Touche', Bryan. To some degree. I'll leave it at that. Touche'.

rrpjr, same. I agree that students should leave college with expanded minds. But I'm not sure this is what you'd get by indoctrinating them into your system of morality and patriotism (I'm taking this from your last paragraph). Instead, they leave college with such expanded minds that they have probably more questions than when they started, and they find certain answers disburbing. I don't think this indicates a closed mind. And I certainly don't think that inculcating them with a sense of security and contentment is either honest, or "free."

I am a liberal (you may have sensed this already), and an optimist. And a Christian. Go figure. I am deeply disturbed by much of what I see going on in my country, but to meet me you'd think I just heard a dozen funny jokes. I giggle all day. So, I don't think it's particularly honest to demonize liberals as being pessimists. Nor is it appropriate to throw stones at an education system because it fails to indoctrinate students into your way of thinking (blind patriotism, acceptance of a specific set of "morals").

Quite frankly, I think the indoctrination you are wishing for is indeed necessary to pertetuate some of the evils that our American society treats as holy grail. So, call me a pessimistic liberal if you must. I think many of the holy grail ideas in this society simply do not stand up to the intense scrutiny they are going to get in college campuses. Which explains why those places are liberal. It also explains why news organizations are liberal. It also explains why the rest of the developed countries of the world are liberal. It also explains why conservatives place such a premium on ignorance. Now, somebody'd going to call me a name for that, but look at what you guys are saying. You are saying that Bubba with his pickup truck and hunting dog understand the world better than Dr. Nelson, anthropology professor at XYZ University for the past thirty years. Your beliefs require a certain amount of ostrich behavior. Square-on competition between liberal thought and conservative thought does not go well for the person defending the conservative position. This can be repeated and is repeated daily on college campuses around the world. If Bubba hung out on university campuses for long enough, he'd pick up on this stuff too. Your party just has to hope this does not happen on a grand scale. Which is why education takes a back seat to both military, and commercial goals.

College has always been a haven for open social thinking and that is liberal in it's essence. I can only think of a fe places of higher education that are conservative (VMI, Oral Roberts Univ?, The Point et al.). By there nature, they are designed to be like this.

As far as the youth are concerned, remember when we were that age - the world had endless possabliities, we could do anything and evrything we believed and held dear was life or death serious. When I was that age I just couldn't believe that there wasn't more guys my age that were CEOs or Senetors. We had all the answers (some of us still do!)

I read an essay a while back that blasted youth for being arrogant, lazy, immoral, and totally worthless. The essay was written by Socrates. Go figuer...

the vivacity of youth is the ignorance of experience

Joy, not contentment. Liberalism, not Leftism. The free and fearless play of the open mind in defiance of the dogmas of the closed. Who ever called for a "system of morality and patriotism"? Did I? Good heavens. I just just cannot conceive that a truly liberal mind could graduate from a place of higher education in this country and not feel a kind of deep almost giddy affection for the freedom this country offers him or her. That is the joy I am talking about. The moral joy of being an American -- left, right or wrong.

Hmmm...and you live in L.A. too, where I find your observation to be on target as it is pervasive through many SoCal Democrats.

Personally I call them spoiled limousine liberals with whom I've lost all patience. I don't think they don't have a chance in '08 of being a legitimate party with the way they're pitching fits and beating their fists onto the floor. Maybe Dean will change things, but he's so radical, I don't see how the party can come to an agreement in the next three years.

Ya, he needs a Lieberman for balence (or maybe Prozac), what a ticket if frau Hillry ran with him!!!

Hilary's a joke. No one in their right mind would vote for that "Eva." Maybe except those 10 million-dollar-owning Upper Westside brownstone owners in NY, or the Escalade moms out here.

Please...

If Bill's getting noggin' in the WH, can you imagine what Hilary will get in the same office? :eek:

office or orifice?

Agreed, the woman scary. I would like to see it only for the joke potential and to see another 4 if not 8 years of Republican rule.

Agreed. I share your excitement and respect and legacy of the freedom our nation represents, or is intended to represent. In many ways, still, the greatest nation on Earth. And to the degree that my liberal friends fail to recognize that, then I depart from them.

But yeah, your posts seemed clearly to be suggesting that love of country is something that should be taught and learned in college, as well as moral stuff. And if your idea of freedom of ideas is to graduate a bunch of ROTC Cadets, then we disagree on that. Liberals are not doing the mind-numbing. Theirs are not the narrow ideas.