In its short history and to my knowledge, Fox News has never been called out for an inaccurate report. Unlike CBS, which gave false credence to fabricated documents, and CNN, which falsified accounts of US atrocities. What Fox News did that was so scandalous was to offer a new perspective on liberal institutional behavior.

there are actually a few instances where they were called out and had to retract something, but that's not what concerns. It's how Fox reports. Just saw this example watching Fox and CNN.

Fox reported about the Gonzales hearing that it was a jovial affair, "a love fest at times with even democrats embracing him, one calling him "ol' buddy".

That was the entire story with a few clips of softball questions.

Same story on CNN revealed contentious questioning at times, even from Republicans. It showed one Republican talking about just the idea of looking to get around international laws against torture means you've lost the moral high ground.

But here's the topper! Remember Democrats calling him "ol buddy" in the Fox report? We'll, Joe Biden was questioning him on whether he thinks the President is, at times, beyond international law in regards to ordering torture.

Gonzales answers that it's a hypothetical question and that Bush didn't order the torture at Abu Graib and goes on to say that he can't say whether or not he thinks the President can order torture because it may effect the outcome of a future case. What is Biden's response?

Biden says his opinion now has absolutely no bearing on a future case, that it's "malarkey" and says "we're looking for a straight answer here, ol buddy"

Having an independent media source be an apologist for the government is the first step in slippery slope toward Fascism. Not saying that's going to happen in the US, but as a media source, Fox helps shape public opinion. Did Fox lie in their reporting? No, he really was called ol buddy by Democrat.

Is that really what happened? No.

I watch both to get both sides. This happens a lot. IT'S CALLED CONTEXT.

Now I know why so many people are confused in this country. They are being lied to on a daily basis and would never even know it. Poor souls.

Well, it's a good thing we have enough upstanding conservatives here to shoot down any suggestions that the Ohio voting fraud get a look-see. We wouldn't want to take a little look-see just because it appears as though something fishy happened there. You guys are just inspiring to me, as patriots.

The Ohio thing is actually quite interesting, if anyone has dug into those details. Particularly the planning and building of the voting machines. Some well-known figures participated in that, who also held key roles in Dubya's campaign and other business relationships. Oh, but I'm nuts to even consider that grown me could play games with millions of dollars at their disposal and billions of dollars at stake in the outcome. I'm so silly.

Oh, and the votes in King County have been counted enough times already. What has not gotten a complete audit is the figure being used for the "number of people who voted." Some of you should rush to judgement right now, immediately, before any more information is revealed. The rest of us will probably make the mistake of letting the auditors do their work before drawing conclusions. But wait. If we're having one of those little look-sees at evidence of voter fraud, then WHAT ARE WE DOING. You guys are not comfortable doing that in the Ohio matter, right? Well, now I'm confused.

What do we do? Investigate voter fraud? Or not? I'll defer to you patriots. Perhaps we should investigate the Washington State voter fraud, and refuse to look into the frankly very interesting story of voting machines built by Friends of Dubya, and the decision to build them so that a paper trail is not possible even when specifically asked to include the paper trail feature.

It's really sad that we can't even seem to hold an election to the same standards we ask of little third world backwater republics. It's almost ironic that we are presumptious enough to think we can help Iraq with their upcoming elections. Getting past the partisian finger pointing, it does appear we have some serious issues to address. Do we unseat a sitting President while we do that? That would be counter-productive. Do we de-certify an election and unseat a Governor-elect? I don't think so. I voted for Dubya and would again; I voted against Gregoire and would again. To me the man or woman occupying the office is less important than the integrity of the process that put them there. Let's fix that process. There is no need for the partisian attempts to unseat either one of these elected leaders while we do that. Let's not forget we are all Americans first, and blue, red, or purple second. This heavily partisian slant to everything we do and everything that happens is taking its toll on us already.

Even John Kerry hisself elected (no pun intended ;) ) to not participate in this challenge since it has a zero possibility of affecting the election results ...... :rolleyes:

Agreed, Jeff. Well said. Now, you may see this next remark as partisan, and perhaps others will even see me as a traitor or something, but I'd say that election embarrassments are not all we've had here lately, and some of this stuff no doubt is eroding our "leadership" position in the world. Frankly, they're laughing at us and shaking their heads. IN Iraq they're crying and shaking their fists. Ooops, I forgot about the part where we're liberating a grateful nation that will now accept Western principles. Because of our leadership there.

If the democrats were standing up for principal instead of trying to beat their anti-Bush drum as they have for the last 4 years, they should have brought their objection immediately when the first state's electoral votes were to be certified.

The fact that they waited until Ohio, when so many of them clearly state that they're fighting on principal, not that they're fighting over Ohio, is really telling.

If they were interested in ALL alleged incidences of voter fraud, they should be bringing up the voter registration fraud:
- Multiple voter registrations for a single person (one person registered 25 times in one case)
- ACORN registered a 13 year old to vote
- paying for registrations in crack cocaine
- registration of dead people (one guy registered had been dead for 20 years)
- more registrations in certain counties than is the population
Not to mention the slashing of tires on vans to be used to transport voters to the booths, people voting absentee AND at the booth, people voting in multiple precincts, etc.

If their intentions were genuine, these would have been raised, in addition to whatever conspiracy theories they might be clinging to, when the FIRST STATE was to be certified. Instead, they transparently latched onto Ohio.

Hey...you libs can recount all you like..as long as you pay the bill for your silliness...the results will be the same....just like the recounts in Florida in 2000.....
Oh, and when Micheal Moore is you spokesman...you should expect to get ripped...just as if you had Pee Wee Herman lecturing about movie theater behavior or Bill Clinton speaking to new interns on morality in the oval office. In this article alone..he goes to great lengths to infer blatant untruths....hey...defend the scumbag; let him speak for liberals...just remember....when you sleep with dogs, you wake with fleas.

An update, if anybody still cares about fair and accurate elections.

Congress Debates, Democracy Wins
http://www.votecobb.org/

04:05 PM — Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones of Ohio and Sen. Barbara Boxer of California join the list of great heroes of American democracy for their courageous decision to stand up for the disenfranchised voters in Ohio. By objecting to the Ohio Electoral College votes, they, Rep. Conyers, the Congressional Black Caucus, and many others started a debate that highlighted the glaring problems facing voters in Ohio and elsewhere. While Republican legislators said that the debates were frivolous and unnecessary, the fact remains that widespread problems cited in 2000 were not fixed in time for the 2004 election. More work remains, and these hearings have set the stage for the next phase of our work.

Thanks to David Cobb and the Green Party, who were proud and privileged to stand up for the voters of Ohio along with the Libertarian Party, the National Voting Rights Institute, and many others, electoral reform is now front and center on the national stage. All of you who volunteered to observe the 88 Ohio county recounts, raised money to pay the recount expenses, and wrote, called, marched, and raised your voices can pat yourselves on the back for a job well done. Take a moment to savor your victory, and then let's get on to the important work of making sure that each person can vote, and each person's vote counts.

01:23 PM — Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones of Ohio has just risen to object to the Electoral votes from Ohio, and has submitted her written objection signed by herself and Sen. Barbara Boxer. The Senate is retiring to its own chamber, and each house has two hours to deliberate.

12:55 PM — David Cobb and hundreds of protesters have arrived at Upper Senate Park. Recount attorney Susan Truitt of CASE Ohio, Harvey Wasserman of the Columbus (Ohio) Freee Press, and David Lytel of Re-Defeat Bush are there. Inside the Capitol, the Senators are just walking into the House chamber for the Electoral College vote counting.

12:10 PM — David Cobb and hundreds of protesters are marching past 13th Street on Pennsylvania Avenue toward a fog-shrouded Capitol. The crowd covers two lanes of traffic, as well as the sidewalk. They are chanting, "Re-Vote Ohio!"

11:30 AM — Rev. Jackson and the "March on Washington" demonstrators have arrived. Acknowledging the leadership of the Green Party and other patriotic Americans in the recount effort, Rev. Jackson said, "When it is really dark, a little light will do ya. You are that light."

11:10 AM — Speakers Michelle Tingling-Clemmons, Rev. Lennox Yearwood, and Asa Gordon have finished, and rapper Will B. is creating pandemonium as many of the people who rode buses in from Ohio have joined him onstage. The crowd is chanting O-Hi-O, and getting bigger by the minute.

10:35 AM — Rep. Maxine Waters and Green party and Code Pink activist Medea Benjamin have just finished speaking. Crowd is boisterous and enthusiastic. One sign reads: "This isn't my democracy unless you count my vote."
10:15 AM — California Senator Barbara Boxer has just announced that she will join Rep. Conyers and others to protest the Ohio Electoral votes. Hundreds wearing orange ribbons and ponchos gathering in Washington's Lafayette Park hear David Cobb and others speak. People coming from Baltimore as part of "March on Washington" have not yet arrived.

January 6, 2005

It's clear to me that the only election that the democrats will accept is one in which only democrats vote, only democrat votes are counted, and in which only democrats are elected. Sounds like a fair and accurate election to me... if you're Saddam Hussain.

I guess if it keeps them occupied I'm all for it. Yes yes yes power to the the people yall!

Does it strike anyone else as the least bit odd that Florida was the issue in 2000, but really hasn't even been mentioned this time around? Did the voting process in Florida get fixed between 2000 and 2004? Do the people raising hell about Ohio feel they accomplished their mission to revamp the process in Florida? They are, after all, the same people. So now their focus is on correcting the problems in Ohio. If it takes them another four years to achieve the same satisfying results I assume they must have in Florida, it will take them 200 years to get around to all of the states. Hmm... that would just take too long. Now I understand why, for two elections in a row, they have focused their efforts on the state that just happened to decide the election. It's a matter of time and resources. I'm sure they would dearly love to investigate and correct voting anamolies in all states, but gosh, they just don't have the resources. If it just so happens to appear to be a partisian effort to change the election results rather than fix the process, the rest of us are just being overly suspicious and cynical. There's no partisian politics here; they really are looking out for every voter. Especially those of us in Washington concerned about our Gubanatorial race. Now that the national elections are beyond contesting, I'm sure these people will focus their rightous indignation here and help the poor abused voters of Washington. I'll start holding my breath...

There is plenty here that I would be wasting my breath to reply to. Indeed, I've realized that reading the posts of some individuals here is a waste of time in itself. Paying voters with crack cocaine? Get real. Or at least get a legitimate source of information.

Having been a public servant, I can tell you that when the government pulls together statistics, it (at least it should) review those numbers and their source and calculations, etc. Even then, government numbers are often so big, and so important/significant, that afer initial publishing, they need to undergo additional review. If Chevron/Texaco were a public agency, then intead of publishing numbers once and moving on, they would be always constantly challenged to explain and improve their accounting systems. You folks in private industry would have a better appreciation for this if any citizen with a postage stamp, an envelope and a slip of paper could throw your entire staff into a multi-week public records review and report mode when they actually have other stuff they need to do. And you'd be frustrated if at the end of that process, someone with an agenda talked about your efforts as though you were lying, cheating and stealing. Washington State is looking into some questions raised. The votes have been carefully counted more than once. what has not been audited is the other number. The sum of "votes cast." You Fox News fans will need to make your conclusions right now, before any verified facts are available. And you'll want to try to make everyone think that public servants are crooks and lowlifes. In the meantime, some other folks are actually gathering the facts and looking into this with a sense of responsibility and objectivity. Stuff you probably are not aware of.

And finally, I have to break with tradition and agree with rrpjr for a change. In the olden days, I could find objective news sources. Just the facts, and I could use my own judgement to draw conclusions. There are very few news sources today that take this high road. Print media is always by far the best. TV news programs are pathetic today.

But I will also disagree with another thing, or at least point out what I see as a weakness. the Media Medievalism thing. I'm tired of gubmit bashing. Sure there are problems and in my view the administering agencies are not the bigggest problem. It is your elected officials that are acting irresponsibly. Anyway, blaming gubmit for crap like Fox News is disingenuous. In fact, blaming gubmit for anything as though gubmit is "them" is disingenuous. Some day, some of you are going to wake up and realize that government is necessary, it is a good concept, and government is "us." And just like I take responsibility when the folks I supervise screw up, so should we take responsibility when our elected representatives act in ways contrary to our best interest.

Well, if the liberals "fixing" of FL means that they'll fix Ohio the same way, then let's get moving! Bush won FL by a pretty decent margin, gained minority votes, etc. How about Cali or NY next? Let's get those places fixed up as well. Viva la Bush!

Shaun said:
"Reagan, Bush Sr., etc. those are people worth getting over, and easily, because they were good men, good Presidents in their own way.

What makes this so hard is seeing your president on TV and being embarassed to be an American."

Did you aquire this keen political insight from those 9 to 15 yr old girls?

If watching the president on TV bothers you there are 2 options, change channels or move. Maybe Michael, pass the fried chicken, Moore can help you decide.

Hey supe, do a search for "voter registration paid crack cocaine"

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041019/NEWS09/410190343
Liberal zealots don't want to look at _actual_ fraud and minipulation... no, it's more fun to chase conspiracies and invisible men. Go look for some UFO's with red-idiot.

bryan, your personal attack skills are as sharp as ever. I'm sure you're a good kid but, try being nice - it's easy.

Oh, he's just being a good Christian, at least from a Letters perspective.