SUV rant
 

I rarely see suv bashing on this board. On the BMW message boards one can count on seeing a post per day practically re: the horrors of suvs. Maybe I've missed it here, or maybe Porsche drivers like suvs more than BMW drivers. Don't know. But, I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the suvs I dislike, it's the drivers.

I will quickly say that in some cases the suv is justified and the driver rational. I've spent a great deal of time out west, and suvs have their applications there. But here in Wisconsin, suvs are a pox on the highways. It snowed yesterday ("6") and, as usual, I could count on suvs blowing past me like I'm standing still on the slick highway. I find the typical Expedition pulling four snowmobiles especially troubling as on an icy highway it often becomes the tail wagging the dog and offroad (ironic) they go. Now here's a case when the suv actually makes sense-but the driver is an idiot.

My favorite suv story:

I was heading to the in-laws in my wife's bug one T-day. It was a glare ice highway and I just should have stayed home. My desire to see my kids and wife, who had gone ahead days before, over ruled better judgement. You could have ice skated on the highway the whole way-I ***** you not. Anyway, about half way there I have an Expedition right on my ars as I'm in the left lane going 50. Oh yeah! Normally that would piss me off too, but in this case the right lane was unplowed and certain death for the light, wide tired bug. The Ex driver didn't seem to figure that one out because after harrassing me for about a mile, she decided to pass on the right. Naturally as she passed, she gave me the international sign of affection and sped on her way inspite of me being a dumb a*s-I estimate about 70.

It's not hard to guess the ending of my story. Yes. There she was sideways in the median about two miles up. Somehow she had managed to deploy her airbag. There was also a cop sitting right there. He must have seen the whole thing. I'm guessing that she got a ticket on top of a mouthful of talc. Too bad:).

You can tell when it snows here by my heightened contempt for suv drivers. Yesterday one managed to get out of control and kill the driver in the oncoming lane here. A*s-hole suv killer driver got out without a scratch.

Thats OK - many are illegal on many roads, due to weight. I posted a nice article from salon.com about it a while back here on the OT board.

Well...........................uh.........ok

Sebring--bravo. I can agree with your rant regarding blaming the drivers and not the vehicles themselves.

The most idiotic posts I read are often "Ban SUVs" or similar. The SUV is an inanimate object, the method of it's utilization is entirely up to whomever is behind the wheel. As with every vehicle type, brand, make, etc. there are good drivers and bad drivers comprising the owner demographic.

That said- I would LOVE a 79 Wagoneer:). I grew up in those. If I ever do manage to get one, I promise not only to drive carefully like one should do in ANY vehicle, but to never drive on salty roadways. I would use it to launch my boat mostly.

Just drove home last night on an icy highway(5-1/2 hours), very tense the whole way. Accidents all over! I saw only three that police had not arrived at yet and at two of those a Hummer H2 had already stopped to help the people out of the median/whatever (the third happened in my rearview and I simply could not turn around). Anyway, I could not help but hope the guys being pulled out of the median were SUV haters:)

I also like the Range Rover and the Toyota Landcruiser. But, for me, living in Wisconsin-which is a whole LOT like the best parts of Michigan, there's no need for the high center of gravity and poor mileage. Do you ever go off road with your Range Rover? Intentionally?:)

Maybe Michigan drivers are exempt, but here, a large percentage of vehicles I see in the ditch are suvs. Like I said-it's not the cars as much as the drivers. Suvs give many a false sense of security on slippery roads. THAT is the dangerous part. I commute 30 miles into Milwaukee daily. If it's snowing, I'll see an suv in the ditch. Guaranteed.

My dad says the same thing about Volvo drivers, that they believe the hype and see themselves as invincible..

I have taken my RR places no car could go on several occasions. I was not driving it yesterday though:( I was in my Toyota Tundra 4X4 and I tell ya what it is not even close to the RR in foul weather prowess. In 2WD I could not accelerate without spinning the rears! It was real bad and they shut the highway down about an hour from home:( FWIW I bet I saw 20-30 vehicle in the ditch and not one was an SUV. Alot of 2wd P/U's (a couple 4x4's), cars and minivans. I stayed mostly in the right lane and could not believe the morons(in cars) passing me in the left(unkept) lane at high speed.

Bottom line for me: I cannot begrudge someone for wanting a safe and capable vehicle to transport their family/self in, especially when conditions like last night are common.

Again we agree on the concept. We just disagree on the vehicle.

I have to laugh at that one. Isn't the Volvo hype that they're safe in a crash? I would hate to test that one:).

Yes I do agree with you on part of your point.
However "The SUV is an inanimate object" is part of the problem. It is a high profile object that has large blind spots and blocks your own scan anytime it's near you. It has a high center of gravity and because it is a truck it handles poorly. Statically in major accidents SUVs kill the occupants of 2nd car involved. But also in single car accidents SUV drivers are most likely to be killed themselves in roll over accidents.

Now as far as demographics I would say the section of drivers that were driving a compact and now have a large SUV would be least familiar with the size and handling woes of the big SUV. As is stereotypical now add a family a VCR and couple of TV screens and the distractions start to accumulate.

My concern is when this decade of SUVs are replaced by newer SUVs will we see the older oversize SUVs driven by 16 year old first time drivers? That is a dangerous demographic to combine with the SUV accident statistics.

Once again--it would come down to the driver. My older sister's first car was a 1983 Suburban, my brother had a 1979 Jeep Wagoneer as his first car--I had the same Wagoneer as my very first car. None us us were involved in negligent accidents--although my sister took her driver's test in the Suburban, and my brother and I took ours in Grand Wagoneers.

Driver education is the key.

True, it does come down to the driver. You certainly may be qualified to judge the young drivers you ride with.
Regarding young drivers across the country statistics based on demographics or vehicle type used by actuaries are how these issues are judged.

Do you guys agree that Driver's Ed. should take place in the snow as well as dry? I hate SUV's for most of the reasons listed by others. Not the vehicles, but the driver's that think they are invincible or "bigger than life". My wife has a Blazer that she loves and I hate. She likes to be up high. She is in no way a danger to anyone when she drives. She drives VERY conservatively. I, too am passed many times a day by huge SUV's pulling trailers going sometimes 80-85 MPH.
I firmly believe that education is the key to safer drivers.

Sorry about blowing buy you in the left lane but I was in a hurry to get home. ;) I was quite suprised by the number of cars off the road yesterday, between Dundee and Brighton I probably saw 25 cars in the ditch. Maybe 5 were suv's or trucks. On the plus side 4HI works great ib my Ford F-150, I still think the general tires are crap but I was pleased with the performance.

I do not like playing folow the leader on icy roads, I will not drive with in groups of other cars. I drove us-23 in the left lane all the way it was the only way to have the road to my self.

Every year in the summer I drive from here (Central Illinois) up to the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. About a 9 hour drive straight north. In the middle of the drive, I inevitably encounter Chicago drivers heading to their summer homes in Wisconsin. Every year, I see about a dozen boats that have fallen off or flipped while on their trailers. One year, we hit a patch of driving rain so bad that I couldn't tell where the road was. I litterally had to stop where I was and put on the hazards because I had no idea where the shoulder was and didn't want to find out by driving into the ditch. I Rain-X my windows compulsively, and we couldn't see the end of the hood... Guess what came flying past me?

That being said, the vast majority of people driving SUVs understand their vehicles' limitations, especially when towing trailers.

Not to co-opt the rant, but my big pet peeve has always been BMW drivers. Driving in Chicago, I think I have been tailgated, cut-off, and nearly hit by more BMWs than any other make of car. Driving from Bloomington to Chicago one summer day, I clearly recall going 95 and passing a line of semis. A glance in my rear view mirror and there is a red car a good stretch back. A second glance and I have a 3-series almost in my back seat. Not only could I not see his headlights, but I could clearly see the profanities he was mouthing at me. I figured anyone who drives such a performance vehicle must appreciate the acceration, handling and braking. Since he had demonstrated the first two, it was in my opinion time to experience the third. I hit my brake pedal, hard. I watched the guy fishtail and swerve in my rear view mirror and finally regain control. I moved over to the right lane after I was past the semis. He didn't tailgate me again and sheepishly stayed behind me (far back) the rest of the trip. Probably not something I will ever do again.

I was on 131 coming back from Suttons Bay, late so traffic was lighter I'm sure. I too hate "lines", they lead to pileups. When I would get in a line I would left-lane-it till I had clearish road. I refuse to be on, or have someone on my, ass in those conditions. I don't have a problem with someone in a capable vehicle riding the ungroomed left lane, but sedans and hatchbacks is a whole nother enchalata:) The ditches were lttered with them.
They cause the accidents when the slush pulls them into the other lane.

I remember heading up to Searchmont in Canada years ago to do some skiing. We were up in the UP and our tires started spinning at 65mph on clear highway, black ice indeed! It's unreal at times.

Lendaddy - The snow must get thick up there.

Here along the relatively mild Atlantic coast it the SUVs in the ditches. The first snow last winter, I drove the length of the Jersey Turnpike - about 20 accidents - 2/3rds were SUVs & pick-ups. Smashed up, over-turned and spun into guardrails. Maybe its lack of practice, I dont know..

SUVs are a joke - 80% of those that drive them would be better off in a car or minivan - one day we will look back and laugh at them like Caddy fins and AM Pacers..

I just borrowed my father in law Yukon today in the snowstorm. I have to admit it was the first time I was driving a big SUV and I was feeling quite insecure because I dont like to sit so high. What bothered me the most is that you feel so disconnected from the outside world; you can barely hear the engine and dont feel it at all when the rear wheels are spinning. I almost made a spin because of that.
I switched to my FWD Volvo and it was a lot safer at the same speed. Or maybe I was just going slower :confused:

For real. I drive a 911 daily to work and race my other 911 on weekends. I have an F250 I tow with and drive on rainy days. Driving the F250 daily would do nothing to improve me as a driver. Everything on these trucks is designed to insulate the driver from the fact you are controlling a big, tall and heavy crappy handling truck. Take a freeway sweeper at normal speeds and try to keep the suspension set and loaded for the length of the corner. The steering is too light the high CG allows the suspension to take a set then when it hits a bump the suspension quickly unloads and then the entire truck rocks right to left. All the while you are rocking and bouncing in the seat trying to get the suspension to take a set again. This can happen numerous times in one long turn, why even try. Fact is most people that drive lack the drivers training to even know what weight transfer means, and in an SUV there is a relentless amount of uncontrollable weight transfer.

My wife and I were in Chicago over the weekend attending both the Auto & RV/camper shows. We started for home on I-90 about 11:30 Sunday morning. The roads became a little tricky starting around the Janesville area. 20 to 30 miles north of Madison there were three vehicles in the ditch over a length of about 1.5 miles. Two cars and a minivan.

And thinking back, the only memorably stupid acts I saw, while driving Chicago, were committed by cars. One moron in a Lincoln was a real standout. But, hey...I don't hate every fata$$ businessman I see driving a Lincoln.

My wife and I have no familial obligations to consider when buying vehicles. So we buy what supports our lifestyle or we feel like buying. I say drive whatever makes your monkey dance!

For us, it's trucks and sportscars. I suppose if I had to drive Milwaukee daily like Sebring77 I'd get a real car, but here in the bluffs of La Crosse, we really like trucks and suv's.SmileWavy

we have plenty of rollover accidents here in SoCal. Almost every one I've seen has been an SUV. Sure, the driver's likely an idiot, but if they were in a wagon odds are they'd still have the rubber side down.

I was on a LA freeway last year and passed over a chunk of concrete - the Porsche behind me nailed it and was messed up :) I saw a Datsun 260Z roll over on the I15 a couple weeks ago. That was strange.

The flaw in posting on such a topic here is obvious-you all are not the "average" driver. I submit that as Porsche owners and drivers you know your way around all of the vehicles you own. Therefore you know, as Len stated, that it's idiotic to exceed the limits of your suv should you own one. I also exempt trucks from this rant as they have always been what they are-work vehicles meant to haul things(yes-I'm aware of the 4 foot box truck and the like, but you know what I mean).

My point is that most drivers do not know their vehicles at all. They proceed blithely to whatever destination they are headed disconnected from the road and blissfully ignorant. Suvs exacerbate that scenario ultimately to disasterous consequences more often than a typical car or minivan.

For what it's worth, I would rather encounter any of you driving an suv vs most drivers handed the keys to a 911.

Hey, I come from a logging town and I accept that big 4WD rigs are necessary for some stuff. But here in Seattle, the main reasons for driving one seem to be visibility, safety and interior room.

Visibility - Yeah, it's nice to be above everyone. But that puts every one below you. I think the top of the cab of the largest SUV's must be something like seven feet in the air. With a lift kit and bigger tires, I imagine that can be eight feet. Still, we are Americans, and if the contest has moved to vehicle height, I imagine there will be nine-footers, then ten-footers, then......... In the meantime, myself and others who wish to be reasonable in the size category (If size matters, and you're happy with your penis, then smaller is probably better), can see approximately twenty feet in heavy traffic. This is the part I hate. I will do anything to not be right behind a HUGE personal vehicle. I cannot see.

Safety - These things' bumpers are right at about teeth-level for the rest of us. I wonder if I even need to say more. Yeah, that might be safer for the SUV driver, but is this the kind of contest we want to encourage?

Interior room - This makes sense when you've got the whole family on the way to a camping trip. Otherwise this is just not a justification. by the way, most of the world's families......can carry all their possessions on their backs.

What about this justification:

I like them, I have the money, and I want one.

oooh another anti SUV thread....

When I am in my WRX or on the bike, those damn 18 wheelers are right at teeth level. Can't we do anything to ban them?

Someday we will all fly around in tubes, like on Futurama, then these threads will be reeeallly boring...

That is all the justification which I feel obligated to provide.:)

I was very hesitant to buy a big pickup truck when my '85 S10 crapped out because of how much I despise the visual roadblocks that tall trucks/SUVs are--especially when I'm driving the 944. The practicality in light of our current and planned home rennovations won out though. I just try not to drive like an @$$hole and let smaller cars past (as I know they can't see past me).

My big pet peeve lately has been people talking on their cell phones--regardless of vehicle. The main road in our town is six lanes with a speed limit of 45mph. Innevitably, every day as I am driving down the road, someone is talking on their cell phone and doing 35 or less.

A real energy crisis - like $5 - $7 per gallon gas and these things would be wiped out faster than brontosaurs after the asteroid.. Just a matter of time...

Unlike suvs-18 wheelers have a legitimate purpose. Therefore, no comparison.

Don't worry-I'll start a thread entitled "Tube rant-why doesn't everybody just teleport?"

no problem Sebring, I hope you caught the tongue in cheek nature of my post...

naturally:)