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Im a second year mechanical engineer at University of California at Irvine. Im learning a lot, but I think my school is too theoretical. The material is really interesting (right now Im taking dynamics, materials, and a class on line integrals). I'll tell you how a degree helps in 3 years :)
I think I have an unfair advantage on my classmates because Ive been working on cars for a good 10 years, but I wont complain. I think having real experience helps a lot in what we're doing, but I know if I took a couple of years off to wrench on cars and went back I'd forget how to integrate... SO right now I'm a 19 year old second year on a five year plan. |
It used to scare me that some of the aerospace and mechanical engineers I knew didn't even know how to work on their own cars.
If you can't work on a reasonably complex machine I don't think you should plan on helping to make any either. |
“They'll never outsource CEO's or CFO's......
”No wonder I never rocketed-up the advancement ladder....I keep asking questions like, "....how come it's OK to get cheap engineers from India....but all our CEO's are all stateside? I'm *sure* we can find a CEO from Calcutta that'll work for only 40X an engineer's salary instead of the US-average of 200X.." ”Then the meeting gets quiet......” Wil, you have a way with words. Best, Grady |
Well I am a Chem E but through my career I have done something relating to just about all of the diciplines. Frankly, I would look where the entry level jobs are that interest you are and major in that. Once you get some time in the field, you can move around to the other ones. I have been a Chemical Plant Process Engineer, Environemental Engineer/Manager, Semiconductor Facility Engineer, and a consultant. Throughout these positions, I have designed , installed, started up and operated complex systems or all sorts. Right now I work for an Air National Guard Civil Engineering Squadron and have to say this job is a heck of a lot of fun. I am still finding things to do that I never dreamed I would be doing when I graduated.
Besides, Chemical Enginners get to make the cool things that blow up or eat what the other engineers build! :D Steve, Follow your heart, it will take you to where you need to be. |
Steve, lots of good advice here.
I particularly like "follow your heart". I knew I was going to be an engineer when I was 10. Started as aerospace, then moved to mechanical, got a degree in math at the same time. My brother tried to follow, but he quickly found out it wasn't in him. It has to be in you. On degrees, I got as much as I could becasue I love learning, two BS, both elementary and secondary teaching credentials and a MS from Berkley in Combustion Engineering. And the interviewer was most impressed because I liked to work on cars. Got a job doing research on rocket propellants. Spent most of my years blowing things up to understand the physics of detonations for rocket propellants. Now, I am at the second to highest technical grade at Lockheed. Other side of the coin, my former supervisor 10 years ago has only a BS from Cal Poly. He is now VP on THAAD program. I would work for him on any project he asked, because it is really deep in him. Also worked for Pan AM as a coop student in college. I would recommend a year of airline work to anyone coming out of college. What fun. And then you travel. |
Just make sure the school is ABET accredited. . .and a "BSME" is plenty.
Well, BS has gotten me a long way. ;) hmmm . .. maybe I should start writing BSc. . .. |
I only glanced thru this topic, but one statement did catch my eye by Souk. And no, I didn't pick out this statement simply because Souk is a local friend of mine. It's very true:
"An engineering degree does not make you an engineer! You have to be an engineer at heart to be a good engineer...and you don't need an engineering degree to be a good engineer. Just because someone has PE after his/her name doesn't mean diddly. It's just passing a test. Those who produce good work that is clever, effective, practical, and so on, are those who are the true PEs. I don't claim to be a great engineer (civil) by any means. But I know a good one when I see one. Some of the plans I review for my municipality are ridiculous. It seems like some people simply want to get stuff on paper to get the job approved and get going on construction. Those guys who like to "wing it" in the field scare me. And yes, civil engineers are the ones you yell at when traffic backs-up, roads fall apart, your basement floods, bridges fall down (God forbid....), ........... etc. I don't know of many things civils do that the average Joe appreciates. It's not like computers or architecture that people woud marvel at their creation. Civil stuff is just there for the utility. |
Thanks all. I understand about a degree or PE not actually guarantying anything about the person's identity. In My field we have a very sought after certification. It requires a practical lab test that used to be 16 hours and is now 8 hours and that only comes after a written qualification exam. It's actually very difficult, and there are about 10000 in the world. But I have met my share of CCIE's and walked away wondering how they passed.
ABET, huh, I'll have to look that up. |
I am not an engineer, but I use them when it suits me. (joke, kinda) It looks to me like the ME and EE disciplines are more glamorous, but I might prefer civil engineering. With CE, mother nature is your foe, and she's going to win.....it's just a matter of time. And you build big stuff. Wind shear is significant and you have to consider what's going to happen if it gets hit by a fully loaded semi. Plus, you get to stand back and see (probably also drive over) what you've built. One of my colleagues is the chief engineer on the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Now that's something your grandkids can show your great grandkids.
Plus, like Vash says, there's a lot of CE work out there, and MUCH more to come when voters figure out that roads are built with tax money, evne if you do wish they were free. |
A pessimist says the glass is half empty.
An optimist says the glass is half full. An engineer says the glass is too big. |
n'nah. . .
An engineer says the glass has a safety factor of two. :p |
ME here too. I have had pretty good sucess with my automotive design career.
For me the most telling factor is what you did as a kid, were you always taking things apart to see how they worked and being unable to get them together again. Hey that is what school is for. I agree too that there are two types of engineers, those who work with their hands and those who have read all of the books. Ideally you want to cover both but school teaches where to find the answers you need, but the hands on part is either there os it is not. Good luck, I would encourage the ME but I am biased. Mike |
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i tell my girlfriend her hair is nice and parallel all the time. socatoa? foil? very funny. i will go even further back and bring up: my poor dear aunt sally......wait, how does it go? i was just solicited by a engineer to go and work in beijeng. if i was only more mobile...hmmmm. |
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Yeah, I think I've decided ME is the way for me. I've taken a few of the various personality tests over the years. The one that I found the most interesting was supposed to tell you what sort of job you were cut out for. My primary set me up as someone technical, engineer, etc, and my secondary said I liked to work with my hands, mechanic, carpenter, etc. The person administering the test said that often people pursued the first for their career and the second as their hobby, and that's exactly how my life is so far. I'm in a technical career, and for fun I work on cars and do home improvements and work outside with my hands. It sounds like ME would be the perfect marriage of those two. |
Tensors, eigenvecors and my favorite aerodynamics term, phugoid.
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Re: Professional Engineers and degrees:
Years ago, a big east coast manufacturer bid on a research job. THe prospective client asked for a copy of the credentials of the people that would be working on the project. He commented on the small number of advanced degrees, despite the fact the company had a reputation for being creative. The VP in charge of research told him "My people are doo damn busy innovating to be bothered with more formal schooling". And, within reason, I believe that. Too much ejudimacitaion solidifies the brain to off beat ideas. Observe children and their creativity with blocks or erector sets. That haven't been told yet that his or that is impossible. |
This place blows me away! I started my career in automotive repair school, then in to actual repair. I followed that with military (F-16 avionics). Now I'm out and have been considering school again, heavily leaning toward Mechanical engineering. So, I've been talking with the wife about it for a while......then here is just about everything I've had questions about right here.....good old Pelican Post!
I did have a question though. If I was to emphasize on aerodynamics what path would I take....still M.E. or something different altogether? |
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(way back, circa 1990) I considered an aero-degree (up here where Boeing once dominated) but for the three aero-grads i knew who had the hardest time finding work. . . that is, the vast majority of work that goes into a jet is NOT figuring the aerodynamics. There may be a bit of work there with scram-jet and engine-tech right now; but there is more need for materials and structures to optimse those craft. (IMO) . . and then systems, systems systems . .. all points to ME. |
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In CE, the road thing is kinda cool when you build from scratch. The un-fun stuff is rehabbing bad stuff. It's not the material work itself that's necessarily bad. It's dealing with the existing conditions like keeping roads open to use and all the staging that must be done. |
I'm glad I'm not the only one that has found this thread useful.
I started out at the Univ of South Florida in Tampa for EE for a couple of years, then quit and worked my way up to managing a retail auto parts store for about 3 years, then moved to Houston and bartended in topless bars for about 4.5 years. I then worked on a telephone help desk for Internet customers of Bell Atlantic for about 5 months and then changed to working with Cisco Systems routers and stuff and now have been doing that for the last 6 years. Now I'm going back to school. I probably will change careers after school to something in Engineering. I'm very excited by the proposition of all of this new learning. And will probably really enjoy the change of careers when that time comes. Variety is the spice of life. |
Wow Steve, not only do I live just a couple miles away from your old alma matter but I too took the engineering to IT and hopefully back to engineering path.
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And yeah, re-work is a PITA, compared to road building from scratch. Then again, road building from scratch, to be done right, takes quite a bit of material...to make a nice stable road prism. Too expensive. So then you're designing something with just a bit of crushed rock under it, that you know will crack and move. Upgrading an existing overpass is like repairing a watch while it's stull running. I'm on an airport modernization project ($3.7 billion), so this project has the added joys of TSA, FAA and, ummmm, aluminum tubes filled with people and kerosene...around construction equipment. I'm certainly in no danger of getting bored. |
I always felt sorry for the engineering students. They were the ones with books open during lunch. No time for partying. I think engineering deans would agree that engineering degrees should just be five years. Officially they're considered "four year degrees," but no one is really fooled.
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Not true, I partied hard and still got a 3.2 GPA.
Part of it was mastering studying and taking tests when stoned. When you can master an engineering concept while under the influence beating the curve is assured. :D |
When I started I was told that only 2% of the EE students got their EE in 4 years
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The engineering path is pretty well laid out at most schools, with good progession from easy to all-nighter-difficult courses! If you skip a step or fall behind it can be more difficult than it should be..but that's not always the case. Understanding that subsequent classes get harder, but builds on the prior semester's classes should help being an engineering student. Build good relationships with your fellow students and form study groups. Peer support makes understanding difficult concepts much easier!
I took 18-22 hrs/semester during my second degree and worked nights (partied on nights I didn't work), yet I still got a respectable GPA. I couldn't have done it w/o help from study groups! Stephen, I've read most of your posts here and on Rennlist, so I have no doubt that you will make a good engineering student and an even better engineer. You are probably a better engineer now (!) than half the engineers I know! You will do just fine, the best of luck to you! |
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:D |
A great engineer would chug the beer and use the can or bottle to fix what ever needs fixing :D effective and efficient!
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Steve,
Sounds like your interests lie more in the mechanical world. Just go for it in whatever way works. You are never too old to stop learning. I have an EE degree and enjoy what I do. I got drug into the software world (without much formal training) several years ago when my company needed someone to do command and data acquisition software. As it turned out I really enjoy it. Now it is mostly what I do. In my group I'm the interface guy because I understand the software and understand the hardware interfaces as well. I've learned a little about mechanical systems due to needing to control them and measure the responses. I guess I've learned some practical mechanics as well from working on these wonderful old cars. An old codger once told me "If you want to play with cool hardware, you better learn to write software." It works for me. Forget all that business software and database stuff. Forget the web stuff too. Give me interesting systems. I went on to get an MBA thinking I wanted to go into management.:rolleyes: When I had two classes left, I had seen enough of what my (then) boss had to put up with that I wanted to stay technical. I finished the degree, but try my best to stay out of management. If I had it to do over again I might try for a dual degree with EE and ME and a little CSE training. I'd take more ME classes just to be able to get involved with the Formula SAE stuff. Just find whatever interests you and go for it. Good luck and don't forget to post about intersting projects here on the board. Rob |
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It's hard, but the reward is there. As far as the party life, I went to a straight engineering school and I still can't remember the weekends! |
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I had a slight case of postus interruptus........ |
My input
First pecking orders in engineering is meaningless. When I was in school there was a belief that EE were on top and civil was on the bottom. When the aerospace collapse occurred the only work around was in civil engineering. Also in aerospace all the high paid stress and analysis engineers had a civil background. That is because the curriculum for civil engineering is more mathematical rather then applied engineering related. The type of engineering to get into should be based on what your desires are. Are you mechanically inclined or are you more logic orientated? If you want to apply this knowledge to Porsches you may want a mechanical degree. If you have a lot of background in computers you may want to lean toward an electrical degree with courses in machine control. But the degree means nothing in the real world. You won't learn true engineering until you work in it. That's taking a project from conception, to design, to final hardware. Learning the look at various solutions and understanding which is practical. You won't learn that in school but only in experience. I've worked with many great "engineers" that had no degree. So do you want a degree or engineering knowledge? I love airplanes and mechanisms. I have a mechanical degree. My forte' is in aircraft landing gears. That means I look at kinematics, hydraulics, strength, metallurgy and virtually any other aspects of mechanical sciences you can think of. It's the best of all engineering I think. |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 911/914gary
[B]My input . But the degree means nothing in the real world. You won't learn true engineering until you work in it. That's taking a project from conception, to design, to final hardware. Learning the look at various solutions and understanding which is practical. You won't learn that in school but only in experience. I've worked with many great "engineers" that had no degree. So do you want a degree or engineering knowledge? Coming from a non degreed engineer standpoint I can relate to that statement. I was lucky enough to work for some very good engineers when I was a technician. They were also good teachers. Experience is extremely important but the degree gives a person credentials, which in our society is unfortunately over-emphasized. However those credentials are the key to unlocking doors. If I were to be laid off today, I'm not sure if someone would hire me as an engineer. My company made me an engineer, but I lack those god awful credentials that say I am a capable engineer. Perhaps PE registration is a route I should take for career protection. |
Apllied Physics (with a minor in math) - covers the whole thing.
There is a huge need for Industrial Physists - they just don't know it. Forget the Engineering thing - I have an MS in ChemEng, learned more in 6mths in a pilot plant than 4yrs in school - nothing was applied and used more chemistry, math and physics then the chem eng stuff. As far as practical work experience - think PLASTICS, plenty of great paying interesting jobs in the polymer field. |
One thing about engineering as a profession is you are getting your education starting with your first day as a freshman. If you want to become a doctor it's four years to get a bachelors, then 4 years of med school plus 4 more years of training. Same with lawyers. It's four years for a bachelors then law school.
I'm an ME and I've worked in such exotic places as Mexico, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and New Jersey. It's always something new with engineering. As we constantly say, "we're always working ourselves out of a job." Once your project is finished, you need to build something else. I think engineers should get their PE licenses. I'm registered in four states and it comes in handy when you need to get on another project - or stay on a current project. Recently I was one of the last to leave a project I was on simply because I had a PE license in WA. |
Always thought the PE was for Civil Eng, projects with real world bottom line figuers help for sure even tech articles and giving talks at conferences seem to boost the resume.
Employers love engineers that are end-goal focused, able to think resourcefully out of the box and show savings with inexpensive innovation. The best engineers I ever had the pleasure of working with didn't have a college degree in engineering. |
I'm a Civil/Structural/P.E. and own a Forensic Engineering firm. I've got degrees in Civil Eng. and Mech. Design. I wouldn't trade what I do for anything, BUT ..... my favorite TV show comes to mind here: "Curb Your Enthusiasm". ;) I worked in the industry before and while going to school, so I knew what it was like out in the real world of engineering. I was excited to finally reach my Junior year and take all of those 'interesting' classes like Bridge Design, Design of Wood Structures, Steel Design, blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? They're all friggin' math classes - 90% theoretical, 10% practical. Mostly, no application to the real world. What the engineering degree is - as is the P.E. License - is simply a way to weed people out of the system. And that's fine. There has to be a way to keep the idiots out and this is the system we've come up with. You need to look at the Engineering Degree as simply part of the process. You need that sheepskin to move to the next part of the process.
I can't tell you how many 4.0GPA engineers I've interviewed over the years who are full of theoretical bull***** knowledge but couldn't figure out how to get themselves out of a cardboard box!! Common sense and practical knowledge are KING. The degree is just a membership card that gets you out on the dance floor. |
OK - here is an engineering question:
Your mouth and hands are bound, your feet are bound, you are put into a sturdy cardborad box. It is closed on all ends. The cardboard is such that it is very strong to impact, you can't kick your way out becuase the space is too cramped to move your legs order to develop enough force and they are bound together but there is some movement but it is slight. There is a very easy way to get out in less then 2 minutes - how would you do it? Feel free to ask questions prior to answering. |
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