comparison, can seem antiquated. The number of American households with a TiVo or TiVo-like recording system is expected to increase from 5% to 41% in five years, according to Forrester Research, which studies technology's effect on business.

For this reason, ad agency executives who initially ignored TiVo and its digital video recorder technology, or DVR, are now praising it as an industry savior.

"I look at TiVo being first generation of the TV advertising of the future," says Tim Hanlon, a vice president at Starcom MediaVest Group, one of the world's largest media-buying companies, with clients including General Motors Corp., Procter & Gamble Co. and Best Buy Co. "There's a whole witch's brew of change coming to the linear television form."

But what about TiVo's devotees, those folks who send the company fan mail and photos of their pets posed with TiVo boxes, and act as missionaries, converting their friends to the technology?

Some say they don't mind a little pop-up advertising — just so long as they can fast-forward through it — because it could help keep TiVo in business. (A September report from Forrester shows that DVR owners typically fast-forward through 92% of commercials.)

Others are wary of the changes and concerned the company's priorities may be shifting away from the consumer.

"A company can get too big for its britches, you know?" says Bill Calogero, a Chicago computer business analyst and TiVo subscriber since 1999. "I just don't want them to interfere with the experience. If it isn't broke, don't fix it."

Yet from its inception, TiVo engineered its system with advertisers and networks in mind. While competitor ReplayTV had allowed its subscribers to skip commercials entirely — TiVo restricted its fast-forward capabilities so viewers could still see the commercial, albeit eight times faster than intended. (ReplayTV last year was forced by litigious studios and networks to adopt a more TiVo-like system.)

TiVo also sold space on its main menu to advertisers as a venue for commercials that ran longer than the usual 30- or 60-second spots. And the company developed "tagging" technology as a way for networks to advertise TV shows by embedding a green thumbs-up sign in the corner of the screen during a show's promo, reminding the viewer to record it. Advertisers saw tagging as an opportunity and jumped at it.

By 2002, TiVo was selling "tag" time to Lexus and Best Buy. The thumbs-up icons appeared during live commercials, inviting the viewer to "click here" for a chance to enter a contest, receive a DVD or brochure or watch a glossy, long-form commercial.

Over time, General Motors, Nissan Motor Co., Coca-Cola Co., Walt Disney World and Royal Caribbean International cruise line paid their way into the program. And all the while, TiVo recorded viewer response.

The tags proved so lucrative for TiVo, and so popular with viewers, that the Alviso, Calif.-based company expanded their capabilities significantly. They created "billboards," more robust tags that are larger and promote greater brand awareness with logos and text.

Until now, the new technology has been relatively subtle and not widely seen; by spring, it will be hard for TiVo users to miss. (The technology is part of the software provided to all TiVo users.)

"The message we really want to get across," says Davina Kent, TiVo's advertising and research sales manager, "is that we now have a dedicated road map for advertising."

There are TiVo users who say that as long as the new technology doesn't interfere with their ability to fast-forward through a commercial, they're happy to ignore it. It's the timesaving apparatus they say they cherish most.

"To be able to see things when I want to see them is the real advantage," says L.A. radio promotion executive Jennifer Sperandeo.

Other TiVo users say they hope the new partnerships prove lucrative enough to keep the company afloat. Five years after its launch, TiVo still hasn't turned a profit and doesn't expect to until January 2006. (Kent says the advertising revenue will probably bring down the cost of TiVo to its 2 million subscribers — currently $12.95 a month.)

And in the year since Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. took control of satellite operator DirecTV Group Inc., TiVo's largest source of customers, the future of that relationship has grown increasingly uncertain.

"I want them to be successful," says Gary Beck of Long Beach, who bought his first TiVo in 1999 and now has three. "They have clawed their way up. As long as they're not giving out personal data, I don't mind."

Some observers, however, interpret TiVo's new ad campaign as a profound change in its ideology that won't sit well with devotees.

Matt Haughey, whose Portland, Ore.-based PVRblog.com gets 10,000 hits a day (PVR is short for personal video recorder), says he wasn't surprised by the shift. After last year's lawsuit against ReplayTV and TiVo's hiring of NBC executive Martin Yudkovitz as president, he figured the glorious "David versus Goliath" days, when TiVo was the best defense against corporate tyranny, were numbered.

"My first impulse is, this is going to start the slippery slope," Haughey says.

"TiVo is dependent on a psychology," says Neal Gabler, a senior fellow at the Norman Lear Center at USC Annenberg and author of "Life the Movie: How Entertainment Conquered Reality." "It is not just a technology. You don't want people to intrude in your life. That's the whole point of it — to give you control of that mechanism…. I think they're going to find themselves losing customers. I say this as a TiVo subscriber."

To Syracuse University's Thompson, the concept of interactive advertising interrupts the most relaxing aspect of watching TV. "People seem to forget that what we've loved about television so dearly is its abject passivity," he says. "That's why they call it couch potato. TV was so great because it wasn't interactive."

But TiVo research suggests that notion is out-of-date. Between 5% and 20% of TiVo viewers given the opportunity to "participate" in an ad — either by clicking on a tag or by selecting a long-form commercial from a main menu — take it.

That's because TiVo has done its homework and knows its customer, Kent says. The new ads intrigue viewers instead of annoy them. They pop up and disappear in a matter of seconds if the viewer isn't interested. "You'll never see TiVo roll out any kind of intrusive advertising," Kent says. "It's very core to our mission."

What remains to be seen is whether consumers will embrace this culture shift at TiVo.

"Watching [an ad] is one thing," TiVo loyalist Calogero says. "Interacting with it is something that the consumer is going to need a little more reassurance that their information isn't being sold. I mean, TiVo knows how many times I rewinded to see Janet Jackson's breast come up. How much more do they know about me?"